Can you tell the difference between these definitions?

Author: Mopac

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#121
Goldtop
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@Mopac
You know the truth isn't in these God deniers because they can't even admit they are ever wrong.

You're the one making the vacuous claims, not us. We have nothing to be wrong about.
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#122
Mopac
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@Outplayz
I know what my God is, certainly. I know it is The Ultimate Reality. That is my God. 

There is nothing else to define. In fact, to even define God is doing God a disservice. God is what God is. Whatever The Ultimate Reality actually is, that is God. That is what I acknowledge as God.

My faith is in The Ultimate Reality, not knowledge.


Gnosticism is a heresy for good reason. There is a difference between having faith in The Truth and having faith in understanding.



#123
Outplayz
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@Mopac
My faith is in The Ultimate Reality, not knowledge.
Oh... right... I personally think knowledge and understanding the "ultimate reality" gets you closer to it and helps you even empathize with it (a thing lacking in many that have an imprisoned version of god)... but what do i know. I'm just a peasant that values knowledge and understanding. If you can't define your god then i have no interest in willful blind faith. To me, it's like finding a friend and not caring to know him/her.  

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#124
Mopac
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@Outplayz
There is plenty that can be known about God simply by contemplating what The Ultimate Reality means.

Know the difference between the created and the uncreated. The Ultimate Reality is not creation. It is not fabrication. Knowledge is a created thing. Knowledge is a good thing. True knowledge.


Not gnosis. Epignosis.


#125
Outplayz
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@Mopac
There is plenty that can be known about God simply by contemplating what The Ultimate Reality means.
What does The Ultimate Reality mean? 

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#126
Mopac
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@Outplayz
Ultimate

the best or most extreme of its kind


 a : basic, fundamental <the ultimatenature of things — A. N. Whitehead> 
b : original 1 <the ultimate source> 
c : incapable of further analysis, division, or separation

Reality
the quality or state of being real
something that is neither derivativenor dependent but exists necessarily

#127
disgusted
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@Mopac
So saith the word of god aka a dictionary.
#128
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@Mopac
the best or most extreme of its kind

Since there it only one reality, we have nothing to compare to hence we have no idea if this reality is the best or most extreme of it's kind. The dictionary keeps failing you, maybe you should give it up?
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#129
Mopac
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@Goldtop
Sounds like an admission that God exists to me.

There is only one reality. There is none to compare it to. It is the best reality because there is only one.




#130
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@Mopac
Sounds like an admission that God exists to me.
Or, a simple concept that shows you're wrong, that you didn't think it through, that you falsely use words you don't appear to understand, that you play games with those words in some vain attempt at preaching.

There is only one reality. There is none to compare it to. It is the best reality because there is only one.
So, you're saying you don't know the meaning of the word, "Best"?
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#131
Mopac
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@Goldtop
If there is only one, it is the best.


I understand you have a role to play which is why you can't admit God exists, but clearly even you know God exists.

And believe me, I feel very smug pointing this out.


#132
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@Mopac
If there is only one, it is the best.
So, you're confirming you don't know the meaning of the word, "Best". Gotcha.

I feel very smug pointing this out.

I'm actually baffled that I have to point out your elementary flaws.
#133
Outplayz
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@Mopac
So you just basically defined reality. However, how do you know this reality is the ultimate and only one? I believe there are multiple universes and that there are realities that are even more "ultimate" to this one. But since that isn't proven and only a hypothesis i'll only ask you this: What would it do to your definition of ultimate reality if there is more than one reality? 

Besides that... You basically just said that this reality is the ultimate one. Although i don't agree, i can't prove my suspicions so i'll just say okay this reality is the one and only. Great, so we got that. How does god fit into the definition of Ultimate Reality? The way you are definition it doesn't suppose any god. And if i were to add a god into it... it can literally be any god. 
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#134
Mopac
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@Outplayz
If there are "multiple universes" they exist within The Ultimate Reality.

I never said "this" reality, whatever that means, is The Ultimate Reality. I said whatever The Ultimate Reality is that is The Ultimate Reality.

If there is one reality, The Ultimate Reality would be it. If there are many realities, they exist vecause of The Ultimate Reality, and they have no existence apart from it.

The Ultimate Reality is God.




#135
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@Mopac
I said whatever The Ultimate Reality is that is The Ultimate Reality.

That doesn't clarify anything. It's like saying whatever a tree is, is a tree. You're talking in circles.

If there is one reality, The Ultimate Reality would be it. If there are many realities, they exist vecause of The Ultimate Reality, and they have no existence apart from it.

I see no reason to accept your ultimate reality is either indistinguishable from reality or can exist without it. Something more substantial than assertion is needed to move beyond this.

#136
Outplayz
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality is God.
Okay now that's a jump. I can agree with you that there could be an ultimate reality that encompasses all realities. Fine, i can follow that logic. I personally attribute this ultimate reality to a higher consciousness, but in doing so, i also know that it's a jump to do so... why is the jump logical in your opinion? 

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#137
Mopac
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@SkepticalOne

That doesn't clarify anything. It's like saying whatever a tree is, is a tree. You're talking in circles.


It really isn't the same thing. You already know what "The Ultimate Reality" means. If I were to tell you what it was, I would be making an identity fallacy. I would not actually be clarifying, I would be making further abstractions which would take away from what the concept actually points to.

So I trust you know what the concept means. If you really do understand, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why me trying to equate it with something else is foolish.

It Is That It Is.

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. Exactly what that means. That is the definition for the word "God".




I see no reason to accept your ultimate reality is either indistinguishable from reality or can exist without it. Something more substantial than assertion is needed to move beyond this.


It is for clarity sake. To distinguish that which is real in a contingent sense from that which is eternally real.


If something doesn't have reality, or doesn't in reality exist, it is is not real. I don't think that is an extraordinary. 


In fact, I am not making any extraordinary claims at all.

#138
SkepticalOne
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@Mopac
It Is That It Is
This is still a tautology, and no new information has been provided by the repetition. I remain in the dark about what this is meant to say.

To distinguish that which is real in a contingent sense from that which is eternally real.
I don't know that "eternal" is a meaningful descriptor in a literal sense. Without coherent terms, I have no idea if your claims are extraordinary or not because they are unintelligible.

#139
Stronn
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@Mopac
In fact, I am not making any extraordinary claims at all.
You are if you claim it this ultimate reality has intelligence, communicates with us, answers prayers, wants our worship, cares what we do, helped write one of our books, sent part of itself to us in human form, metes out punishment and reward, or is responsible for an afterlife. The existence of ultimate reality may not be an extraordinary claim in and of itself, but each of these is.

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#140
Mopac
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@Stronn
I didn't claim any of these things, so perhaps your excessive baggage is keeping you from accepting the obvious.

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#141
Mopac
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@Outplayz
@Stronn
The Ultimate Reality is God.

Not "What I think God is supposed to mean is The Ultimate Reality"




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#142
Mopac
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@SkepticalOne
It always amazes me when people pretend to not know what truth or reality means. If you don't believe in truth and reality, there is no amount of explaining on my part that will make things clear to you.


You have adopted the identity of the skeptic. I tell you that it takes just as much thought to believe something on hearing as it does to reject something on hearing.

I am not making a tautology. You are being obtuse.
#143
drafterman
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@Mopac
You do not argue from good faith. You assure that The Truth is not the same thing as the truth, yet whenever anyone asks you what the The Truth is, you claim they are talking about the truth.

If they are the same, then stop capitalizing it. If they aren't the same, then explain the difference.
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#144
Mopac
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@drafterman
I have far greater reason to question the honesty of people who hold a position that literally means that there is no truth, so I don't appreciate you trying to turn it around on me.

I mean exactly what I'm saying.
Most of the confusion here comes from people wishing I was saying something else.



#145
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@Mopac
I have far greater reason to question the honesty of people who hold a position that literally means that there is no truth
Except no one holds that position.

You keep claiming people hold that position, but only because of this dishonest switcharoo you keep doing with "Truth" and "truth."

If The Truth is nothing more than the truth, then sure, it exists, but I don't see why it should be called God, regardless of what the dictionary says.
If it means something more (as you claim), I'd like to know what it is.

But my rejection of your definitions and your premises doesn't mean I "hold the position that literally means that there is no truth" and it would be extremely dishonest for you to suggest otherwise.

Not that I suspect you are particularly concerned about honesty.

Or charity.
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#146
Mopac
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@drafterman
See OP

My assertion that those who deny the existence of God are in denail of truth is totally justified.

I am secure in my integrity.

And your rejection of the definitions is proof to me that you are an arbitrary person who simply wants to be right. You crap on top of thousands of years worth of discussion over this subject by doing what you do, and I find it disrespectful and asinine. 

How many people died to deliver this message, and what do your ilk do? Redefine language so that you can make that message unintelligible. Dismiss it.

But I don't believe tou know what you are doing. You can't, because if you really knew what you were doing, you would be a monster.

And that is my sincere belief. Sorry you don't think I'm honest.




#147
drafterman
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@Mopac
Is "The Truth" identical to "the truth"?

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#148
Mopac
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@drafterman
The Truth is a name of God so I capitalize it out of reverence.

It is the same reason I capitalize The Ultimate Reality.


I capitalize God because it means something different than god. I would, however, capitalize it anyway for the same reason I capitalize The Truth.

#149
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@Mopac
I didn't claim any of these things
Do you believe any of those things are true? 
#150
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@Mopac
Is "The Truth" identical to "the truth"?