Can you tell the difference between these definitions?

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#151
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@drafterman
Pardon me, yes.

When I say The Truth, I quite literally mean the truth.


And not like, "It is the truth that oranges are fruit"

I mean the truth as in, the very essence of what that means. The Truth. Not a truth, but the truth.

But to clarify even further, by the truth I specifically mean The Ultimate Reality. 


Or if the capitalization bugs you, the ultimate reality.



#152
drafterman
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@Mopac
I mean the truth as in, the very essence of what that means. 
What is that? What is the difference between The Truth and a truth?

But to clarify even further, by the truth I specifically mean The Ultimate Reality. 
That doesn't clarify anything, because when we started talking about what that means, you started talking about The Truth. It'd be nice if you could have a discussion without talking in circles.

Or if the capitalization bugs you,
Are you suggesting it doesn't matter?
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#153
Mopac
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@Stronn
What I believe is irrelevant, because you are debating against God, not me. Lets not make this about me.

The Ultimate Reality is God. Let that sink in. What that means.

People certainly believe a lot of things about God. Some of it may be true, some of it may not be true. If these claims about God are not true they in no way disprove God, because God is whatever is Ultimately Real and True.

There are a lot of ways that people conceptualize God. God is not a conception. 



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#154
Mopac
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@drafterman
You want some type of knowledge I can't give you, sorry. Perhaps you should get over your aversion to the unknown.

Maybe it would help if you contemplated what the words I'm telling you mean instead of taking them to be arbitrary and meaningless placeholders. I can't think for you. 





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@Mopac
You want some type of knowledge I can't give you, sorry. Perhaps you should get over your aversion to the unknown.
Wait... my desire for knowledge I don't have means... I have an aversion to knowledge I don't have?

Maybe it would help if you contemplated what the words I'm telling you mean instead of taking them to be arbitrary and meaningless placeholders. I can't think for you. 
You can, however, explain what you mean using simple and accessible language instead of hopping from one arbitrary and meaningless placeholder to another.

1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?
2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?
3. What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"
4. Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"
5. What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?
6. Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?
7. What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."
8. How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?

#156
Goldtop
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@Mopac
What I believe is irrelevant, because you are debating against God, not me. Lets not make this about me.
Then, please put God on the phone and you go away and preach elsewhere.

Hello God!? Are you there?? Can you hear me? Speak, say something dammit!!

*crickets*

#157
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@Mopac
So god is just reality and doesn't have any forms of consciousness? Bc that is what you are defining. If not... then by definition you are defining reality differently and that is a jump. 
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#158
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@Outplayz
I am not talking about god, I am talking about God.

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#159
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@drafterman
The realest truest most existiest reality there is.


Questions answered?

If not, me answering these questions won't help.You, after all, admit that the words I'm using are placeholders to you.
#160
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@Mopac
Does this God have any level of consciousness?
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#161
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@Outplayz
I wouldn't rule it out.

#162
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@Mopac
Then it is a jump... why do you think their is another form of consciousness other then human consciousness?
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#163
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@Outplayz
I made no jump, you just did.

Why do you think human consciousness is the only consciousness?

#164
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@Mopac
It always amazes me when people pretend to not know what truth or reality means. If you don't believe in truth and reality, there is no amount of explaining on my part that will make things clear to you.
I've told you I accept truth and reality, but I don't conflate this with god as you do. Saying this again after clarification might lead an objective observer to reasonably conclude you're being intentionally malicious towards me. Please do not misrepresent my position again.


You have adopted the identity of the skeptic. I tell you that it takes just as much thought to believe something on hearing as it does to reject something on hearing.

Skepticism is not about rejection rather critical evaluation. For instance, if your claim of the Ultimate Reality were able to stand against criticism, I could accept it. Skepticism keeps me from accepting that which is unsubstantiated, flawed, and/or plain B.S. Your claim is at least two of these.


I am not making a tautology. You are being obtuse

You are not only wrong, but mistaken as well. 🤣🤣
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#165
Mopac
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@SkepticalOne
The Ultimate Reality is God.

Whether or not you accept this, that is what the concept means.

The realest most existiest truest reality.

That is God.

What more do you want? 

 To say whatever is The Ultimate Reality is The Ultimate Reality is not a needless repetition, but the only way to make a true statement. Do you understand what that means? Then you know whatever it is, words only cheapen it. The God I am speaking of is not a fabrication, I cannot present you a fabrication and say that is God. 

It's a mystery, but it is certainly not a needless repetition, and for you to dismiss it as such is to not really get the subject matter. You have to understand that there is a certain absurdity that comes with using the medium of creation to express that which is fundamentally uncreated.

I'm not talking about knowledge, I'm talking about The Truth. The Truth is God.


Why don't you tell me what The Truth is? What do you consider to be The Absolute Truth? That is what YOU think God is.

Well, my faith is not in my understanding, but God, which is certainly above and beyond my understanding.










#166
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The realest truest most existiest reality there is.
Questions answered?

No. I don't know what that is. To me, reality is simply all of the matter and energy that make up the physical universe. "The Ultimate Reality" is more than that. I want to know what that "more" part is.

If not, me answering these questions won't help.You, after all, admit that the words I'm using are placeholders to you.
Uh, yeah, to me. Because I don't know what you mean by them. So I'm asking you. How can you answering these questions not help me in getting your answers to these questions? You're not making any sense.
#167
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@Mopac
Well, my faith is not in my understanding, but God, which is certainly above and beyond my understanding.

Ok. So I'm getting that you don't completely understand what you're arguing for. That's fine - that makes sense (unlike your argument). Perhaps you'll keep that in mind when you're about to put on your certainty hat again.
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#168
Mopac
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@SkepticalOne
I am very certain, and you could be too.

I am not preaching gnosticism. 


Knowing God is there is not the same thing as "knowing the mind of God" as it is sometimes put. I don't, after all, know how many germs are scurrying about on your left eyelid right now.

You say you believe in reality and truth. Believing God is not really a stretch from this, it is intrinsic from this. There is no truth or reality without true reality.


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#169
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@drafterman
It seems to me like you are demanding a miracle.
#170
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@Mopac
If you think it requires a miracle to plainly and simply explain your beliefs, then perhaps this is not the right line of work for you. I cannot plainly and simply explain how a car works and, lo and behold, I am not a mechanic.
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#171
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@drafterman
There is a limit to knowledge.

It is admirable to strive to find those limits for yourself.
#172
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@Mopac
It is less admirable to claim it is stupid to adhere to concepts you can't fully explain yourself.
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#173
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@drafterman
Knowledge without truth is vain.

#174
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@Mopac
Cool. While we're talking:

1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?
2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?
3. What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"
4. Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"
5. What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?
6. Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?
7. What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."
8. How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?

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#175
Mopac
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It doesn't matter how thoroughly I explain what I'm talking about, because this is fundamentally not an issue of understanding. It is a heart issue. What is the mystery surrounding what truth means? Reality?

How can I even make claims about ultimate reality when the very concept itself is rejected? It is not hard to accept that there is a reality as it truly is. A reality true independent of observation and postulation. The very foundation of all realities, the sustainer of all realities, and the reality that is not contingent on other realities to exist.

The Supreme Being

The Ultimate Reality

The Absolute Truth


If God doesn't exist, even these fabricated realities which are ultimately unreal cannot exist.


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#176
Mopac
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1. It is the difference between the uncreated and the created.
2. That which satisfies in total the essence of reality.
3. God
4. Because if you don't believe in this you don't really believe in reality at all.
5. God
6. Because this is what makes anything reality at all.
7. It is the determiner of all things. Nothing can overthrow it.
8. In the context of what I am saying, yes. Though in some contexts "The Truth" is used interchangeably with a truth, such as "I am telling you the truth". I am very specifically talking about The Supreme Being.







#177
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@Mopac
What is the mystery surrounding what truth means? Reality?
I know what truth and reality are. I do not know what The Truth and the Ultimate Reality are.

It is not hard to accept that there is a reality as it truly is. A reality true independent of observation and postulation.
I'm with you here. I believe in this! But, we're going off the dictionary, right? This is what the dictionary says:


I don't know what that is. Do you?

The very foundation of all realities, the sustainer of all realities, and the reality that is not contingent on other realities to exist.
Whoops! Lost me again. I'm only aware of one reality: the reality we occupy. I am not aware that it needs a foundation or sustainment or that it is contingent upon some other reality. This is where you're going to have to help me. Because I am not aware that any of that exists or needs to exist.

Q1: 1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?
A1: It is the difference between the uncreated and the created.
Huh? "Created" and "uncreated" are opposites. Are you saying that "Truth" and "truth" are opposites?

Q2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?
A2: That which satisfies in total the essence of reality.
What is "the total essence of reality?

Q3: What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"
A3: God

Q5: What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?
A5: God
I'm not asking what your call or label it, I'm asking what it is (without you going in circles). Telling me it's name doesn't tell me what it is.

Q4: Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"
A4: Because if you don't believe in this you don't really believe in reality at all.
Only if I accept the premise that reality depends on some "supreme, final, and fundamental power." I don't accept that premise. Why is that stupid?

Q6: Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?
A6: Because this is what makes anything reality at all.
How so?

Q7: What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."
A7: It is the determiner of all things. Nothing can overthrow it.
Ok, good.

Q8: How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?
A8: In the context of what I am saying, yes.
This helps, but there are two different questions here. Synonyms mean something similar, but not necessarily the exact same thing. So which is it. Are they similar or are they exact?
#178
Outplayz
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@Mopac
Fine maybe i should have said earthly consciousness to include all animals and critters. It is a jump to say there is anything beyond this world's conscious animals bc there is no proof of it... so we jump. Now i don't think consciousness is only here on earth, but this isn't about my belief. I'm wondering why you would think there is any beyond our earth. I mean, we can start out at Alien level then get to your god... but, i'd rather hear why you think there is a conscious god that is this Ultimate Reality. 

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#179
Mopac
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I'm only aware of one reality: the reality we occupy. I am not aware that it needs a foundation or sustainment or that it is contingent upon some other reality. This is where you're going to have to help me. Because I am not aware that any of that exists or needs to exist.


I think this really is at the core of your questions.

There is reality as it seems to be and reality as it truly is. When you say, "the reality that we occupy", that doesn't really tell me much. We certainly all live in God, but what you call reality may in fact be what reality seems to be to you. The reality that you know.

The reality we can understand is not the same thing as reality as it truly is, and the reality thst we understand comes from reality as it truly is. Otherwise, what are we understanding?

For there to be an understanding, there must be an abstraction process, that is, a taking away of information. When we understand things, we are not really holding on to the entire thing. It is impossible to hold on to the whole thing, the very act of knowing necessitates the highlighting of some information at the expense of other information. In fact, this is something that goes to our very senses even. The ear does not see the way an eye does. They extract different information from the source, and so the way they sense the world is completely alien from each other.

The source is God.

If you can understand what I am saying here, every single one of your questions will be addressed.



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#180
Mopac
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@Outplayz
I am not talking about god, I am talking about God.

The capitalization is not arbitrary.