Themeless Mafia 1 - Day Phase 1

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@coal
I don't know how to nest quotations 

Why do you think that? 

because I'm below people who haven't posted; oro wouldn't scum read me that hard without calling me scum; and I interpreted what he said as having just grabbed the names and threw them in. I realized later what he meant was that he put my name there but only realized I had posted later
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@sui_generis
I don't think Objectivity & Ragnar would be both scum AND both misread coal's post wherein he specifically admitted that he was only TEMPTED to read his role pm. I don't see cooperating on such a useless lie would benefit scum, and I don't see BOTH players misreading so carelessly as scum, though that's more on the presumption of skill than personal familiarity. 

Ragnar seems more genuine in his oblivion, and thus more town, between the two. 

its a pretty easy mistake to make but w/e bro
Danielle
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Hi! I noticed someone tagged me through my email. Work is crazy but I'm hoping they leave me alone at like 9pm tonight (EST) so I should be back then to read through the day phase. 
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Good enough for me. Unvote (in accordance with danielle).

I am confident she will post now that she is aware the game is up.. Airmax should be posting in the next hour or so as well. I texted him this morning to see if he knew the game was started, and he said he was aware of the game and that he would check it out after work. He should be getting on soon.

I still don't have any solid reads, though I do have some thoughts on the gameplay. Much of my thought processes are a bit back and forth on certain players.

Coal I am switching constantly between a scum read and a town read. Specifically I am trying to discern his personality from his game-play strategy. The part of his gameplay that slightly strikes me as scummy is the couple attempts he's made at pretending to reaction test. He said in post #63 he was attempting to "prod" me. I didn't get the feeling I was being prodded at all, unless he was referring to the part he said "let's see how long it takes TUF to suggest a mass claim", which was too non-sensical to take seriously. So his town read on me based on what I felt like was a very weak reaction test, seems a bit convoluted. Convoluted doesn't necessarily always mean scum, I've seen many a town make convoluted arguments for their reads just to not be suspected for not "doing enough".  Where I town read him is because he admitted to lying about not reading the OP. If he really is town, and not wanting to get caught up in a pointless argument that would just delay town this was the best course of action. Based on my remembrance of playing mafia with Coal I feel like he is more likely to double down and defend the lie ad nauseum. His motivation for honsety and not derailing the game seemed pro town. I may be investing too much credit to this, but I really really got strong town vibes from this action. So I am leaning more town than not, and I am attributing some of the minor scum tells I have on his as some of his personality quirks for now. Lastly he earlier said he didn't care much about DP1, and wouldn't start really trying until DP2, but seems pretty peeved with the inactivity, which demonstrates he does think there is value to be gained from DP1. Not sure what to make of this change of direction, I don't think it's a scum tell in and of itself though.

Zaradi- Trying to decide on him as well. His aggressive early inquisition (while mostly pointless and mostly self explanatory from what I've seen) seems like a genuine interest to provoke activity, which is pro town. But his line of questioning in both my case, and Oromagi's case doesn't seem to go anywhere, or demonstrate what he specifically thinks is scummy in either case. I'd say it feels a bit convoluted, but again, I am not in his head. Maybe he had a thought and the answers just satisfied that line of inquiry and he didn't feel the need to further the questioning. 

Oro- His activity so far is an improvement from what I've seen in other games. His behavior seems indicative of his town play, he seems genuinely interested in scum hunting. I can't remember if I have seen him play scum over the last year though, and I think I haven't or I would remember. His post 72 was definitely a coded claim, which he does in every game. Not even gonna attempt to decipher it, because in the past when I've tried I've been wrong. 

Sui and Objectivity have been pretty agreeable, I haven't seen anything that sticks out as scummy, which is kind of scummy by itself but I'm not gonna get in my head about that yet. 

Not sure what to think of ragnar. I will post more in a bit, I'm at work and there is an annoying beeping going off because the fire alarm company is working on the alarm, and It's giving me a headache and I am losing focus. Be back soon.
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Why wasn't I INVITED
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@Speedrace
Im guessing cuz lucky didnt know you and only had that one bullish game to judge Dart players on. But for the record I did tell him you were one of the people who took the game seriously 
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Official Vote Count

Danielle [2]: oromagi (80), coal (133),
airmax1227 [1]: Ragnar (114),
Objectivity [0]:
oromagi [0]:
coal [0]:
Zaradi [0]:
Lunatic [0]:
sui_generis [0]:
Ragnar [0]:

Not Voting [6]: airmax1227, Danielle, Objectivity, Zaradi (130), sui_generis (150), Lunatic (154),

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 7:10pm EST Friday, May 22nd.

Mod Note: airmax has been prodded. He has 12 hours to post before being replaced.
Lucky
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@coal
- Prods will be issued after 24 consecutive hours without posting. Prodded players will have 12 hours to post content in the thread before I look for a replacement.
- Prods will be issued through DebateArts' messaging system.

airmax1227
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sup yallz? How's it goin? Reading through the DP now
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Well this DP has been a whole lota nothing so far... without a theme this should be interesting since we wont have a lot to pressure for until we want roles. I do feel like saying though, that it is not scummy for me to be inactive during a work day during work hours... Yes I admit, I was working all day today and didn't post until now... inactivity to this point should mostly be a null read... Now that the work day is over I am home and currently writing this very post, which is mostly fluff cuz this whole DP is mostly fluff...

I've got a moderate town read on TUF, though I've misread him in the past but I think I know his game play pretty well... He'll remain a town read in my book until further notice

Coal has an eccentric, for a lack of a better term, DP1 style that has been consistent with town play I've seen from him in the past... from my recollection, which might be useless perhaps, he'd be a bit less on the radar with his scum meta... so I'm gona assume he's town for now...

Danielle is null since she's busy and hasn't posted much... I do believe she may be Batman, so her lack of inactivity until later is entirely understandable and laudable

I'm gona go ahead an OMGUS Sui and Ragnar for fun... pressuring me for inactivity due to employment is uncool... so they are on my scum list for, well, reasons
Lunatic
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Well we will see if Danielle's work calmed down enough for her to post now
Danielle
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I'm here. Skimmed the DP and was confused by the names being thrown out -- is Sui's list correct?


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@Danielle
Yeah everyones got their old names but me (TUF) and coal (YYW)
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@Danielle
yes
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@airmax1227
I wasn't pressuring you due to inactivity, but out of love 🥰
Danielle
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Who is orogami? 
Lunatic
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@Danielle
I think he is Levi smiles on DDO but I'm not sure if you played much with him on DDO if at all. I think most of his mafia activity happened here on DART

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@Lunatic
I concur.

UNVOTE

I would like to see more of Danielle and Max, though.  

As for thoughts on the DP generally, and particularly in response to your comments above, I don't think that DP1 is usually anything other than fairly disorganized noise in the moment it happens, but I think that when people have the least information they are most likely to reveal their motives and intentions -- even if those motives and intentions aren't clear until the next day phase.   I think also patterns tend to become clearer in actions and intentions as a player's DP1 actions are compared to their DP2 and DP3 actions.   So yes even if I think there isn't a lot of moving the ball forward right now, because it's hard to do that by the design of DP1, I still want to see baselines of activity so that there's something to compare to later in the game.  Without that, it is much harder to sort town from scum and it is also unfair to deny others the chance to do so; while in the same instance giving scum the chance to lurk peacefully and then make stuff up in subsequent day phases while they don't have to commit to anything.  

Getting early reads is important I think for that reason.  Maybe others have a different theory, but I think there's value in early reads even and especially if those reads are based on little activity.  I think the absence of a willingness to post reads is also important.  I also like to see what other people think about other people's reads DP1 even if, again, the reads aren't going to be based on much.  It is in this way that who has an informed perspective should become more clear as the game progresses, as well as who does not.  I think it's often easier to get scum by POE by picking out whose perspective isn't informed, and with a higher level of accuracy, than to look only for slips and other tells.  Make no mistake, I think those are important, but I think looking at the other side of that is important too.  The potential masons in this game make that a bit more complicated, but still that's my thinking on the issue.  So that's why I'm somewhat frustrated by not having a lot of communication here.  Communication helps me understand where people are coming from and why.  When I don't have communication I have to wonder what people are thinking and what their intentions are, and that means that I have a harder time what people are up to.  
Danielle
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Why couldn't people keep the same username -_- 

I was gonna OMGUS anyone who insisted my inactivity was scummy if they happened to be Facebook friends with me (especially Sui). In that case they'd know I haven't been online in a few days, so when I say I'm really busy at work, they'd likely know it's true. I also told Sui in particular via message that I was having trouble signing online days ago when he told me role PMs were out before the game even started, but he didn't mention my inactivity being fishy and the few people that did bring it up didn't seem to be pushing in a weird/aggressive way. It was fair with limited info to go on. If anything Ragnar's post voting for me felt a little weird. I'd be willing to pressure him or TUF, and since people seem to think TUF leans town I assume pressuring Ragnar is a safer bet. Thoughts? 


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@airmax1227
Please post a list of your reads on all the players.  The OMGUSing thing, I assume, was a joke?  Please post actual reads so far.  

Here is a list you can work from: 

Danielle
airmax1227
Objectivity
oromagi
coal 
Zaradi 
Lunatic 
sui_generis 
Ragnar 

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@coal
Explain why you voted for Zaradi but he wasn't your strongest scum read.  
I find plausible the explanation Oro gave—Zaradi WAS lowest on his scum list, if it's true that after posting the list but before voting, he realized I HAD posted, and thus shouldn't be on the bottom of his activity list.

though… that would imply that he didn't realize Zaradi was more active than Danielle… which is a weird thing

Do you buy his argument that he was setting up the VTL of Oro before I VTL'd Oro? Please explain. 

Please elaborate more on your thoughts on Oro. 
#87 is sus af, so, no: I don't. it seems like a weird post-hoc explanation. it makes sense as a line of inquiry, because Oro's actions are a bit confusing (makes sense since Oro claims to have been confused) but as a contrived line of questioning, no, it doesn't make sense as I'm reading it 

please explain your reasoning for #90 / what it means—why would the chronology of Oro's reads matter to Zaradi's pressure play? 


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@Danielle
Do you actually agree with my town read on TUF?  If so, do you agree with my reasons or do you have other reasons?  Do you disagree with my reasons?  Please explain.  If you have a basis to pressure TUF please indicate it.  

What is your read on Airmax? 

What is your read on me? 
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@coal
#168 
I fully agree with this, and we should not finish the phase until a bit into the 4th day. (we shouldn't get greedy tho because inevitably we'll come to an impasse we can't resolve in time and get a stupid no lynch
sui_generis
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how do I tag post numbers (#173) 
Danielle
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@Barney
Oh nvm. Ragnar didn't vote for me - he said he was looking to avoid accidents so he wouldn't vote for me. Thanks? I don't think I was that close but yeah, good move. 

The only townish read I have right now is Zaradi which is odd since I usually find him hard to read. 

@coal, you seem townish I guess but I don't get why you read TUF town. He is notoriously hard for me to read, but nothing he's said so far jumps out as town to me. 

I'd be willing to pressure Airmax, but I don't know if I have a good reason other than POE. Sui reads kinda town to me. So does Objectivity. 
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@Danielle
#169

I also favor pressure on Ragnar

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@Danielle
#175

can you say more about your read on Zaradi? 

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@Danielle
Why couldn't people keep the same username -_- 
You're the only person on DDO who got a username change from theLwerd, but i would have changed my name to Lunatic years ago otherwise. It's my screen name for everything. 
Danielle
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I'd like to pressure Ragnar, oromagi, Lunatic or Airmax. Everyone else seems townish atm. Ragnar's post directed at me seemed weird. Oromagi's posts felt weird too, but I don't know who he is or how he plays. 

@Sui - I don't know how to directly respond to your last post, but re: Zaradi, the post where he mocked Objectivity for being neutral in his assessment felt town (and it was also an accurate criticism - Obectivity IS being very middle of the road, though it's a bit early to determine if it's too intentional). 
Danielle
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Gonna VTL Ragnar before I step away for a bit.