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@ethang5
PGA2.0 wroteThey were passed down from generation to generation until Moses, who wrote under the inspiration of God about these accounts.
God inspired then?
Jesus is Lord?
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@PGA2.0
They were passed down from generation to generation until Moses, who wrote under the inspiration of God about these accounts.
Moses' father-in-law is named as Jethro in most stories, but in others he is named Reuel. One would have thought that of all the things Moses knew , one would have been the name of his wife's father.
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@ethang5
Hey PGA2.0, you were born a Christian! Your posts here are a testament to that.Should we alert the Pope?
By all means necessary, ethang5! (^8
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@Goldtop
I used to be one.Lol. I seriously doubt you were ever an atheist especially when considering that fact you don't even know what an atheist is or how they think. Your posts here are a testament to that fact.
Of course, you do!
Why would I expect any other thought, having known me all my life?
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@PGA2.0
A brain is the physical housing of the mind. The mind contains the inner qualities of a person, of what makes them who they are. A brain has a physical shape, a mind does not. You can physically touch a brain, you cannot a mind. Mental properties, such as concepts (i.e., the concept of twoness) are not physical in nature. The concept of goodness is not physical in its nature. You can't grab hold of goodness or twoness or logic for that matter. The laws of identity are not physical in nature, yet you could not make sense of anything without engaging/using them. Grab hold of a good idea or smell twoness for me. You can't because they are not physical in nature. There is a difference between physical/quantitative things and abstract/qualitative values, just like there is a difference between a brain and a mind.
So if you don't have a brain that means you don't have a mind?
In order to have a mind you need to have a brain, right?
Do people in a coma have a mind?
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@PGA2.0
You ask:
The question becomes what are you questioning as not factual evidence?
I reply the bible and you mewl about assertions and insinuations and claim I refuse to have a discussion.
Your bible is not factual evidence, you know this and are therefore bereft of any intelligent rebuff.
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@ethang5
News flash. No-one is born christian. No-one is born believing the fairy tales contained in the bible, they need to be indoctrinated into the belief.
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@Paul
A brain is the physical housing of the mind. The mind contains the inner qualities of a person, of what makes them who they are. A brain has a physical shape, a mind does not. You can physically touch a brain, you cannot a mind. Mental properties, such as concepts (i.e., the concept of twoness) are not physical in nature. The concept of goodness is not physical in its nature. You can't grab hold of goodness or twoness or logic for that matter. The laws of identity are not physical in nature, yet you could not make sense of anything without engaging/using them. Grab hold of a good idea or smell twoness for me. You can't because they are not physical in nature. There is a difference between physical/quantitative things and abstract/qualitative values, just like there is a difference between a brain and a mind.So if you don't have a brain that means you don't have a mind?In order to have a mind you need to have a brain, right?Do people in a coma have a mind?
In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brain and you are dead physically.
Do you think all you are is a physical being?
Do you think all you are is a physical being?
As for your question on comas, I'm not a medical expert. I don't know much about comas. Maybe you could inform me of your take?
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@disgusted
You ask:The question becomes what are you questioning as not factual evidence?I reply the bible and you mewl about assertions and insinuations and claim I refuse to have a discussion.Your bible is not factual evidence, you know this and are therefore bereft of any intelligent rebuff.
Then we are wasting each others time.
Why would you engage with someone who is bereft of any intelligence? What does that say about you?
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@PGA2.0
>>ahem<<
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@PGA2.0
Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. Don't be thangs surrogate, he gets ban hammered. LOL
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@PGA2.0
In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brain and you are dead physically.Do you think all you are is a physical being?
This physical existence is all there is, your unsupportable wishful thinking that there is a spiritual world is equivalent to a world of dragons and warrior trees. Adults should have the courage to face their fears and not hide their fears behind a claimed belief in fairy tales.
To the question above, no. I know that's all I am. The process that produced the dinosaurs and every other creature to have ever existed on this planet is the exact same process that produced me. Do all of us have this non physical form that you pacify yourself with and if not why not we are all just lifeforms that evolved on this planet. Very scary (for you) isn't it?
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@PGA2.0
I seriously doubt you were ever an atheist...
News flash. No-one is born christian.
Houston, we may have a problem.....
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@ethang5
I seriously doubt you were ever an atheist...News flash. No-one is born christian.Houston, we may have a problem.....
Contradictions galore.
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@PGA2.0
Then, the soul does not keep us alive? It has nothing to do with life?In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brain and you are dead physically.
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@Goldtop
In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brain and you are dead physically.Then, the soul does not keep us alive? It has nothing to do with life?
You think that all you are is physical. Your soul and spirit live on after your mortal body dies. Believe it or not. There is a difference between physical death and spiritual death, as I explained to Stephen on one of the threads he created. If you chose not to believe it then it is your business between you and God.
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@PGA2.0
You think that all you are is physical
Nothing has ever been shown to exist beyond the physical.
Your soul and spirit live on after your mortal body dies.
You nor anyone can demonstrate that, that belief is just an ancient superstition.
. If you chose not to believe it then it is your business between you and God.
And you have to be continually reminded that God isn't here talking about this, you are, they are your words, God did not speak or write them. that is all you. So, have a backbone and take responsibility for your words. I know that's very difficult for a Christian to do.
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@PGA2.0
The process that produced the dinosaurs and every other creature to have ever existed on this planet is the exact same process that produced me. Do all of us have this non physical form that you pacify yourself with and if not why not we are all just lifeforms that evolved on this planet. Very scary (for you) isn't it?
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@Goldtop
You think that all you are is physicalNothing has ever been shown to exist beyond the physical.
Are the laws of logic physical and do they exist?
Your soul and spirit live on after your mortal body dies.You nor anyone can demonstrate that, that belief is just an ancient superstition.
And you nor anyone else can demonstrate that you are just a physical being, nor that death is the end of you.
I can give good reasons that Christianity is relevant for today.
. If you chose not to believe it then it is your business between you and God.And you have to be continually reminded that [1] God isn't here talking about this, you are, they are your words, [2] God did not speak or write them. that is all you. So, have a backbone and take responsibility for your words. I know that's very difficult for a Christian to do.
[1] God speaks via His word, which has been written down for our benefit.
[2] God is not a physical Being. He used human beings to communicate about Himself to other human beings. He gave witness to Himself during their migration from Egypt to the Promised Land, through various prophets and teachers, then through His Son, who became a human being and also bears witness.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.
Regarding the witness of Jesus Christ:
John 5:36-37, 39
[ Witness of Works ] But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
[ Witness of the Father ] And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
[ Witness of the Scripture ] You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am
going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.
This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
There are serious consequences for those who die without repenting, for they continually have made God out to be a liar during their life's.
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@disgusted
[1] The process that produced the dinosaurs and every other creature to have ever existed on this planet is the exact same process that produced me. [2] Do all of us have this non physical form that you pacify yourself with and if not why not we are all just lifeforms that evolved on this planet. Very scary (for you) isn't it?
[1] Sure, that process is God.
[2] God tells us (via Genesis 1:27) that we, as humans have been made in His image and likeness. Since God is Spirit that image is not physical in nature. He tells us that we, as humans, are made differently from the animals. Psalms ask what is a man that God is mindful of him? God communicates to humans using logic and reason.
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@PGA2.0
[1] The process that produced the dinosaurs and every other creature to have ever existed on this planet is the exact same process that produced me. [2] Do all of us have this non physical form that you pacify yourself with and if not why not we are all just lifeforms that evolved on this planet. Very scary (for you) isn't it?[1] Sure, that process is God.
Let's stick with verifiable facts shall we? No gods have ever been proven to exist or been proven to have done anything. All the creatures on Earth are the result of evolution, that's a proven fact.
You fail.
[2] God tells us (via Genesis 1:27) that we, as humans have been made in His image and likeness. Since God is Spirit that image is not physical in nature. He tells us that we, as humans, are made differently from the animals. Psalms ask what is a man that God is mindful of him? God communicates to humans using logic and reason.
An ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savage created the fictional story you reference, see above there are no gods to tell you anything. As I said let's stick to verifiable facts as I have.
You fail.
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@PGA2.0
Are the laws of logic physical and do they exist?
They exist as concepts in the mind, just like your God.
And you nor anyone else can demonstrate that you are just a physical being, nor that death is the end of you.
Wrong, both of those can be demonstrated. Physical things can be demonstrated, death can be demonstrated. No oe can demonstrate that death isn't the end.
I can give good reasons that Christianity is relevant for today.
Feel free.
[1] God speaks via His word, which has been written down for our benefit.
Sorry, the Bible was written by men, there is no evidence for the word of God. Anyone can lie and say God spoke or inspired them.
[2] God is not a physical Being. He used human beings to communicate about Himself to other human beings. He gave witness to Himself during their migration from Egypt to the Promised Land, through various prophets and teachers, then through His Son, who became a human being and also bears witness.
First you say God is not a physical Being then go on to say how he communicates and becomes a physical being. Contradict much?
There are serious consequences for those who die without repenting, for they continually have made God out to be a liar during their life's.
God can't be a liar if he never said anything, the liars are the men who follow God.
What does god's larynx look like? As a spirit how does that work?
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@disgusted
[1] The process that produced the dinosaurs and every other creature to have ever existed on this planet is the exact same process that produced me. [2] Do all of us have this non physical form that you pacify yourself with and if not why not we are all just lifeforms that evolved on this planet. Very scary (for you) isn't it?[1] Sure, that process is God.Let's stick with verifiable facts shall we? No gods have ever been proven to exist or been proven to have done anything. All the creatures on Earth are the result of evolution, that's a proven fact.You fail.
Can you verify that your facts are true to the origins of the universe or life, or are they just one interpretation among many that via as the facts?
We are discussing the reasonableness and logic of two worldviews, one atheistic or agnostic, the other theistic. Which is the more reasonable to believe? How do we derive meaning from the universe? We trace that reason back to the RATIONAL CAUSE. You don't have a rational cause for the universe. If the evolutionary worldview were true we would just be the product of the laws of physics. The question then becomes how do the derive laws from blind indifferent chance happenstance??? You jump to a massive conclusion that we can yet you can't explain it. It goes to the point I have been making all along. You need a necessary Being to make sense of anything ultimately. When I start unpacking what your beliefs rest upon there is no sense that can be made from these starting points. Not so with God.
[2] God tells us (via Genesis 1:27) that we, as humans have been made in His image and likeness. Since God is Spirit that image is not physical in nature. He tells us that we, as humans, are made differently from the animals. Psalms ask what is a man that God is mindful of him? God communicates to humans using logic and reason.An ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savage created the fictional story you reference, see above there are no gods to tell you anything. As I said let's stick to verifiable facts as I have.You fail.
Here we go again, the same old tired worn talking points mantra - "ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age" goat herders.
I laid down some verifiable facts. Besides SkepticalOne, I am still waiting for someone to engage in them and dispute them. All I hear is Silence, which is oxymoronic, like the SOUND of silence. There is no sound in silence.
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@Goldtop
Are the laws of logic physical and do they exist?They exist as concepts in the mind, just like your God.
Does that make them physical? If so, let me touch one and see how much it weighs and feels like.
Thus, you must account for how something that is not physical can exist in a purely physical universe.
And you nor anyone else can demonstrate that you are just a physical being, nor that death is the end of you.
Wrong, both of those can be demonstrated. Physical things can be demonstrated, death can be demonstrated. No oe can demonstrate that death isn't the end.
I can give good reasons that Christianity is relevant for today.Feel free.
Simple, it gives the grounding for reason and morality. It makes sense of them. I have invited you and other to do just that. I'm waiting...
The reasons I use I have laid out in Post 182 and 191 on the subject of prophecy.
[1] God speaks via His word, which has been written down for our benefit.Sorry, the Bible was written by men, there is no evidence for the word of God. Anyone can lie and say God spoke or inspired them.
There are all kinds of evidence. I'm waiting for you and others to engage in it. You are all like broken records with your mantra, "There is no evidence." What a load of bunk.
I wasted a number of posts on the prophecy thread laying down the evidence and only ONE person made any effort to dispute it. How is that for reasonable??? Instead, all I get is assertion after assertion.
[2] God is not a physical Being. He used human beings to communicate about Himself to other human beings. He gave witness to Himself during their migration from Egypt to the Promised Land, through various prophets and teachers, then through His Son, who became a human being and also bears witness.First you say God is not a physical Being then go on to say how he communicates and becomes a physical being. Contradict much?
No, you read into my words something I never said. I believe that in the Person of Jesus are two natures, His human nature (physical) and His godly nature (Spiritual). When the Son became a human being He laid aside(did not use) His godly attributes because He became incarnate to live the life of a human that no other human being had been able to live - a COMPLETELY righteous life before God.
There are serious consequences for those who die without repenting, for they continually have made God out to be a liar during their life's.God can't be a liar if he never said anything, the liars are the men who follow God.
Then you have nothing to worry about, do you? Why are you even concerned about a discussion on God in a meaningless universe? Who cares? In such a universe, devoid of God, why should I care? As an atheist, I would just live and do whatever I can get away with because there is no ultimate justice. Ultimately, I would not have to defend myself against the injustice I have done because there is no justice.
BUT, if you are wrong, then you have everything to worry about, don't you?
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@PGA2.0
What does god's larynx look like? As a spirit how does that work?
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@PGA2.0
We are discussing the reasonableness and logic of two worldviews
No we aren't we are discussing verifiable facts versus fairy tales written by ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savages. I support the former you claim to believe the latter. Who recorded the events in the GoE, no one because it's just a story concocted to put a religious spin on the origin of man. Evolution and the story itself shows it for the fairy tale it is.
You laid down some opinions of stories written in an ancient book of fiction, that is not facts.
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@disgusted
How would a Spirit have a larynx?What does god's larynx look like? As a spirit how does that work?
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@disgusted
We are discussing the reasonableness and logic of two worldviewsNo we aren't we are discussing verifiable facts versus fairy tales written by ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savages. I support the former you claim to believe the latter. Who recorded the events in the GoE, no one because it's just a story concocted to put a religious spin on the origin of man. Evolution and the story itself shows it for the fairy tale it is.You laid down some opinions of stories written in an ancient book of fiction, that is not facts.
Believe whatever you will. This discussion is going nowhere.
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@PGA2.0
How does something talk without one?