-->
@disgusted
How do you understand my written words? I did not use my larynx in communicating my thoughts.How does something talk without one?
Jesus is Lord?
Posts
Total:
251
-->
@PGA2.0
This discussion is going nowhere.
That's because you refuse to recognise reality and maintain your belief in fairy tales even when you know they are untrue.
-->
@PGA2.0
So your god used a computer and the internet to communicate? WOW. BTW you're not talking.
This discussion is going nowhere.That's because you refuse to recognise reality and maintain your belief in fairy tales even when you know they are untrue.
I don't see what you believe as real regarding origins and I get tired of a nowhere discussion.
-->
@disgusted
You are not serious, I hope?So your god used a computer and the internet to communicate? WOW. BTW you're not talking.
God uses the written form to reveal and communicate Himself to us, via the Bible. He was heard audiably when He communicated to some.
Snakes do not have a larynx either. Eve credits the snake as speaking to her.
-->
@PGA2.0
Thus proving that the story itself proves it is a fiction. Well done.
Your god was heard audibly then he must have used MAGIC sans a larynx.
-->
@PGA2.0
In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brainand you are dead physically.
Do you think all youare is a physical being?
As for your questionon comas, I'm not a medical expert. I don't know much about comas.Maybe you could inform me of your take?
So what you aresaying is that your mind and your soul are the same thing?
No I'm not sayingthat all I am is a physical being, I am other things too.
You are in luck, Ihave been in a coma so I can tell you what it's like, I didn'texperience anything. When I woke up I thought it was the same day asthe accident that put me into the coma. I couldn't believe that I hadbeen in a coma for five days.
-->
@Paul
In this physical existence, yes, you need a brain. Remove the brainand you are dead physically.Do you think all youare is a physical being?As for your questionon comas, I'm not a medical expert. I don't know much about comas.Maybe you could inform me of your take?So what you are saying is that your mind and your soul are the same thing?No I'm not saying that all I am is a physical being, I am other things too.You are in luck, I have been in a coma so I can tell you what it's like, I didn't experience anything. When I woke up I thought it was the same day asthe accident that put me into the coma. I couldn't believe that I had been in a coma for five days.
I have lost consciousness and it is like I never was, but then I came to. What does that have to do with death and the afterlife? Are you saying it is the same experience? Are you suggesting that we, on this side, can know? Are you saying that those who have been declared clinically dead and have spoken of the afterlife are deceived?
-->
@PGA2.0
I don't think it has anything to do with the after life.
Why so defensive all of a sudden?
-->
@Paul
I don't think it has anything to do with the after life.Why so defensive all of a sudden?
I was just trying to find out if you were making an analogy between the two.
-->
@PGA2.0
An analogy between mind and soul?
That would be impossible, you know that you have a mind.
-->
@Paul
What is a mind? Is it the same thing as a brain? Or is there a difference between the two?
The Christian worldview says there is a difference. It says that we are a duel or triune being as human being in the sense that we are body and soul/mind, or body, soul, and spirit.
-->
@PGA2.0
On this side of what?Are you suggesting that we, on this side, can know?
-->
@disgusted
Are you suggesting that we, on this side, can know?On this side of what?
You are alive, right? You are on this side of death, right? Have you experienced death yet?
If you have not then how can you be sure of what happens? You assume.
-->
@PGA2.0
Life concludes with death, over 3 billion yrs of evidence attests to it in opposition to that you have a claim made by ignorant superstitious savages, you lose.
-->
@PGA2.0
What is a mind? Is it the same thing as a brain? Or is there a difference between the two?The Christian worldview says there is a difference. It says that we are a duel or triune being as human being in the sense that we are body and soul/mind, or body, soul, and spirit.
-->
@PGA2.0
Would you say that a computer is like a brain and your mind is like the software running on a computer?
-->
@Paul
What is a mind? Is it the same thing as a brain? Or is there a difference between the two?The Christian worldview says there is a difference. It says that we are a duel or triune being as human being in the sense that we are body and soul/mind, or body, soul, and spirit.Well, to have a mind you need a properly functioning human brain, they are not two separate things.The Christian worldview? Why are you trying to involve religion again?
Same reason you use a secular worldview under the guise of science. If God is true then your view is false is the crux of the matter. The study of origins is not normal science (but scientism) because you can't repeat the event. Judging from your comment, you seem to think that there is a dichotomy between science and faith. I look for the reasons of science in Christianity. The reason is not that the Bible is a science book, that is not its intent, but because God is Creator, so He understands every aspect of creation. Just as you presuppose naturalism is the cause of all we see, I presuppose God with good reason. I think ideas have consequences and the Enlightenment, then Darwinism changed the paradigm away from the Creator as the reason to man as the measure. Yet, the branches of science were founded largely by Christians and deists looking at the wonders of God's creation and trying to think His thoughts after Him.
Is it your view that all we are is empirical/physical/material beings, made up entirely of matter (physicalism)?
You say the brain and the mind is the same thing. So answer me this; How does consciousness evolve from matter? I never experience a rock that thinks. I don't experience a rock or tree that is rational, or conscious. J.P. Moreland (Scaling the Secular City, A Defense of Christianity, pp. 77-103), identifies these and many more problems with strict physicalism. You see, the laws of logic are non-physical, abstract entities. You can't grab hold of or taste the Law of Non-contradiction, but without logic, you could not communicate or make sense of anything. When I say 'two' it brings to mind a concept of a couple of objects. Twoness is not dependent on you for its existence, just like the concept (p. 81) is not a physical thing. Twoness/the number two represents a physical reality, yet it is not physical. Same with colours. Pick up for me the colour green. It is not physical. It is an abstract descriptive device we use to express a specific hue. The same applies to values. Grab hold of goodness, grab hold of the number two/twoness, or the colour green, or the laws of logic, or the concepts of truth. Logic, the colour green, values, truth, and the concept of two exist apart from you. They don't depend on you, or your brain, or any other human being for there existence. If you think otherwise, then identify the individual human being that they depend upon. They are not physical; they are abstract. If you think they are physical then was two or twoness ever anything other than what it is and show me it using your five senses? Properties and concepts are not physical, yet can be in the mind. How would that be so if we are nothing but physical?
Moreland notes (p. 79) that some things are properties and others are substances. Twoness is a property. It is a universal, not a particular. It can be in more than one place at the same time. Do you know of a material object that can, like a tree or a person? So right away you have a problem with physicalism. It is not all there is.
Moreland notes (p. 79) that some things are properties and others are substances. Twoness is a property. It is a universal, not a particular. It can be in more than one place at the same time. Do you know of a material object that can, like a tree or a person? So right away you have a problem with physicalism. It is not all there is.
In a strictly physical/empirical universe, why are there properties that are not physical?
A substance, like a brain, a person, a tree, is different from a property, as Moreland notes in four different ways. A substance is particular in that it can only be in one place at a time. A substance can change, whereas a property like twoness remains the same. It can acquire or lose properties, such as green as it changes, but it is the same substance (i.e., a tree and its leaves). A substance is itself and it has causal power. A property does not (p. 78).
So, as Moreland notes, "if two things are identical, then whatever is true of the one is true of the other, since in reality only one thing is being discussed. However, if something is true of the one thing which is not true of the other, then they are two things and not one." (p. 83) So "if something is true of the mind which is not true of some part or state of the body, then the mind is not identical to the body and physicalism is false." (p. 83)
I'm out of time and have to complete some errands but one last question:
Do you believe we are determined by our genetic make-up?
-->
@PGA2.0
It's not a secular worldview it's a fact, no brain no mind. We can observe it, we can test it and we can even experience it. Anybody that has had anesthesia for an operation or been in a coma experiences it. It's a common every day thing in real life. You want to sprinkle your religious nonsense over the commonly known thing that is called unconsciousness and it's not required.
-->
@Paul
So Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost are all the same thing?
I would add the devil, too. Although, Jesus was too perfect that his devil was virtually nonexistent, according to the bible.
-->
@Paul
It's not a secular worldview it's a fact, no brain no mind. We can observe it, we can test it and we can even experience it. Anybody that has had anesthesia for an operation or been in a coma experiences it. It's a common every day thing in real life. You want to sprinkle your religious nonsense over the commonly known thing that is called unconsciousness and it's not required.
Then you have it settled, don't you, Paul!
-->
@IlDiavolo
They put way to much devil in it.
-->
@Paul
Jesus being Lord means He is in charge. I asked Him to be in charge of my life, and take the lead. I am so glad He did that for me.
-->
@Sitara
So jesus and god are the same thing?
-->
@PGA2.0
Then you have it settled, don't you, Paul!
-->
@Paul
Then you have it settled, don't you, Paul!Philosophers have been arguing about dualism for some time, it's not what I'd call settled.
When you start with humanity as the measure you start with subjectivity. It boils down to the highest subjective authority you can find and appeal to and how much you think they really know (or you as that authority since it boils down to your decision in the end).
With the biblical God, Christians place their faith in Him as the highest authority. Just like you, they start with a presupposition on origins. They also accept His existence. Through Him, they make sense of origins. I do not believe you can do that when you start apart from Him. I have tried. I've tested other worldviews as to their sensibility for a large part of my Christian life and faith.
-->
@PGA2.0
That is simply untrue, you place your faith in the ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savages that wrote the books.With the biblical God, Christians place their faith in Him as the highest authority
-->
@disgusted
With the biblical God, Christians place their faith in Him as the highest authorityThat is simply untrue, you place your faith in the ignorant, primitive, superstitious bronze/iron age savages that wrote the books.
Find someone else to dialog with. You have proven you have an agenda and you are not interested in a fair exchange. All you are interested in is insulting my personal belief and me personally. You did the same thing on DDO.
-->
@PGA2.0
From your experience of being unconscious was it unpleasant while you were unconscious?
-->
@Paul
As I said, during that period on the journey to the hospital, it was like I never existed, then I was revived on the way, before passing out again. But during operations (i.e., broke my wrist a month ago), I have experienced the same feelings of not remembering or being cognizant of anything until being brought to consciousness again.From your experience of being unconscious was it unpleasant while you were unconscious?