I'm Pro Life: Change my Mind

#391

ebuc

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ebuc

11.22.2019 08:14PM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Furthermore, these indecent immorals need to try sticking their nose into a street fight ---where it has no business being--- and see what the results to their nose are in those circumstances. OUCH!

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Facts:

Egg { X } is live biological organism of the woman.

Spermoza { X or y } is live biological organism of the male who gives his sperm to the female.

Combination of spermoza with egg equals an biological living oganism of ---and attached to-- the pregnant woman, until,

.....1} birth of fetus as baby only and,

.....2} disconnect of the umbilical cord.

The less complex male cannot, nor ever will be a womb-an irrespective of sexual transitions.

The more complex female and most complex pregnant woman are the most complex biological organisms of Universe.

Topic's author

#392

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.22.2019 11:48PM

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@ebuc

You were pretty incoherent, but what I got is that you think life starts the moment a baby is born. This is simply not true.

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#393

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.22.2019 11:52PM

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@zedvictor4

Life- "The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter"

In science, the organism created is referred to as a life.

And why should life in humans be any different to life in other forms?

I believe humans have moral intrinsic value much more than any other being. Animal rights or whatever you are trying to bring up here is a different discussion and irrelevant.

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#394

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.22.2019 11:56PM

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@dustryder

According to my logic I have no problems with any sort of killing of human beings as long as a sufficient reason is given

The majority of reasons, including the ones you cited, had nothing to do with a women's health or changing their body. It was purely economic or convenience. What would you deem a "sufficient reason?"

<br>

Apart from this question being contingent on a flawed definition of viability

This is the most used definition by pro-choicers and was straight from wikipedia.

#395

dustryder

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dustryder

11.23.2019 01:44AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

The majority of reasons, including the ones you cited, had nothing to do with a women's health or changing their body. It was purely economic or convenience. What would you deem a "sufficient reason?"

<br>

Those are reasons why abortion should not be controlled as opposed to reasons why abortions are requested. You'll note that bodily autonomy does not also feature in that list and yet it is a significant reason for pro-choice arguments.

Any reason given that is readily accepted by society at large is sufficient to me

This is the most used definition by pro-choicers and was straight from wikipedia.

I don't believe you could possibly argue that this definition is actually the one most used. Apart from this and regardless of where it came from, it clearly does not convey the meaningful differences between fetal viability and viability as used by you in the general sense and is hence flawed. The definitions I sourced from wikipedia clearly convey the differences

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#396

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 02:01AM

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@dustryder

Any reason given that is readily accepted by society at large is sufficient to me

Ad-populum fallacy. Just because it is popular does not make it morally right.

#397

dustryder

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dustryder

11.23.2019 02:37AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

How is moral rightness determined?

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#398

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 03:38AM

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@dustryder

Eh, that's a difficult question. There are pretty widely accepted moral standards, and I would say anti-murder would be one of them. When it comes to abortion, most people are not educated on what they are killing. I like to think of these questions logically and to justify the positions. My question would be at what point point or reasoning does the women get to murder another human being? Morally, this is, and logically.

#399

dustryder

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11.23.2019 05:01AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

But being widely accepted does not imply that they are morally right, right? Because this would be another example of ad populum. So essentially what you've said is that there are plenty of accepted moral standands, murder is one of them. But this doesn't tell me if they are morally right or not so we're back to square one.

#400

zedvictor4

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11.23.2019 05:22AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

There goes that old "belief" word again.

Some might argue that such single minded "belief" is as about as immoral as it get's.

Belief is simply picking and choosing the bits that correspond with your own personal level of conditioning.

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#401

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 06:48AM

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@zedvictor4

What are you even saying?

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#402

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 06:52AM

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@dustryder

I said "Just because its popular does not make it morally right"

It is widely agreed upon that murder is wrong. I think we agree on that. My point is people are not fully educated on what they are killing and what is going on during abortion. If we agree murder is wrong, we are trying to logically follow under which circumstances we can murder a human being in the womb. Where do you draw the line? If you stick a knife through a baby's chest outside the womb its 1st degree murder, but if its inside the womb we call it a human right. Why aren't you against murder inside the womb?

#403

dustryder

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dustryder

11.23.2019 07:36AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

It is widely agreed upon that murder is wrong. I think we agree on that.

Which is a popular opinion. We can't actually determine whether murder is actually morally right or wrong based upon popular opinion by your argument right?

My point is people are not fully educated on what they are killing and what is going on during abortion.

That's certainly a dubious claim coming from someone who was unaware of the hormonal changes a women experiences during pregnancy. How is someone to take your point of view seriously when you seem to lack a general understanding of pregnancy and dismiss serious pregnancy concerns as "conveniences"?

If we agree murder is wrong, we are trying to logically follow under which circumstances we can murder a human being in the womb.
Why aren't you against murder inside the womb?

You're using the wrong terminology. Murder is a legal term to describe unlawful killing. So essentially what you're asking me is why am I against the law. The problem here being that since we're arguing over what the law should be, you've presupposed that it is murder in the first place.

#404

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

11.23.2019 08:03AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

You have acquired and stored data in a particular way. (As do we all)

And consequently you attach tags to certain bits of data that you regard as belief.

You "believed" that you could differentiate between one life and another.

Therefore, given your stance in this discussion, it is only fair that others with different "belief" variants, should regard your position as somewhat hypocritical.

As it would seem that your "beliefs" allow you to be selectively moral.

#405

ebuc

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ebuc

11.23.2019 02:36PM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

You were pretty incoherent

Your ego creating mental blockages to truth sad ;--(

but what I got is that you think life starts the moment a baby is born.

More of you ego creating your usual false narrative. Sad :--(

You indecent immorals need to try sticking younose into a street fight ---where it has no business being--- and see what the results to their nose are in those circumstances. OUCH! Your nose will then become incoherent and you will be sad :--(.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Facts:

Egg { X } is live biological organism of the woman.

Spermoza { X or y } is live biological organism of the male who gives his sperm to the female.

Combination of spermoza with egg equals an biological living oganism of ---and attached to-- the pregnant woman, until,

.....1} birth of fetus as baby only and,

.....2} disconnect of the umbilical cord.

The less complex male cannot, nor ever will be a womb-an irrespective of sexual transitions.

The more complex female and most complex pregnant woman are the most complex biological organisms of Universe.

Topic's author

#406

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 09:18PM

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@zedvictor4

I literally have no idea what you are saying. You could just say what you mean in a coherent sentence, instead of philosophically written paragraph. Just say it directly bro.

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#407

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 09:21PM

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@ebuc

Your ego creating mental blockages to truth sad ;--(

Not being able to understand what someone else is saying has nothing to do with ego.

More of you ego creating your usual false narrative. Sad :--(

Nothing to do with ego. That is what I got from your response. Simply re-typing your response will generate the same consensus from me. If you want to clarify or correct my position, then do so. Just explain what you mean or when you think life starts in a short sentence. WOW! Now I understand your position.

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#408

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 09:25PM

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@dustryder

Enough with the semantics. Shall we use "kill" instead of "murder?" Ok, thank you.

Again, you have yet to answer my question and keep dodging it.

Logically, why can we kill a baby inside the womb, but can not outside the womb? If they are both human beings, then why aren't you against killing them in the womb? Where do you draw the line? Does a women's hormonal changes give them a right to kill a human being?

#409

dustryder

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dustryder

11.23.2019 09:33PM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

I'm not sure what you're misunderstanding about

According to my logic I have no problems with any sort of killing of human beings as long as a sufficient reason is given with respect to the moral constraints of society. I deem reasons for abortion sufficient and so everything else follows, yes?

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#410

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.23.2019 10:27PM

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@dustryder

So you have no self-morals? All your morals are based on society?

What would you consider sufficient reason? Would you consider hormonal changes a sufficient reason to kill a human being? Where do you draw the line?

#411

dustryder

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dustryder

11.23.2019 11:11PM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

So you have no self-morals? All your morals are based on society?

Everyone has their own personal blend of morals which are derived from society among other factors

What would you consider sufficient reason?

Already answered

Would you consider hormonal changes a sufficient reason to kill a human being?

No

Where do you draw the line?

"I have no problems with any sort of killing of human beings as long as a sufficient reason is given with respect to the moral constraints of society."

Topic's author

#412

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 12:01AM

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@dustryder

So then where do you draw the line as to what a sufficient reason is?

#413

disgusted

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disgusted

11.24.2019 02:31AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

What is your position regarding miscarriages?

#414

dustryder

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dustryder

11.24.2019 03:39AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

I don't. All abortion cases involve the right to bodily autonomy and hence this is automatically a sufficient reason for me

#415

bmdrocks21

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11.24.2019 03:45AM

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@dustryder

You guys are still going at it?

Just do a debate at this point.

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#416

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 04:54AM

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@dustryder

Just to be clear...you think a women's bodily autonomy "rights" give them them the right to kill another human being?

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#417

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 04:55AM

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@bmdrocks21

Debates are too tryhard and most people use definition semantics and stuff. I think forums are more productive.

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#418

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 04:57AM

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@disgusted

Miscarriages are completely different from abortions. Miscarriages, the women does not choose whether to kill the baby. Unfortunately miscarriages happen, and it is very sad. In abortion, you choose to deliberately kill the baby.

#419

ebuc

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ebuc

11.24.2019 04:57AM

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Nothing to do with ego.

Your ego keeps you in denial of truth and facts. Sad :--(

If you want to clarify or correct my position, then do so. Just explain what you mean or when you think life starts in a short sentence. WOW! Now I understand your position.

You ego keeps you in denial of truth, facts and repeated creation f a false narrative, that, is just immoral and cowardly. Sad :--(

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You indecent immorals need to try sticking your nose into a street fight ---where it has no business being--- and see what the results to their nose are in those circumstances. OUCH! Your nose will then become incoherent and you will be sad :--(.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Facts:

Egg { X } is live biological organism of the woman.

Spermoza { X or y } is live biological organism of the male who gives his sperm to the female.

Combination of spermoza with egg equals an biological living oganism of ---and attached to-- the pregnant woman, until,

.....1} birth of fetus as baby only and,

.....2} disconnect of the umbilical cord.

The less complex male cannot, nor ever will be a womb-an irrespective of sexual transitions.

The more complex female and most complex pregnant woman are the most complex biological organisms of Universe.

Topic's author

#420

Our_Boat_is_Right

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Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 05:16AM

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@ebuc

Thank you for your input. When you come back again, I would hope you would try to be more productive.