I'm Pro Life: Change my Mind

#421

dustryder

Debates: 5

Posts: 1,080

3

2

4

dustryder

11.24.2019 05:25AM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 05:25AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

No. The right to bodily autonomy is the reason why abortion restrictions should not be a law. It's a subtle difference but a difference nonetheless even if the ultimate outcome is the same

Topic's author

#422

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 05:43AM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 05:43AM

-->

@dustryder

So it should not be illegal to kill a human being? You are ultimately giving them that right to kill another human being, just clarifying.

#423

dustryder

Debates: 5

Posts: 1,080

3

2

4

dustryder

11.24.2019 05:59AM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 05:59AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

So it should not be illegal to kill a human being? You are ultimately giving them that right to kill another human being, just clarifying.

In regards to abortion no. We've already been over this, but there are plenty of circumstances where it is permissible both legally and/or morally to kill another human being. For example, abortion, self-defence and euthanasia.

#424

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,071

3

6

zedvictor4

11.24.2019 06:09AM

3

6

11.24.2019 06:09AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

I'm just stating the obvious Bro.

You either refuse to discuss or cannot discuss relative issues that occur outside of your comfort zone.

Topic's author

#425

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 06:29AM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 06:29AM

-->

@dustryder

Self-defense you are saving your life. Euthanasia is morally dicey but in any case it is the person's decision to kill themselves. In abortion, you are forcing your will onto another human being. There is a difference between murder and killing.

Topic's author

#426

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 06:31AM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 06:31AM

-->

@zedvictor4

I would love to discuss, the problem is I don't know what you are trying to say. All I want for you to do is simplify what you mean so I don't have to try and decode it and misrepresent your position.

#427

disgusted

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,959

2

3

disgusted

11.24.2019 06:45AM

2

3

11.24.2019 06:45AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

Miscarriages are completely different from abortions.

In both cases there is a growth attached to a woman's body that is expelled. They are the same.

Miscarriages, the women does not choose whether to kill the baby.

Please start using accurate nomenclature, does anything make that choice?

Unfortunately miscarriages happen, and it is very sad.

In a vast number of other abortions, the sadness is very real.

In abortion, you choose to deliberately kill the baby.

Nomenclature dear boy, are you a godist? Do you believe in god?

#428

dustryder

Debates: 5

Posts: 1,080

3

2

4

dustryder

11.24.2019 06:53AM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 06:53AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

Self-defense you are saving your life. Euthanasia is morally dicey but in any case it is the person's decision to kill themselves. In abortion, you are forcing your will onto another human being.

I'm not sure what your point is. There is forcing of will in all of these cases. There are reasons for the permissibly in all of these cases. In abortion, it is deemed improper for the state to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body. In addition, pregnancy impacts the woman's life negatively.

There is a difference between murder and killing.

As we've already discussed, the difference is in legality. All of these examples are legal to varying degree in different countries.

#429

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,071

3

6

zedvictor4

11.24.2019 07:06AM

3

6

11.24.2019 07:06AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

I'm Pro Life. Change my mind.

That was the proposition.

And of course, who isn't actually "Pro Life" ?

Nonetheless our personal survival depends just as much upon extinguishing live as it does upon the maintenance of life.

Therefore we all have to make selective judgements, which inevitably require us to have selective principles/morals.

Your assumption that human life has a greater value than that of other life forms is an inevitable bias, but nonetheless an unfounded assumption .

Though I suspect that you are also selectively moral in regard to the value of human life, which admittedly, is typically how we are conditioned to be.

Therefore irrespective of law. To cherry pick the human lives on which you care to pin the "Pro Life" badge is therefore somewhat hypocritical.

That is not to say though, that I do not understand the assumed moral dilemmas associated with the issue of abortion.

#430

ebuc

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,920

3

2

4

ebuc

11.24.2019 02:30PM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 02:30PM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

Thank you for your input. When you come back again, I would hope you would try to be more productive.

Your welcome to my input anytime I give it.

Your a sick in the head pervert who repeatedly virtually rape pregnant women by sticking your indencent and immoral nose into pregnant womens bodily business without their consent. STOP IT NOW!

Your a coward who would not need to try sticking your nose into a street fight ---where it has no business being--- and see what the results to their nose are in those circumstances. OUCH! Your nose will then become incoherent and you will be Sad :--(.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Facts:

Egg { X } is live biological organism of the woman.

Spermoza { X or y } is live biological organism of the male who gives his sperm to the female.

Combination of spermoza with egg equals a biological living oganism of ---and attached to-- the pregnant woman, until,

.....1} birth of fetus as baby only and,

.....2} disconnect of the umbilical cord.

The less complex male cannot, nor ever will be a womb-an irrespective of any sexual transformations

The more complex female and most complex pregnant woman are the most complex biological organisms of Universe.

Men are 2nd in complexity, only to women.

#431

SirAnonymous

Debates: 3

Posts: 4,140

3

7

10

SirAnonymous

11.24.2019 02:39PM

3

7

10

11.24.2019 02:39PM

-->

@disgusted

How about answering my question or telling me where you did answer it? (Link, quote, post number)

If pro-life women don't oppose women's bodily autonomy, then how is it not inconsistent for you to say that pro-life men do? Why does the logic of the situation change simply because the people in question have different chromosomes?

Also, what's up with "godist?" Is that supposed to be insulting?

#432

ILikePie5

Debates: 3

Posts: 15,162

3

7

10

ILikePie5

11.24.2019 05:20PM

3

7

10

11.24.2019 05:20PM

Funny that the founder of Planned Parenthood was a eugenicist who wanted to abort black babies. Coincidentally, black women have the highest rates of abortion in the nation.

#433

bmdrocks21

Debates: 6

Posts: 2,798

4

6

11

bmdrocks21

11.24.2019 05:24PM

4

6

11

11.24.2019 05:24PM

-->

@disgusted

Miscarriages are completely different from abortions.
In both cases there is a growth attached to a woman's body that is expelled. They are the same.

So, is first-degree murder against someone the exact same as that person dying of natural causes? Either way, that person dies, so it is the same, right???

Topic's author

#434

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 05:34PM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 05:34PM

-->

@dustryder

In abortion, it is deemed improper for the state to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body.

But it's not her body. It is the babies body inside of her. Even as you devalue motherhood and claim pregnancy can impact her life negatively, what right does she have to murder another human being?

Topic's author

#435

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 05:38PM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 05:38PM

-->

@zedvictor4

Though I suspect that you are also selectively moral in regard to the value of human life

I am not. I believe all human life, no matter at what stage, has the same value as another human at another stage. In other words, the value of human life is inherent.

Again, animal life is a whole other issue. I'd rather stay on topic and talk about human rights, things get off topic when we talk about animal lives. I believe humans get food from animals so we can eat, and that humans have souls given to us by God. Therefore, while animal life is valuable, human life is much more valuable, as designed by God. I don't bring religion into politics, but I definitely separate human rights and animal rights.

Topic's author

#436

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 05:40PM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 05:40PM

-->

@disgusted

If you are going to be that intellectually dishonest in claiming miscarriages are the same as abortions, then I will not engage. That is actually stupidity, and very offensive to mother's that desperately wanted their child but they had a miscarriage.

#437

dustryder

Debates: 5

Posts: 1,080

3

2

4

dustryder

11.24.2019 05:50PM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 05:50PM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

But it's not her body. It is the babies body inside of her.

You're being disingenuous. Pregnancy and abortion involves both the mother and the fetus's body. However in the context of describing why it is permissible from a legal and moral perspective, the fetus is not relevant.

Even as you devalue motherhood and claim pregnancy can impact her life negatively, what right does she have to murder another human being?

If you're asking this question again, it means you've understood nothing about my position and we're going back to the very start. Instead of asking a basic question about my position again and again, I would suggest you go back over the thread, and actually crystallize some of the positions I hold. That way you can answer your own questions before asking such dumb questions.

#438

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,071

3

6

zedvictor4

11.24.2019 08:26PM

3

6

11.24.2019 08:26PM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

I don't bring religion into politics

You've just sort of brought religion into politics.

Nonetheless:

I personally regard the mechanics of all life to be the same in all living things. No God required.

And the top predator is not necessarily always going to be the human.

If a god did design life, it also designed animals that eat humans. So the god certainly didn't regard it to be necessary to separate animal rights and human rights.

I think that humans probably made that rule up for themselves.

Topic's author

#439

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 08:45PM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 08:45PM

-->

@zedvictor4

God designed life for humans. If you hold that position, then you don't know very much about Christianity. I guess we just hold different values for different types of life, so we can't have a discussion unless we are going to start talking about human beings and get the animal stuff out.

Topic's author

#440

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.24.2019 08:47PM

2

3

10

11.24.2019 08:47PM

-->

@dustryder

However in the context of describing why it is permissible from a legal and moral perspective, the fetus is not relevant.

A human being getting murdered is not relevant. Got it. Well, you have not changed my mind since you think it should not be illegal to murder human beings. Thank you for your time.

#441

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,071

3

6

zedvictor4

11.24.2019 09:06PM

3

6

11.24.2019 09:06PM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

Can you explain the mechanics of life?

And particularly, how it differs between species.

If you can explain that, without just simply saying that a god sorted it, then perhaps we can move on.

It's just to easy and convenient to say that a god did it.

You cannot claim to be "Pro-Life" if you cannot differentiate between lives that you do not have the same regard for.

I would suggest that it would be far more productive if gods rather than animals were removed from the discussion.

And furthermore, can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say that you regard all human lives with equal measure?

#442

dustryder

Debates: 5

Posts: 1,080

3

2

4

dustryder

11.24.2019 09:41PM

3

2

4

11.24.2019 09:41PM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

A human being getting murdered is not relevant. Got it. Well, you have not changed my mind since you think it should not be illegal to murder human beings. Thank you for your time.

?????

A human being getting murdered is not relevant. -> In the context of the reasoning as to why abortion is currently permissible from a legal and moral perspective....

You think it should not be illegal to murder human beings. -> In the context that there will always be permissible reasons to kill other human beings both morally and legally.. not that murder is broadly permissible.

Like.. I can't be the only one to notice that you're engaging in extremely dishonest and unfaithful discussion right?

Topic's author

#443

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.25.2019 01:42AM

2

3

10

11.25.2019 01:42AM

-->

@dustryder

Unless a women's life is in danger, they should not have the right to kill another human being. Again, where do you draw the line?

Topic's author

#444

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.25.2019 01:43AM

2

3

10

11.25.2019 01:43AM

-->

@zedvictor4

I would suggest that it would be far more productive if gods rather than animals were removed from the discussion.

How about we remove both! Problem solved. Now we can start talking about human life.

And furthermore, can you honestly put your hand on your heart and say that you regard all human lives with equal measure?

Yes.

#445

disgusted

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,959

2

3

disgusted

11.25.2019 02:06AM

2

3

11.25.2019 02:06AM

-->

@SirAnonymous

Post #431.

Who says they don't.

#446

disgusted

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,959

2

3

disgusted

11.25.2019 02:08AM

2

3

11.25.2019 02:08AM

-->

@Our_Boat_is_Right

You just keep prattling on about murdering a human being.

Here's a thing how about you collect some of those blastocysts and bring them up as your own?

#447

SirAnonymous

Debates: 3

Posts: 4,140

3

7

10

SirAnonymous

11.25.2019 02:54AM

3

7

10

11.25.2019 02:54AM

-->

@disgusted

Post #431.

That's my post. Why are you giving me the number to my own post?

Who says they don't.

Who says who don't what?

Topic's author

#448

Our_Boat_is_Right

Debates: 16

Posts: 334

2

3

10

Our_Boat_is_Right

11.25.2019 02:59AM

2

3

10

11.25.2019 02:59AM

-->

@disgusted

There are many programs and churches who will either adopt women's babies if they can't keep them, or will financially aid and help the women in raising the child.

#449

disgusted

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,959

2

3

disgusted

11.25.2019 03:09AM

2

3

11.25.2019 03:09AM

-->