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@3RU7AL
Our religion does not come from the bible, the bible comes from our religion.Based on what "Bible" verse?
So your question is misguided from the get go.
We certainly do not accept same sex marriage as being a reality.
"Religious Freedom" = Discrimination = Hate
Posts
Total:
737
So your question is misguided from the get go.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
lol you ignore most of my questions because answering greatly weakens your argument and you think that goes unnoticed?
Bald assertion, appeal to ignorance.
if you think you've succeeded in diverting attention away from that fact you are sadly mistaken.
Stating opinion as fact. Rush to declare victory.
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@Mopac
Based on what "Bible" verse?Our religion does not come from the bible, the bible comes from our religion.So your question is misguided from the get go.We certainly do not accept same sex marriage as being a reality.
So you ignore "The Bible" and reality? It sounds like, "let's play pretend".
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@3RU7AL
The legislation you referenced in the OP is targeted at RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.
If I am mistaken, show me otherwise. If not, talking about wedding cakes is off topic unless said bakery is a religious organization, and it very well could be because marriage is a sacred mystery of the church.
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@Snoopy
THEREFORE, you must also refuse to make cakes for other SINNERS, like adulterers and divorcees and Sabbath violators.Because there is nothing in "The Bible" that makes homosexuality any different than any of those other sins.That has been disproven.
Disproved by what exactly?
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@3RU7AL
The underlined portion...
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@3RU7AL
lol keep it up, another lame attempt to dismiss and divert.
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@3RU7AL
So you ignore "The Bible" and reality? It sounds like, "let's play pretend".
You give me no reason to believe you are anything but willfully ignorant concerning my faith, and every reason to believe that you are.
As this is the case, I dismiss your question outright. You don't really respect what scripture is used for or what it says anyway.
This is really a matter of you demanding coercion from the government to enforce your own religion while accusing us of what you yourself are doing.
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@Mopac
The legislation you referenced in the OP is targeted at RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.If I am mistaken, show me otherwise. If not, talking about wedding cakes is off topic unless said bakery is a religious organization, and...
HB 1523 allows anyone citing a religiously motivated reason to deny goods and services to the LGBTQ community, as well as those who have sex outside of marriage, or anything else that might rub their dogmatic sensibilities the wrong way.
it very well could be because marriage is a sacred mystery of the church.
Your Church did not invent marriage and does not own marriage.
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@Mopac
This is really a matter of you demanding coercion from the government to enforce your own religion while accusing us of what you yourself are doing.
How do you interpret "serve the public if you are open to the public" as "coercion"?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
lol keep it up, another lame attempt to dismiss and divert.
Let's just jump straight to baseless characterizations and skip over arguments completely.
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@Snoopy
The underlined portion...
Masterpiece Cakeshop will happily create custom cakes for anyone. But like many cake artists, Jack cannot create all custom cakes. He cannot create custom cakes that express messages or celebrate events that conflict with his religious beliefs. [LINK]
What does this "disprove" exactly?
Yeah, that is your spun interpretation of what this legislation does not say.HB 1523 allows anyone citing a religiously motivated reason to deny goods and services to the LGBTQ community, as well as those who have sex outside of marriage, or anything else that might rub their dogmatic sensibilities the
The legislation you cite has to do with religious organizations.How do you interpret "serve the public if you are open to the public" as "coercion"?
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@3RU7AL
Masterpiece Cakeshop will happily create custom cakes for anyone.Disproves what exactly
"refusing cake to sinners"
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@3RU7AL
"Religious organization" means:
(a) A house of worship, including, but not limited to, churches, synagogues, shrines, mosques and temples;
(b) A religious group, corporation, association, school or educational institution, ministry, order, society or similar entity, regardless of whether it is integrated or affiliated with a church or other house of worship; and
(c) An officer, owner, employee, manager, religious leader, clergy or minister of an entity or organization described in this subsection
(a) A house of worship, including, but not limited to, churches, synagogues, shrines, mosques and temples;
(b) A religious group, corporation, association, school or educational institution, ministry, order, society or similar entity, regardless of whether it is integrated or affiliated with a church or other house of worship; and
(c) An officer, owner, employee, manager, religious leader, clergy or minister of an entity or organization described in this subsection
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@Mopac
@3RU7AL
But like many cake artists, Jack cannot create all custom cakes. He cannot create custom cakes that express messages or celebrate events that conflict with his religious beliefs.
It should say "will not," not "cannot," if you ask me. And it should lay out how he checks if you work on Sundays before he makes you a cake.
We certainly do not acknowledge homosexual marriage as being a reality.
But do you acknowledge is as being in the ULTIMATE REALITY? Because they exist in this reality.
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@ludofl3x
Even illusions exist as illusions.
I don't care if people play pretend marriage. Just don't expect the church to recognize its legitimacy.
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@3RU7AL
YOU skipped over arguments lol I've asked you very direct questions about religion and interpretation of, that you have selectively ignored for obvious reasons imo
in many threads you attack religion because it's vague,inconsistent and open to interpretation, yet in this thread you demand objective specifics, consistency and your interpretation to justify objections, though you don't believe they can exist. totally opposite of what you have said and believe typically, yeah it's me not you.
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@Mopac
Churches do not make marriage legitimate. The state issuing the license does.
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@ludofl3x
If your religion is secularism, sure.
But my religion is not secularism, so I disagree.
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@Mopac
Do you agree with " The Church " on everything?
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@Snoopy
Masterpiece Cakeshop will happily create custom cakes for anyone.Disproves what exactly"refusing cake to sinners"
Do you have any thoughts regarding the second part of the statement, "But like many cake artists, Jack cannot create all custom cakes. He cannot create custom cakes that express messages or celebrate events that conflict with his religious beliefs." [LINK] ?
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@3RU7AL
Yes
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
YOU skipped over arguments lol I've asked you very direct questions about religion and interpretation of, that you have selectively ignored for obvious reasons imo
If you feel like I've missed something you consider important, please ask again.
in many threads you attack religion because it's vague,inconsistent and open to interpretation, yet in this thread you demand objective specifics, consistency and your interpretation to justify objections, though you don't believe they can exist. totally opposite of what you have said and believe typically, yeah it's me not you.
Most religious laws are VERy specific.
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@Mopac
HB 1523 allows anyone citing a religiously motivated reason to deny goods and services to the LGBTQ community, as well as those who have sex outside of marriage, or anything else that might rub their dogmatic sensibilities theYeah, that is your spun interpretation of what this legislation does not say.
SECTION 2. The sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions protected by this act are the belief or conviction that:
(a) Marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman;
(b) Sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage; and
(c) Male (man) or female (woman) refer to an individual's immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy and genetics at time of birth.
At what point does it specify "Churches"?
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@3RU7AL
"Religious organization" means:
(a) A house of worship, including, but not limited to, churches, synagogues, shrines, mosques and temples;
(b) A religious group, corporation, association, school or educational institution, ministry, order, society or similar entity, regardless of whether it is integrated or affiliated with a church or other house of worship; and
(c) An officer, owner, employee, manager, religious leader, clergy or minister of an entity or organization described in this subsection
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@Snoopy
"Religious organization" means:(a) A house of worship, including, but not limited to, churches, synagogues, shrines, mosques and temples;(b) A religious group, corporation, association, school or educational institution, ministry, order, society or similar entity, regardless of whether it is integrated or affiliated with a church or other house of worship; and(c) An officer, owner, employee, manager, religious leader, clergy or minister of an entity or organization described in this subsection
So a corporation, regardless of whether it is integrated or affiliated with a church is still considered a "Religious organization"?
Any owner, employee or manager of a corporation is also individually considered a "Religious organization"?
This seems to cover slightly more than just "Churches".
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@3RU7AL
Most of religious laws are VERy specific.
yes most, not all
when marriage is described in the bible do the verses ever talk about same sex couples in an accepting way? Because it often says wives, wife, man all describing heterosexual marriage. Do you know of any verses where it's ambiguous or open to interpretation with regards to gay marriage being acceptable?
since there are specifics about heterosexual marriage, duties, responsibilities it is of importance, but I am unaware of any such instructions towards homosexual marriage, are there any?
I will assume there isn't but open to change my mind, but if there aren't any we'd have to ask why, couple of reasons I can think of, they simply forgot? not very likely, it just wasn't a thing back then and or it couldn't be a thing back then, it was not accepted, acceptable.
the bible acknowledges man and woman unions,marriages whatever in an acceptable way, but not homosexual ones that I'm aware of.
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@3RU7AL
Generally, that is how it should be for closely held corporations. They are already protected by the United States Constitution.