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Parables: The Way to Heaven
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@Mopac
Of course rejecting your morality that demands that infanticide is right and just is far from arbitrary, it is in fact very specific and proof that my morality is far greater than the morality of the IPSS that you espouse.
But it is very probably true - and you worship the truth, don't you?
What makes the survival of humanity intrinsically moral? I thought you were a moral nihilist?
It is certainly not how Orthodoxy understands morality.
You have heard the term 'false dichotomy' before? The choices are not limited to theistic religion or hedonism.
I never made such a claim, so I am not making a dichotomy at all. I can surely think of other "choices". Interestingly enough, the Greek word "heresy" means choice.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Truth worship is certainly better than worshipping amusement.
Truth worship is certainly better than worshipping the self.
Worshipping God in spirit and in truth is certainly superior to worshipping God insincerely for gain.
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@Mopac
Okay... But the distinction between opinions that are true (like orthodox christianity) and opinions that are false (like other theologies) is not arbitrary. It is very non-arbitrary. There is a very clear and non-biased way of distinguishing between them, the very opposite of arbitrary. Why can't you see that?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Obviously I do see that because I am Orthodox.
I don't see that YOU get it, because as I said, you are speaking in a "fill in the blank" type of manner which leads me to believe you are not understanding something.
But if I am the one who is missing something, I would appreciate you filling me in.
Obviously I do see that because I am Orthodox.I don't see that YOU get it, because as I said, you are speaking in a "fill in the blank" type of manner which leads me to believe you are not understanding something.
Look, all I am saying is that if the distinction between true opinions and false opinions was arbitrary then there would not be any clear and non-biased method of distinguishing between opinions that are true and opinions that are false. Look here:
Can we at least agree on that much?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
And is not the discipline that I described to you a method in itself?
The method is heart purification.
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@Mopac
The method is heart purification.
...and here's how to do it.
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@Mopac
It goes without saying that orthodox christians have very pure hears since orthodox christians are the very best in every way (and the most humble too).
Luckily for us though we do not use that as our method for distinguishing between opinions that are true and opinions that are false since that would mean that we could only have opinions on things where the purity level of hearts was involved.
It would also mean that all those heritics and infidels with pure hearts would have just as much claim on having true opinions as us.
No. There is a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions. It is not arbitrary.
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@Mopac
You have heard the term 'false dichotomy' before? The choices are not limited to theistic religion or hedonism.I never made such a claim, so I am not making a dichotomy at all.
Maybe, but you offered this either/or choice earlier when you wrote:
Compare The Truth is God, love God by purifying the heart.ToThe Truth is God. Love God through hedonism.Which is true worship? Which is right belief?
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@keithprosser
One reaches Allah Most High by repenting from all things, unlawful or offensive; seeking sacred knowledge in accordance with one’s needs; maintaining ritual purity; performing the obligatory prayers in the first of their time and in congregation, including the Sunna prayers that correspond to each of the obligatory prayers; adhering to the eight raka’ats of the midmorning prayer (Duha) and the six raka’ats after the sunset prayer and before the night prayer; performing the night prayers (tahajjud) after awaking from one’s sleep; fulfilling the witr prayer; fasting on Mondays and Thursdays and on the three days of the full moon – i.e. the 13th,14th, and 15th of the lunar month – and also the days of the year in which fasting is recommended; reciting the Quran with the heart’s presence coupled with reflection upon its meanings; frequently asking forgiveness of Allah (istighfar); maintaining prayers and blessings upon the Prophet, peace be upon him; and, finally, adhering to the meritorious invocations of the morning and the evening that have come to us from the Sunna (adhkaar as-sabaah wa al-masa)
In other words, if you follow these instructions, you will reach God!
Purity of heart in a Muslim context I imagine means something very different than an Orthodox context.
Maybe, but you offered this either/or choice earlier
It wasn't an either or choice, it was a non exhaustive comparison.
As I freely admitted and even believed when I made that post.
Would you prefer I write a book for everyone here on the infinite variations of pagan practice?
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@Mopac
Would you prefer I write a book for everyone here on the infinite variations of pagan practice?
It seems you don't know much about "the infinite variations of pagan practice" as you admit you don't know what 'purity of heart' means in a muslim context.
Purity of heart in a Muslim context I imagine means something very different than an Orthodox context.
so it wouldn't be very good book.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
It goes without saying that orthodox christians have very pure hears since orthodox christians are the very best in every way (and the most humble too).
That is a claim that no one is making.
Orthodox Christians are people, and as such you will find them at many different stages.
And yes, many Orthodox Christians are not very good at practicing the faith.
Luckily for us though we do not use that as our method for distinguishing between opinions that are true and opinions that are false since that would mean that we could only have opinions on things where the purity level of hearts was involved.
Someone can't have a pure heart for you.
Just as reading a science text book makes not a scientist.
No. There is a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions. It is not arbitrary.
And wouldn't you agree that having a pure and undefiled nous would make someone more effective at this?
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@keithprosser
I don't respect you as an authority on the subject. You are, after all, identifying as an atheist, which means that your stated position is that you don't believe there is an Ultimate Reality.
Really, that undermines everything you say, because it means you don't believe in anything you say.
Whether or not you believe this or not is irrelevant. This is your stated position. At this point, you should know better. Since you are not correcting yourself, it leads me to believe that sincerity is not as important to you as your pride.
I am not asking you to say you are a Christian. But at the very leadt, you do believe God exists, which means you are not an atheist. If you disagree, I'm not interested in your semantic fumblings.
Someone can't have a pure heart for you.
Right, and if someone says they accept some theology other than orthodox christianity as true then they are wrong. Therefore obviously either that persons heart was not really pure or pure hearts are not a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Purity of heart has to do with one's relationship with God. Certainly The Holy Spirit grants discernment as a gift, but a purity of heart has little to do with say, constructing an airplane.
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@Mopac
I don't respect you as an authority on the subject. You are, after all, identifying as an atheist, which means that your stated position is that you don't believe there is an Ultimate Reality.
Once again the ignorance of the theist appears in 20' neon lights. Atheism has nothing to do with your ultimate reality and I suspect nothing else does either.
Really, that undermines everything you say, because it means you don't believe in anything you say.
Your insistence on projecting your beliefs onto others is well known and always rejected for it's lack of TRUTH
Whether or not you believe this or not is irrelevant. This is your stated position. At this point, you should know better. Since you are not correcting yourself, it leads me to believe that sincerity is not as important to you as your pride.
It is completely your stated position, not anyone else's. Your insistence on lying about what others say and believe is most assuredly proof of your total lack of sicerity.
I am not asking you to say you are a Christian. But at the very leadt, you do believe God exists, which means you are not an atheist. If you disagree, I'm not interested in your semantic fumblings.
News flash for the permanently bewildered, atheists don't believe in any of your gods and you seem to have a plethora.
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@disgusted
The Truth is God.
You say God doesn't exist.
Therefore you don't believe in The Truth.
Very simple.
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@Mopac
The Truth is God.
Prove it.
And you are still projecting your beliefs onto me, not very honest are you, in fact you are completely dishonest.
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@disgusted
Prove there is something greater than The Ultimate Reality.
Certainly The Holy Spirit grants discernment as a gift, but a purity of heart has little to do with say, constructing an airplane.
There is a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions.
Some might say "the method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions is heart purification" while others might say "Post 308 of this thread is incorrect". Which of these two people is right?
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@Mopac
I asked first, you put up or shut up, coward.
But just for giggles the answer is me because your ultimate reality is a figment of your imagination and I exist.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Heart purification is not about sorting the opinions of other people. Though it certainly does involve examining the influences and processes that might lead to one's own opinions.
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@Mopac
I'm sorry Mopac, but I think there IS a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions. It is NOT arbitrary.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Why are you sorry for something we both believe?
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@Mopac
Because I do not know how what this reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions is, I only know that it does exist. Perhaps you could tell me what it is?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Why do you feel it necessary to turn truth into an opinion?
I do not know what this reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between true opinions and false opinions is, I only know that it does exist. Perhaps you could tell me what it is?Why do you feel it necessary to turn truth into an opinion?
You do not know either, then? That is unfortunate.
At least we can agree that some opinions are correct (like the belief that orthodox christian theology is accurate) and other opinions are incorrect (like the belief that those other evil-nihilist-heritic-infidel-heathen theologies are accurate). It would be nice to have a reliable and non-biased method that can be used to sort between such true opinions and false opinions though, and to tell which is which.
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@Mopac
I don't even know what the subject is!I don't respect you as an authority on the subject