Parables: The Way to Heaven

Author: Discipulus_Didicit

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Mopac
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@keithprosser
I wouldn't want to live in the Victorian age either, but at least they had the sense to know that an atheist was denying absolute truth. Even the faithless preferred to call themselves deists, because they knew God existed! The nihilism that came out of academia during that time has a lot to do with the wars of the century that followed. The rejection of God? No, this is not an advancement. This is a trick of the devil, who has fooled otherwise intelligent people to think that the contemporary man, totally detached from true humanity and even reality itself is somehow an advancement. 

Well, when the virtual reality is unplugged, and people are not distracted from their chains, finally noticing they are there after being told they were free their whole life, it will be too late. The boots will crash down, and there will be no mercy. It will be too late to repent.


The only position that involves no logical contradictions is the affirmation of an absolute truth which underlies and secures all lesser truths; an absolute truth can be obtained by no relative, human means.
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@Mopac
Then we have to learn how to do without 'absolute truth'.
disgusted
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@Mopac
And I don't think you understannd that denying God undermines every single thing you say,
All gods are the creation of man.


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@Mopac
Zeus is the ultimate reality, no zeus is this.
Yeah fuckin' stupid isn't it?
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@keithprosser
Spoken like a true nihilist.

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@Mopac
For someone who worships a dictionary you have an almost complete non understanding of word meanings.
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… Confused as to where this thread went. Fellow Orthobro (Orthosis? Orthosister. Idk. I'm probably not as hip as I think I am). In any case, just as a note, I use RSVCE, but I also check through other translations and look at the Hebrew and Greek when available, especially on translations that appear contested—e.g., when the NIV translated the Hebrew term "come out" as "miscarry" while other translations used "born prematurely." 

But anyway, I'll cover these in order if you don't mind. And if these were already commented on, then my bad for a lengthy post. 

Note II: The entire chapter of Matthew 13 builds on itself. The ones at the beginning relate to the parables at the end, and each covers specific ideas but essentially the same issue.

Matthew 13:24-35
The seeds Jesus planted is Truth, and then others came after and began tarnishing it, forming weeds. The wheat will enter the barn, the faithful into the kingdom, and the weeds will be taken out and burned. It's an additional commentary, though, that when people are apathetic, then falsehoods can harm their faith, their "crops." Matthew 13, then, seems more aptly a commentary on those that are lukewarm in their faith. 

Matthew 13:47-50
In these verses, it discusses those entering into the Church, which is the "net." A variety entered, some devout, some lukewarm, and thus this parable would be for them. A distinction is made frequently in scripture between those that live the lifestyle and those that are more cultural in name rather than fundamentally Christian in action and value. As noted before, there is figurative imagery. 

The good will be kept which is believed to be the commentary on "vessels." They'll be kept in heaven and with God to experience God. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that the reason for the question may have been connected to the basis that fish are typically eaten, but the parables were intended to convey an aspect of what was being taught and is not always intended literally in its entirety.

Conversely, to cover the bad ones: In the Church, there is the process of excommunication. If someone refuses to live like a Christian, instead resorting to bringing others down, teaching against the Church, being so greedy that they'd even throw the innocent aside to sate their urges, then they'd be cast away. An example of this is in Matthew 18:15-17, which says: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if refuses to even listen to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and tax collector." In other words, they'll be cast away (sent out of the church). In the kingdom of heaven, this is the same. If they aren't truly for God and don't live the lifestyle commanded of them, they would have to experience the waiting period or, if they never truly had faith, hell. The topic of hell is a different matter that I can discuss at a different time. 

As it pertains to hell, I could attempt to discuss this, but the focus of your questions are on "goodness," which I will attempt to focus on rather than lengthily get into something you didn't ask about. As the parables aren't that concerned about talking about heaven, it doesn't really get into it. Instead, it's discussing those that don't live their faith, which is why it doesn't describe, really, what happens to the "good." What happens to the "good" is discussed elsewhere, like the House on Rocks in Matthew 7:24-27. Those that are "good" would become pure in heart and see God (Matthew 5:8, 1 John 3:2-3). What exactly we'll find, we won't actually know for absolute certainty. The good has a place being prepared for them (John 14:24). Revelation also describes it as a place where our tears will be wiped away, with no morning and no death. You may already know these, though, so I'll finish that here. Hopefully, I answered your questions. 

Note: There are likely those with an entirely different exegesis. But this is a reading I get from it as does my Church. 
Mopac
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@Mercies
Earlier in the thread sometime, I did point out this interpretation, which is the church's interpretation.... the correct interpretation, eh?

Really glad to see another Orthodox Christian here. It's kind of a desert here.

If I am ever off as far as explaining what the church teaches, don't be shy to correct me! I try my best, but I make mistakes.

Hope you stick around, I really don't want to be the only rep here.


Mopac
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@disgusted
    "That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs  no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. " 

Guess who wrote this?


If you said anything other than Friedrich Nietzsche, you'd be wrong.
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@Mopac
And what did Fred Flinstone write and who gives a fuck. At least Nietzsche wrote something which makes him real, your mythical god never wrote a bloody word proving him fake.
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@Mopac
if you use nietzsche as your authority on what nihilism is,beware that he counted Christianity as nihilism.  According to  nietzche you, mopac, are an arch nihilist.

Nietzche did not advocate nihilism - rather he saw nihilism as a pervasive corrosive force with many faces (including religion) that was sapping mankind's vitality.   Nihilism for nietzsche was something to be opposed and overcome.


Mopac
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@keithprosser
In a certain sense, in an ultimate sense, a Christian is a nihilist. For to the Christian, in the end, the world is nothing, and God is all. This is the precise opposite of the nihilism here where the world is everything and God is nothing. That is a nihilism that proceeds from the abyss, and the Christian's is a "nihilism" that proceeds from abundance. The true nihilist places his faith in things that pass away and end in nothing. All optimism on this foundation is clearly futile. The Christian, renouncing such vanity places their faith in the one thing that will not pass away, The Kingdom of God.
Mopac
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@keithprosser
Here is another dandy from Nietzche, which kind of hammers in my point that there was a time when it was understood that atheism is fundamentally a denial of truth...

"Even we knowers of today, we godless anti-metaphysicians, still take our fire, too, from the flame lit by the thousand-year-old faith, the Christian faith which was also Plato's faith, that God is truth; that truth is divine." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
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@Mopac
Many go through a 'neitzsche phase' - mine was 30 years ago and i haven't read him since!

But I think the quote is about how Plato, Christians and modern intellectuals have all 'fetishised' truth. 
Neitzsche thinks they were all wrong - truth is a lie we agree on.
 
"To be truthful means to employ the usual metaphors. Thus, to express it morally, this is the duty to lie according to a fixed convention, to lie with the herd and in a manner binding upon everyone…"

If that view of truth defines a nihilist then i'm not a nihilist - no matter how many times you call me one!



Mopac
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@keithprosser
If you believe that there is ultimate reality, I wouldn't call you a nihilist.



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The way to HEAVEN ?   get RID of the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH GODS and YOU will be in HEAVEN !   

Right here on EARTH....no human ever needs any of these 3 RETARDED GOD INVENTIONS...

These 3 fool GODS are the stuff of ILLITERATE ANGRY TRIBAL LUNATICS fighting like 
children over their TOY GOD HOAXES...each balmes and condemns the other for being FALSE !

The only thing that is FALSE are these non existent man made JEW-JESUS-ALLAH Comic Book
GODS.....

WAKE UP HUMANITY....you have been CONNED by TRIBAL LUNATIC SCUM....

Need a GOD ?   then talk to it directly....no human ever needs another human to validate their right to EXIST and DIE
especially by psychotic middle East GOD inventing TRIBAL TRASH

13 days later

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@Mopac
You don't understand. The Ultimate Reality is God.
So what normal people call reality, you simply call god. Nothing wrong with that , but it simply doesn't work in the real world.


reality
/rɪˈalɪti/
noun
noun: reality
  1. 1.
    the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
    "he refuses to face reality"
    synonyms:
    the real world, real life, actuality; 
    More



    antonyms:
    fantasy
    • a thing that is actually experienced or seen, especially when this is unpleasant.
      plural noun: realities
      "the harsh realities of life in a farming community"
      synonyms:
      fact, actuality, truth, verity
      "the harsh realities of life"
    • a thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind.
      "we want to make the dream a reality"
    • the quality of being lifelike.
      "the reality of Marryat's detail"
      synonyms:
      verisimilitude, authenticity, realism, fidelity, faithfulness
      "the reality of Marryat's detail"
      antonyms:
      idealism
    • relating to reality TV.
      modifier noun: reality
      "a reality show"
  2. 2.
    the state or quality of having existence or substance.
    "youth, when death has no reality"
    • PHILOSOPHY
      existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions.

God
/ɡɒd/
noun
noun: God; noun: god; plural noun: gods; plural noun: the gods
  1. 1.
    (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
  2. 2.
    (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
    "a moon god"
    synonyms:
    deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, supreme being, divinity, immortal; 
    More
    an image, animal, or other object worshipped as divine or symbolizing a god.
    • "wooden gods from the Congo"
      synonyms:
      idol, graven image, icon, golden calf, totem, talisman, fetish, mascot, juju
      "wooden gods"
    • used as a conventional personification of fate.
      "he dialled the number and, the gods relenting, got through at once"
  3. 3.
    a greatly admired or influential person.
    "he has little time for the fashion victims for whom he is a god"
    • a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
      "don't make money your god"
  4. 4.
    INFORMAL
    the gallery in a theatre.
    "they sat in the gods"
exclamation
exclamation: God
  1. 1.
    used for emphasis or to express emotions such a