Holy Diary DP2

Author: WyIted

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Greyparrot
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@Vader
Could Savant have been scum? what's with the ???? on the role?
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iamanabanana
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@Vader
If there was any mod to do that, it would unironically be Wylted
Is he known for doing multiple vigges or something? can you link me evidence of this?
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@iamanabanana
Vader is claiming that he can kill people unlimited amount of times. I am claiming a 1x killing role. Do you think wylted puts an unlimited killing role alongside an x shot killing role? Something isn't right here.
you kind of have a point there, an everynight killing role is kind of OP. I still think you should claim though. If your pushing the narrative there can only be one killing role, I have no reason to believe its him over you, or why mafia would get two night kills, or why there would be two third parties, etc. Also just to note, ERB mafia just happened and it had a PGO and a bookie (Two killing roles) and that was only a 9 player game. If there was going to be two killing roles in a game, it makes sense it would be in a 14 player game. 
ILikePie5
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@iamanabanana
VTL Banana for full claim
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@ILikePie5
VTL Banana for full claim
I've already given it to you. But thats fine, you wanna lynch me, do it, just pay close attention to my wagon and punish those on it. I will take vader or maybe someone else with me. I will consider if it's likely there are two town killing roles, but I just don't think so.
ILikePie5
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@iamanabanana
I've already given it to you. But thats fine, you wanna lynch me, do it, just pay close attention to my wagon and punish those on it. I will take vader or maybe someone else with me. I will consider if it's likely there are two town killing roles, but I just don't think so.
You haven’t given your role. I would like to know what your role is to be able to make a decision.
iamanabanana
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Also apparently my action of rejecting the person who visited me was not wise, since i was told "your loss" by the mod. So that may mean whoever visited me was actually town instead of scum. Just something to keep in mind if the info ever comes up later.
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@ILikePie5
You haven’t given your role. I would like to know what your role is to be able to make a decision.
I am a killing role with the ability to kill someone. That's my role.
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@iamanabanana
I am a killing role with the ability to kill someone. That's my role.
The specific name of your role. Supa is claiming Vigilante.  Casey was Activist. What’s yours?
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@ILikePie5
The specific name of your role. Supa is claiming Vigilante.  Casey was Activist. What’s yours?

Town Insurgent.
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@iamanabanana
Town Insurgent.
Great, now we’re getting somewhere. 
ILikePie5
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Unvote to avoid overnight shenanigans

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@Lunatic
@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Mharman
@AustinL0926
I’ll say that I still don’t like Banana. I also mentioned in DP that I thought Banana was hyperbolizing the 14 post. Savant said nothing about it even though he had 14 posts. I even said something along the lines of “no one has claimed something with 14 post,” and Savant was quiet about that. My current read is that Savant was scum, and Supa shot correctly. Because he shot correctly and scum didn’t expect Supa would be a Vig, Supa wasn’t manipulated. The flip also establishes the long PM standard. I think we’re also forgetting that it’s conceivable Scum Banana could actually have a killing role, and she’s telling the truth about that piece. My only hesitation is why CC. I’d guess that it’s because she was already exposed with the PM link, and if she gets hammered or whatever, the hammerer dies due to her role. The behavior for Banana is also off, and the arguments she’s making about balance and two killing roles make more sense coming from someone more experienced vs Banana
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@JoeBob
@Owen_T
What are your thoughts so far?
Vader
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@ILikePie5
What is an Insurgent?
Vader
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My reads are currently as follows

Greyparrot - null / slight town
lunatic - null / fos
Pie - town
Mharman -null
Owen  - null / slight town
Banana - scum
Joebob -null / fos
Austin - null
Barney - null
Whiteflame - slight town



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@Vader
What is an Insurgent?
No clue, she hasn’t said how it works, just that it’s a “killing role”
Vader
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@ILikePie5
Lol I figured as much

Giving reads soon
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@iamanabanana
What are your reads?
Greyparrot
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@ILikePie5
whats the ???? on savants kill?
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@Greyparrot
whats the ???? on savants kill?
Thats what we’re trying to figure it, just hold on Your Crabliness
Vader
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Right now the only person that I am fairly certain is town is Pie. Pie was very much adament of Casey's town. With Casey's death and flip it almost makes it more true. I also think his logic with Banana and his logic throughout the game have been coorelated with his town behavior and I think he is likely town

Whiteflame is coming off as my second biggest town read at this point in time. I feel like he is properly investing the time are care to ensure he is properly analyzing the game and in such a complex, wtf, kind of game. I feel as if whiteflame would want to take a lot of risks as town. I also just think his general reads he's given as town allign with what I seen from him as town. Good behavioral analysis despite some migraine issues. Just feels like he's town

I had Mharman in my FOS pile in DP1 but honestly considering his reactions to Pie and his shift in analysis, I feel like he gets put into that null pile.If he's scum I feel like he's trying to push Pie a bit more and put skeptism on Pie rather than admit, damn maybe my reads were wrong about Pie. Idk if this true if someone wants to confirm that I'm right please LMK. But still I am still torn apart about that quick vote on Pie within an hour. Post 30 min in and then 30 min later it's a vote. The pretty hard defense of banana last DP (which yes I did have a slight town, I still think it was possible Banana could be scum), it is really just a gut feeling but from everything else I don't think it's that behaviorally scum. 

I have a null on Barney but I could see slowly move into the town reads consider what I've seen from him last DP

I also have Owen as a slight town but I am like 20% confident on that as well. I feel like his thought process as a noob is pretty townie for the most part, reading into people and how they act, but it also comes off as very lazy. But his behavior hasn't stood out as opportunistic or anything like that. Idk if that is Owens meta but I am least confident in this read

Banana is my scum pile. I don't think I need to say more

My other two FoS's are Luna and JoeBob with JoeBob being my weaker FoS

My FoS with Luna comes from what I was saying in DP1 about him putting pressure on banana for not reading then suddenly backing off, which now looks EVEN MORE suspicious imo considering what we are dealing with this DP. I also just think a lot of what analysis Luna is doing this DP and some of the last DP just seems like, a lot of just letting other people control the DP. I noticed in ERB mafia even when he claimed Justice, he sort of set the precedent for where he was and then let town and others just in fight within themselves and just edge them along. I'm noticing a similiar pattern in this game in this game as well. There is a huge fuckery going on in this DP that should be prime for Lunatic going in on this DP giving a lot of thoughtful analysis and it's just a lot of basic stuff and have really a bit of substanace to it.

Vader
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I am going to take a shower and then post some more thoughts before I go to bed.
Vader
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I think Savant was scum in my opinion. Savant had to be some sort of janitor mechanic role that hides his affiliation. Scum would have to KNOW that I was a vigilante and was going to shoot Savant. That's the only way a janitor could have worked so I think it's safe to assume Savant had a self janitor role. Not to mention this role also blocks affiliation / role and NOT character justifications. 

So again, I feel like a dying record, it's more likely than not I hit scum on this. I don't want to pat myself on the back but role affiliation hiding would be fucking pointless unless you knew there was a vig and that someone on scum was going to get shot and there's a below 5% chance scum could've predicted that I had. It would just be useless utility role. Also if they had this ability, why wouldn't they have used it on their NK rather than their own player? Only reason this could be is that they knew Pie had the role that confirmed Casey's affiliation and didn't want to essentially town lock himself to a certain extent? It would honestly make sense for Pie to have this role then from a balance perspective.


Vader
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With that post, I am going to bed. Wanna see what others say tomorrow about what took place
Lunatic
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@Vader
My FoS with Luna comes from what I was saying in DP1 about him putting pressure on banana for not reading then suddenly backing off, which now looks EVEN MORE suspicious imo considering what we are dealing with this DP.
My problem with banana was that she claimed she didnt read her role pm, so how would she know her justification if pressured? It actually is a bigger problem now because now she is saying she basically has no justification, which means she lied and that was the only reason I unvoted her in the first place. 

 I also just think a lot of what analysis Luna is doing this DP and some of the last DP just seems like, a lot of just letting other people control the DP.
No one listens to me when I try and "control the day phase". Look at last game, I was yelling at walls trying to preach to you fvcks that austin was town and no one listened to me. That said, I don't have as many solid town reads this game as I did last game. And my main read was on wylted last game which I ended up being wrong about, which I realized in the end, but the point is I don't want to push lynches like that unless I am super confident in my read or if theres no drawback to them. 

 I noticed in ERB mafia even when he claimed Justice, he sort of set the precedent for where he was and then let town and others just in fight within themselves and just edge them along. I'm noticing a similiar pattern in this game in this game as well. There is a huge fuckery going on in this DP that should be prime for Lunatic going in on this DP giving a lot of thoughtful analysis and it's just a lot of basic stuff and have really a bit of substanace to it.
I don't know what you want from me, my vote is on banana, and I agree with pie that she needs to be helping this further by giving her information. I don't see the point in really pursuing other avenues until we can move past the obstacle that banana is being.

Btw I agree with your joebob read, he feels like he is lurking quite a bit, which is something I notice he does a lot as scum. He hasn't really pushed any real thought provoking activity, or had reads of his own, which I feel like he would as town. That said, I am keeping my vote on banana until she claims further but I'd be down to help you get info from joebob at some point this phase. I will say that I think it is more likely you are town too, though I can't explain for the janitor thing that happened to savant, I don't see why you would admit to a kill if you were scum. I buy the wifom at least.
AustinL0926
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ok. I'm mostly caught up, the night phase helped.

My confident townreads are Pie (I think I might get what's going on with his defense of Casey, aggression is within town meta, has shown a high level of care for the direction of the game that comes naturally from town trying to find the answer) and whiteflame (not just for the analysis - I think it's fakable - but rather having a high ratio of opinions as opposed to just rehashing information, which is one of the few semi-reliable scumtells I've found for him).

Leaning town on Mharman, his fight with Pie felt town vs town just in terms of conviction and I don't see how scum benefits in getting in such a long drawn out fight. I had a thought it could be theatre, but tbh if Pie and Mharman are both scum then we might be screwed anyways.

I think Owen's handling of his claim D1 was towny.

GP, Barney, Luna, Joebob, feel mostly null. I feel this is especially out of character for Luna, the other three I often struggle to read because they don't really commit to so many opinions or just lack activity, but even with Luna's schedule, I feel as town he's a lot more aggressive while as scum he's more laid back. Honestly I think there's at least 2 scum in this group, I feel good about my townreads.

That leaves Vader and Banana. Honestly I just townread Vader's claim and behavior throughout the whole game, no offense but he's being logical and nuanced in a way he just completely lacked in the scum game I saw from him and he's also displaying a high level of nuance and care. That aside, I really struggle to see Wylted giving scum an unlimited use vig, that's just absolutely broken especially when the setup already seems messy with hidden flips and a 3P. I guess it's possible that there's one town killing role and one scum killing role, I just find it unlikely.

The problem is that I don't really scumread banana either, I thought her handling of her claim D1 was very towny and the emotions she's showing here are similar to when she got sussed as a 3P in a game a while back.

Honestly, I'm not sure, is there a mechanical reason there has to be scum within them? I feel like two killing roles is very possible for town, especially if they do different thing. Would like to see banana elaborate on her claim either. But yeah, gth, this feels town vs town.


Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
I’ll say that I still don’t like Banana. I also mentioned in DP that I thought Banana was hyperbolizing the 14 post. Savant said nothing about it even though he had 14 posts. I even said something along the lines of “no one has claimed something with 14 post,” and Savant was quiet about that. My current read is that Savant was scum, and Supa shot correctly. Because he shot correctly and scum didn’t expect Supa would be a Vig, Supa wasn’t manipulated. The flip also establishes the long PM standard. I think we’re also forgetting that it’s conceivable Scum Banana could actually have a killing role, and she’s telling the truth about that piece. My only hesitation is why CC. I’d guess that it’s because she was already exposed with the PM link, and if she gets hammered or whatever, the hammerer dies due to her role. The behavior for Banana is also off, and the arguments she’s making about balance and two killing roles make more sense coming from someone more experienced vs Banana
I don't really like what I am seeing from banana either. If she is town, I will blame it on noobiness I guess, but there is usually never any benefit from withholding information from the town the way she is doing. 
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@ILikePie5
I’ll say that I still don’t like Banana. I also mentioned in DP that I thought Banana was hyperbolizing the 14 post. Savant said nothing about it even though he had 14 posts. I even said something along the lines of “no one has claimed something with 14 post,” and Savant was quiet about that.
I'm not sure how that's relevant to alignment? Regardless, it's Wylted we're talking about, consistency is not the norm.
My current read is that Savant was scum, and Supa shot correctly. Because he shot correctly and scum didn’t expect Supa would be a Vig, Supa wasn’t manipulated. 
That's definitely possible, I've seen flipless scum before. Could also be some other interference or a hidden aspect of Vader's role.
The flip also establishes the long PM standard. I think we’re also forgetting that it’s conceivable Scum Banana could actually have a killing role, and she’s telling the truth about that piece. My only hesitation is why CC. I’d guess that it’s because she was already exposed with the PM link, and if she gets hammered or whatever, the hammerer dies due to her role. 
So why claim the CC in the first place? Like to me, this feels like a 1-for-1 of her behavior after she claimed 3P in ERB. It doesn't make sense for her to CC, regardless of her role, unless she was about to be hammered.
The behavior for Banana is also off, and the arguments she’s making about balance and two killing roles make more sense coming from someone more experienced vs Banana
I get what you mean, but if she has someone experienced behind her, surely they would tell her not to CC so recklessly? I just struggle to see it as a planned scum play.