Hell Diary DP 1

Author: WyIted

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Mharman
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Another thing worth noting is that refusing to believe a claim, in spite of good evidence, is just as damaging as believing a claim too quickly.

I have some more thoughts on several things, but I think I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ll show my cards after I get some input from others on my thoughts.
Mharman
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On the thoughts I’ve expressed, obviously
AustinL0926
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uhhh well I said I wasn't going to be an /in until Sunday in the signups thread for a reason

currently on a trip, will be back tmrw night

my role is confirmable, doesn't exactly confirm my affiliation as well but it kinda does in the sense that it would be baffling for it to be a scum role lol
Barney
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@AustinL0926
Enjoy your trip!
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@AustinL0926
@WyIted
uhhh well I said I wasn't going to be an /in until Sunday in the signups thread for a reason

currently on a trip, will be back tmrw night
Yeah, you did mention it in the sign-ups. Since WyIted was aware of that, maybe we could get an extension on DP1 to ensure you can participate.

my role is confirmable, doesn't exactly confirm my affiliation as well but it kinda does in the sense that it would be baffling for it to be a scum role lol
More role confirmation. Interesting.

WyIted
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@whiteflame
Yeah, you did mention it in the sign-ups. Since WyIted was aware of that, maybe we could get an extension on DP1 to ensure you can participate.
I didn't announce it yet but that was the plan. So probably around 48 hours remain after this point. So it ends Tuesday at 6:30PM Eastern time
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@WyIted
I didn't announce it yet but that was the plan. So probably around 48 hours remain after this point. So it ends Tuesday at 6:30PM Eastern time
Much obliged.
WyIted
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I am also wondering if we should play with DP times a bit. Perhaps and i wouldn't jump right to this but a 7 days DP makes a lot of sense to accommodate some people who are less active nd perhaps have real lifes that interfere with posting too much. It could be the difference between a person who posts twice in a dp and 10 times
Vader
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@Barney
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I am assuming it is at any point based on the wording of the PM. but I asked to clarify
Alright.
Yep. It's anytime that I get 3 votes.

Vader
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@WyIted
Wouldn't be the worse idea. 7 day DP's though seems like a lot but it is not the worst idea
Vader
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It's definetly hard to get reads in this game and today is my work day so I am going to try to put my thoughts out on a sheet but a lot of the stuff I've been thinking have been pointed out my other members. I also think this game is going to be behavior inductive as well more than char and role analysis
Vader
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Also is it actually three, or three or more?
Sorry forgot to respond to this but it's 3 or more
ILikePie5
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Unvote

VTL Owen


Him giving reads right away is kinda odd. I don’t think he’s ever done that before. I distinctly remember me needing to tell him to give reads cause he “town read” everyonez
whiteflame
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@Vader
Yep. It's anytime that I get 3 votes.
Cool. We’ll see how this plays out then.
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@WyIted
I am also wondering if we should play with DP times a bit. Perhaps and i wouldn't jump right to this but a 7 days DP makes a lot of sense to accommodate some people who are less active nd perhaps have real lifes that interfere with posting too much. It could be the difference between a person who posts twice in a dp and 10 times
Not opposed to a longer DP, particularly if activity is low for a handful of players. That mainly just puts the end of the DP in our hands.
Vader
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So even going over some reads, 50% of what I'm looking is just fodder at this point in time and I don't have any deep analytical insights. But I do want to give some few insights

1. I haven't played with Mharman in a while so please correct me if I'm wrong, but something about his entry kind of irked me. It seems like he was trying to fish out for information from people. He asked me the question, but took it back right away knowing it was a bad question. He was also fishing out Pie pretty weirdly when he came in asking him about his roles logistics. If he does that normally as town then I'm wrong but it just seems like he's trying to find a NK target
2. My initial gut reaction is that there Luna and WF are going at each other as town. I think both interactions they've had with getting the ball rolling and such early on is more town leaning from WF, but also puts Luna is the town pile as well.
3. I find it hard the scum read GP in this game with that role and his initial strategy of early claiming. But yet again, what is stopping scum team from just claiming their roles and characters but just putting town bow on it

Overall, I don't have any real strong behavioral reads due the overall lack of some substance from players and also the major gap I've had playing with some of the people here

whiteflame
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@ILikePie5
Him giving reads right away is kinda odd. I don’t think he’s ever done that before. I distinctly remember me needing to tell him to give reads cause he “town read” everyonez
It’s a shift in behavior. Given that it’s been a while since he’s been in one of these games and how a lack of clarity on his reads has affected games in the past, it’s a welcome change, even if it’s off brand. 
JoeBob
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ill reread the dp then give thoughts
ILikePie5
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Town Reads: Pie, Vader, GP, Casey

Scum Reads: Owen

Null: Everyone else
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
It’s a shift in behavior. Given that it’s been a while since he’s been in one of these games and how a lack of clarity on his reads has affected games in the past, it’s a welcome change, even if it’s off brand. 
It’s definitely welcome, but a shift in behavior, which is often an indication of scum, as evidenced by last game
ILikePie5
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Actually, I’m going to add Banana to the list of scum reads. How do you know it’s about Israel Hamas and not relevant without reading it
ILikePie5
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Town Reads: Pie, Vader, GP, Casey, Austin (cause his role is town indicative)

Scum Reads: Owen, Banana

Null: Everyone else

JoeBob
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@WyIted
Perhaps and i wouldn't jump right to this but a 7 days DP makes a lot of sense to accommodate some people who are less active nd perhaps have real lifes that interfere with posting too much. It could be the difference between a person who posts twice in a dp and 10 times
As in DP lasting a whole week?
ILikePie5
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@Earth
What are your reads
WyIted
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@JoeBob
As in DP lasting a whole week?
Yes. My theory is that it would help ease the pressure of posting a lot, which might actually help us get more games or bigger games if somebody can sign up but be less pressured to post so often. If course 5 days and a 48 hour NP could also potentially be a good compromise. I don't know.
JoeBob
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So I haven't done this in a while so my reads may be a bit rusty.

For now I would say my town reads are Greyparrot and Ana are town read for me, and Vader is slight town read. Everyone else is a null read for me.

Greyparrot because of how fast he said his role, and the fact that he doesn't even know what it does doesn't seem like something scum Grey parrot would do.
Ana because I don't feel like scum Ana would do that kind of play of not reading 18 messages if they were scum.
JoeBob
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@WyIted
Ok 
Mharman
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@Vader
The reason why I asked that question is I don’t trust your claim. Not yet.

So I decided to ask the question to probe for what I’m thinking may be a fake claim for quick town cred. The idea being, if there’s no benefit to town other than confirming yourself, it may not mean much-as much as you say your role is explicitly townie, I’m not ready to buy it just yet.

From a game design standpoint, a role that requires one to get a few votes on themselves sounds like a role that gives the player an incentive to act a little suspicious, but not enough to get lynched. I feel like this type of role is a bit scummy; a type of role that encourages mafia to take some risk to gain a power. I get the sense there was an oversight on Wylted’s part- I don’t think he thought of how the player could just ask people to vote for him.

Of course, there’s a risk-reward in all of this. If I am completely wrong and push too hard on you for this, I run the risk of mafia gaining some information, which is why I decided the question I was asking was a bad idea. 

Thankfully, I dont just have to think about your role. I am VERY suspicious of people who bought your claim so quickly (same applies for Greyparrot’s). I mentioned this earlier, but I’ve been thinking about if scum is going to be quick to buy town’s claims this game… or if they are going to immediately throw shade. I’ve decided they would be quick to buy the first few claims, thinking “ah, I don’t want to look scummy pushing for something that town might take at face value.” Of course this means that some people who are too quick to believe a claim are town, but it also means scum is blending in among them.

Of course, because we dealing with so many claims, I get the sense that scum would have to twist themselves in a pretzel to throw shade on a claim at some point, and I believe we saw this with Banana’s claim. I was a little skeptical at first too, but I felt it was far less suspicious compared to your claim, Greyparrot’s claim, and Pie’s claim. And yet, her claim of having a long PM where she didn’t read all of it (probably because she didn’t need to read the entire thing to understand her role and justification) is the claim that garnered the most suspicion from others. I dont see how someone can be suspicious about Banana, but have absolutely nothing to say about anything else. I have an FoS on Lunatic and Pie for it. Pie I’m willing to give a (temporary) pass for it, but I’m starting to scumread Lunatic for it. Whether or not your claim is fake and you’re his teammate, or he’s buddying you, can be figured out later. I’m leaning toward you being his teammate tbh- but I suppose that, to lesser degree, I might let you cook. For now.

I would not be surprised if you and Pie are both bullshitting town, less for you than for Pie. Regardless, Lunatic is my top scumread right now.
Vader
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@ILikePie5
The thing I don't know how the PM is structured and how different it is from each person. Mine gave me my wincon, then my role, then the role justification. Then it gave me my character. But then the character justification had a shit on backstory that I read so idk. If that's how banana's was then IDK but if it wasn't I think there is reasonable suspicion 
Mharman
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I will add that I think Pie’s behavior and reasoning seem townier than Vader’s.