Teacher and student made headlines.

Author: Mall

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Savant
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@Best.Korea
health from sex depends purely on the age of the person you are having sex with
No, but it's a significant factor. Teachers especially have explicit and implicit authority over students. And even if the odds of abuse are low, the risk is big enough that it's dangerous.

indoctrinates them into feeling shame
The law does not require anyone to shame statutory rape victims. But an adult can easily shame them into having sex due to the power imbalance.

Law bans that too. 30% of sex offenders on the sex offender's list came on the list as children, some as young as 8.
It's nowhere near as strictly enforced on minors.
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@Best.Korea
This is an appeal to law fallacy.
As soon as the term "rape" was brought up, we were discussing legal terms.

did 12 year olds become dumber in the past 300 years, or is law self contradicting?
The law changed around the time we banned child labor and got stricter on child abuse. If we made a law to prevent exploitation, you should at least suspect there was a reason to go to that trouble.
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@Savant
Yeah, that's why the law exists. Because kids are very impressionable.
Even now, as an adult, I wish I had sex at an early age. Thus, if your assumption is that adults know better so adults should decide, it disproves your argument as person as adult agrees with his own decision as a child. So if person should decide when adult, then if person as adult decides that childhood experience was good, then by your own logic it was a good decision.
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@Best.Korea
Even now, as an adult, I wish I had sex at an early age.
You don't know what the psychological effects would have been though. People can also wish they did drugs as a kid, but that's way different from actually having done it.
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@Savant
You don't know what the psychological effects would have been though. 
I know what the effects would be. I would be happy that I got laid.
If something is beneficial or not is  determined by wishes alone. Thus, if I want something, it is beneficial by tautology. However, your argument was that adults know better so they get to decide, and now you say that even adults dont know and dont get to decide. So, who then, knows? Divine spirits?
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@Best.Korea
However, your argument was that adults know better so they get to decide
Adults (by majority) decided to make age of consent higher than 12.
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@Savant
As soon as the term "rape" was brought up, we were discussing legal terms.
So you concede to circular reasoning.

If rape is defined as having sex before 18, then saying that having sex before 18 is bad because its rape is circular reasoning.

This topic is about discussing morality. If your position is that law determines morality, then sure, go with that. But then you concede that your morality is determined by government and that your morality is self contradicting.

The law changed around the time we banned child labor and got stricter on child abuse. If we made a law to prevent exploitation, you should at least suspect there was a reason to go to that trouble
So you concede that law was wrong before and had to be changed, but you assume that it cannot be wrong now. However, different countries have different laws, so it is again contradicting.
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@Savant
Adults (by majority) decided to make age of consent higher than 12.
Appeal to popularity. If you think majority is always right, that is contradicting too, because majority happens to change its opinion too. Who is to say that in 100 years they wont come to an entirely different conclusion.
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@Best.Korea
At a certain point, Chesterton's fence applies. The law indicates that significant problems arose, at least for a large amount of people, to impose age restrictions. I would weigh even a small risk of psychological trauma as more pressing than sexual pleasure.
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@Savant
No, but it's a significant factor.
Thats just an assumption.

Teachers especially have explicit and implicit authority over students.
Which doesnt make the authority unhealthy or sex non-consensual.

And even if the odds of abuse are low, the risk is big enough that it's dangerous.
How big is the risk that you are ruining 3 lives here with your ban?

The law does not require anyone to shame statutory rape victims.
I never said that law requires it. However, society does it anyway.

But an adult can easily shame them into having sex due to the power imbalance.
If an action becomes wrong due to power imbalance, then all actions are wrong as there is always power imbalance. Thus, moral action doesnt exist. You talk of power imbalance, yet you dont see power imbalance of society which convinces children that what happened to them was horrible even if they wanted it, which makes children feel bad because they wanted it.
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@Best.Korea
all actions are wrong as there is always power imbalance
There's degrees of power imbalance. Kids are super impressionable, and they have to listen to adults basically all the time.
Mall
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@Best.Korea
Like I said I knew 12 year olds that were into their teachers but the law is the law due to age which is the technicality I'm talking about which makes it criminal.
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@Savant
There's degrees of power imbalance
Society and child contain greater power imbalance than a single individual and child, thus anything society does is wrong by your logic.
Mall
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@Lemming
Do you think 12 year old young men are into grown teachers?
Is that creepy?
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@Savant
It's nowhere near as strictly enforced on minors.
There were even shows in USA shaming children as young as 12 for having sex or getting pregnant. I already told you that 30% of sex offenders on the registry are children, so law very much punishes children for having sex. But not just law, but people around them also punish them if they catch them have sex.

Shila
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@Mall
Do you think 12 year old young men are into grown teachers?
Is that creepy?
He probably did it to get ahead of his class as promised by the teacher.
Mall
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@Savant
I'm just saying I knew of 12 year olds that were into their teachers. Maybe you can't relate to that, don't know nothing about that. 
So you can't get that out of this other than a predator and prey.
Mall
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@Savant
Yeah technicality of age.
Mall
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@Shila
Do you call a 12 year old throwing himself on top of a grown woman impregnating her , that woman physically forcing that 12 year old to do so?
Shila
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@Mall
I'm just saying I knew of 12 year olds that were into their teachers. Maybe you can't relate to that, don't know nothing about that. 
Then you shouldn’t be commenting on the incident. You are just airing your ignorance and biases.
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@Savant
At a certain point, Chesterton's fence applies. The law indicates that significant problems arose, at least for a large amount of people, to impose age restrictions.
That is circular reasoning. You are saying the law is right merely because it was imposed.

I would weigh even a small risk of psychological trauma as more pressing than sexual pleasure.
The weigh isnt between pleasure and trauma, but between harms of ban and benefits of ban. To make it simple, alcohol is harmful but banning alcohol is harmful as well.
Society worked for thousands of years with age of consent at 12 or lower. Even today, some countries have age of consent at age 12 or lower. Phillipines had age of consent at around 12, yet much lower suicide rates than in USA.
Also, if you care about harm, you also have to care about harm which happens to pedophiles due to ban, which then makes your argument self defeating.
Shila
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@Best.Korea
Also, if you care about harm, you also have to care about harm which happens to pedophiles due to ban, which then makes your argument self defeating.
If you can get an erection you are ready for sex.
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@Shila
If you can get an erection you are ready for sex.
Person at any age can have an erection lol
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@Mall
Like I said I knew 12 year olds that were into their teachers but the law is the law due to age which is the technicality I'm talking about which makes it criminal
When I was 12, all the guys in class were very much watching porn and talking about sex. They did make comments on teachers, but only on the hot ones tho.
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@Mall
technicality of age
In many developed countries, age of consent is 13 to 14.

Italy, France, Germany, even Japan at some point...

Some countries who have lower age of consent have specific laws in place to prevent abuse. Like, adult can have consensual sex with 14 year old, but he isnt allowed to abuse the relationship or exploit some weakness to get consent. They make difference between sex and abuse, a much better system than simply labeling all sex as abuse.
Shila
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@Best.Korea
When I was 12, all the guys in class were very much watching porn and talking about sex. They did make comments on teachers, but only on the hot ones tho.
So they were interested in porn and the hot teachers and not in each other.  Might explain why you turned trans.
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@Mall
"Do you think 12 year old young men are into grown teachers?
Is that creepy?"

I think a fair number of young people of various ages, including 12 year olds, are into grown teachers.

'Still a little bit creepy,
Doesn't matter if it exists as a bit normal state of affairs, something normal can still be creepy, I think.

I find the adult being attracted to someone that young a bit creepier though.


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@Shila
So they were interested in porn and the hot teachers and not in each other.  Might explain why you turned trans.
Well, the boys were definitely obsessed with sex. Not sure about girls tho, as I didnt talk to girls as much. I did hear few dirty comments from girls about grown men, but I think girls are a bit different than boys in this sense. Maybe not as obsessed.
Mall
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@Shila
Why's that?
Shila
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@Mall
Why's that?
You got your answer.

Well, the boys were definitely obsessed with sex. Not sure about girls tho, as I didnt talk to girls as much. I did hear few dirty comments from girls about grown men, but I think girls are a bit different than boys in this sense. Maybe not as obsessed.