I am a Christian now. Truth doesnt exist. Hail Hitler!

Author: Best.Korea

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#61
Shila
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@zedvictor4
So there is no actual evidence that a biblical character referred to as Jesus, died and rose again. Though certainly it can be hypothesised such, and ideas developed.

You should read “The case for the historical Jesus.”
#62
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@Shila
I've read cases many times.

And I never dispute the probable existence of a person, who is referred to as Jesus in historical Middle Eastern myth and folk tales.
#63
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@zedvictor4
Thanks for your thoughtful response. You're right that belief in Jesus involves more than just sensory or empirical evidence. History often relies on written records, and while ancient texts can be imperfect, the New Testament stands out for its early authorship, multiple independent sources, and consistency with archaeological findings. Even non-Christian historians like Tacitus and Josephus reference Jesus' crucifixion.
Regarding emotions as electrochemical responses, that's certainly one aspect. But measuring brain activity doesn't fully capture why we deeply love, grieve, or find meaning in life. Science can explain "how" but often struggles with "why."
Faith doesn't mean ignoring evidence but looking at a broader spectrum—including historical records, changed lives, and deeply personal encounters with God. I understand skepticism; it's reasonable. But I'd encourage you to explore whether there’s more to Jesus than just a historical figure. Skeptics like C.S. Lewis and Lee Strobel set out to disprove Christianity and came to believe based on the evidence they found.
Would you be interested in discussing what specific historical or philosophical points you find most challenging? I'd love to hear your perspective.
#64
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@Tradesecret
Would you be interested in discussing what specific historical or philosophical points you find most challenging? I'd love to hear your perspective.
You should read “The case for the historical Jesus.”

#65
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@Tradesecret
Well, basically the whole GOD Jesus myth was so obviously based upon the human condition, several thousand years ago in one very small region of Planet Earth.


Why just make yourself known to a few Arabian blokes?


So, the ideology spread as human intelligence spread across the globe. 

But GOD never seemed to take into account human intellectual and social evolution, which is odd considering it's omniscience.

For a GOD to do what it supposedly did, it must have been intellectually and technologically advanced...And yet it handed out it's social edict to Moses, chiselled onto lumps of rock.


And then there is the whole Mary Jesus palaver...Is that a sensible way for a supremely intelligent being to get a message across.

Nope, it's so obviously the product of human ignorance....As was the ten commandments  story....As was and still is everything transcribed to later bibles.



None of which is not to say that the GOD hypothesis is not reasonable...Or as I refer to it, Interventionist  Super-Intelligence...ISI.

Though the somewhat more logical ISI hypothesis, nonetheless comes with it's own set if imponderable questions.

The upside though, is that pointy buildings, singing hymns, praying and christmas are totally unnecessary...Rightly so in my opinion.


And the evolved emotional conditions you refer to, are just that.

I tend not to get too hung up on love, grief and meaning...The result of a pragmatic upbringing perhaps.


Over to you Trade.
#66
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@Tradesecret
1} no creator-of-Universe God exists except as a Meta-space mind/intellectual concept,

2} ancient life can be so awful that to find something to have faith or belief in, is an effort to bring peace to desperate peoples,

3} Christianity was spread via violent force, for the most part, if understand history correctly --im no expert---,

4} a common cause, belief or faith is good for the social condition to celebrate as one humanity under the stars { Sol } ---Universe---,

5} people need each other for support, for the most part, and they need to find commonality to avoid violence, or, to fight violence with violence.

...All-for-one and one-for-all... is the most important spiritual belief for humanity in general.

AI....."Divide and conquer" is a strategy that involves causing division among people to weaken them and make them easier to control.It can be used in many contexts, including politics, business, and personal relationships ".....

Universe divides into Fermionic matter { fields } and Bosonic forces { fields } and each of those has its subdivided particles { fields }.

Why? Is just eternally that way?  With an eternally existent occupied space Universe, do there exist times of only one common field?


#67
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@zedvictor4
The upside though, is that pointy buildings, singing hymns, praying and christmas are totally unnecessary...Rightly so in my opinion.
What are the alternatives in your opinion?
#68
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@Shila
Just another day.


#69
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@zedvictor4
1} no creator-of-Universe God exists except as a Meta-space mind/intellectual concept,

2} ancient life can be so awful that to find something to have faith or belief in, is an effort to bring peace to desperate peoples,

3} Christianity was spread via violent force, for the most part, if understand history correctly --im no expert---,

4} a common cause, belief or faith is good for the social condition to celebrate as one humanity under the stars { Sol } ---Universe---,

5} people need each other for support, for the most part, and they need to find commonality to avoid violence, or, to fight violence with violence.

...All-for-one and one-for-all... is the most important spiritual belief for humanity in general.

AI....."Divide and conquer" is a strategy that involves causing division among people to weaken them and make them easier to control.It can be used in many contexts, including politics, business, and personal relationships ".....

Universe divides into Fermionic matter { fields } and Bosonic forces { fields } and each of those has its subdivided particles { fields }.

Why? Is just eternally that way?  With an eternally existent occupied space Universe, do there exist times of only one common field? Does the common field actually have diversity i.e. not totally symmetrical?


#70
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@ebuc
Hi Ebuc.


Is the Universe eternally existent and occupied?

Or should I ask...Was the Universe always existent and occupied.

Maybe it wasn't but now is (potentially).


For me, it ceases to be a scientifically answerable question.

And becomes a mind game.
#71
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@zedvictor4
Hi Ebuc.

Hi zed. First of all let me say that I watcching doc. on Prime called The Vikings Last Voyage, and how King Charlemene violently tried force Christianity on the lower regions of the Danes{ Danish vikings } around late 700's or 800's.  Eventually, Vikings saw it was was to their advantage to allow them selves to be Baptized --whether the believe any of Christian stuff-- and this allowed to then have peaceful trade, and settlements within in this Saxony Coralinginans Europe of that time. 

Is the Universe eternally existent and occupied?
Please share when you have logical, common sense critical thinking --based on observed evidence--- that would lead you to believe otherwise.

Or should I ask...Was the Universe always existent and occupied.
Via logical, common sense critical thinking, based on what humans observe, then of course the answer is yes. Ex only occupied space { some things } ---ex a foot/soccer ball-- is functional for the sport if  they --humans, milk cartons etc---  has structural integrity to keep its shape.

Maybe it wasn't but now is (potentially).

Potential? Zed, there is potential for whatever is possible to, exist.  What is possible is limited and Ive repeatedly over the years presented at DArt, that, there is no potential for a 6th, symmetrical/regular, and convex, polyhedron to exist in Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts, or in occupied space.
I'm sure there are many other examples of what is limited --has a limit-- and just cant grab a another good one for you at moment.

For me, it ceases to be a scientifically answerable question.
What part of human existence does not involve the mind and all sorts of games of saying what is not possible to exist, to exist dynamic as an occupied space, and not just magic trick done with 3D pixels on 2D screen of a laptop.  Ex do you believe it is possible to have a biologic life, that is polka dotted Unicorn, produced in a Toyota car factory, based on your access to logical, common sense critical thinking based on the evidence your aware of?

Again I go back to the concept of limits of what is possible to exist.  Anyone can say yes it is possible to have 6th 7th etc regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedron, yet it lacks all of the above I mention already

And becomes a mind game.
I agree Zed, however, as presented above some mind games follow logical, common sense critical thinking based on what humans observe, others do not.

 If you want to believe, that, anything is possible, the more power to you.  That is not the path I choose to follow and would say those who do say because they believe that, are also playing a mind game  that will never lead to any occupied space existence.

Your a smart dude, yet I think there is some aspect of your traditional ways  conditioning keeps you wanting believe there is this Meta-space power, or intelligence or etc out there or in there or everywhere, that is going ride in a Unicorn like Zeus with the lightening power that can break any Meta-space, cosmically finite principles

For Charlemene it was Christian God. For others some else. For me it is an eternally existence set of interfering --more at less in all of eternity---fields, that, composed our Universe, and some of those fields may come and out of existence, yet never the whole as sumtotal of cosmic accounting i.e., maybe it for a brief moments becomes one kind of a cosmic field, the diversifies again.

And repeats eternally those comings and goings of a vairious fields, the one common field, then diversifies. I dunno the specifics over and eternity regarding finite limits of Universe transformations.

#72
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@zedvictor4
@ebuc
@Sidewalker

Remember that we are on stage tonight!
#73
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@FLRW
Yep.

I'm buff and oiled.
#74
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@ebuc
As I see it.

Potential is eternal.

Stuff begs an explanation.

And meta-space power or intelligence would require the same answers.

Interim events may or may not be necessary or purposeful.
#75
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@zedvictor4
Yep.

I'm buff and oiled.
You still look like a mutt.
#76
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@Shila

Zed is the person on my left in my pfp.
#77
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@Shila

Ebuc is on my right.
#78
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@Shila

Wink, wink
#79
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@zedvictor4
As I see it. Potential is eternal.
Zed, as I see it, the use of the word " potential " with a specific reference to other this or that, is sort of meaningless mind game via use of only that word. No offense intented

Stuff begs an explanation.

Stuff? Are you refering to any of my previous comments in #71?  Occupied space, and use of word something as reference specifically to occupied space. Is that your stuff your refering to?  I also gave examples of foot/soccer ball ergo, 3D volume of an occupied space something.

And meta-space power or intelligence would require the same answers.
Access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts via human nervous system and to whatever degree perhaps some other animals is pattern of recall abilities,  formulated in our nervous system, from which more and more complexities arise with those abilities.

Why humans have access more than animals may have to do with integration of those memories into correlated pattern firings in our nervous system.

With this greater access humans greatest attribute is to be able to generalize specific patterns via our development of more complex language. Other animals have great attributes yet they are more specifics t a few special-case tasks, and not the ability to integrate those memories into more complex generalities expressed in more complex language patterns.

Interim events may or may not be necessary or purposeful.

Sorry you lost me here with this sentence.  I ask again for you to give logical, common sense critical thinking responses ---based on human evidence---, to your beliefs, as  presented by you in #70. 

Various kinds of human mind games zed, that, we all play in differrent ways and some times overlapping or exactly the same way.  Sorry we dont have a chat with microphone and video ability to communicate. Ive been doing that some lately on a Discord server I joined a week or so ago.  I have a Discord server called ' Theory of Everything Universe ', that,

I tried today get channel for vid and microphone happening. Couldnt figure it out. It may cost money to have those features I dunno. Still learning about it. Ha I figured out and didnt know I had done it. Now I have to many of them of almost the same name. No figure out to delete them

#80
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@zedvictor4
Note Zed, in #79 I mispoke and meant to write without a specific

Zed, as I see it, the use of the word " potential " with a specific reference to other this or that
#81
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@ebuc
We've discussed this before.


Time and Space are eternal potential.

Stuff is that which occupies and develops.

Interim events are relative occurrences and development.

Relative to Time, Space and Stuff.

As a thinking organism caught up in universal events, I would suggest that the above is a basic understanding of the universe, rather than a belief.

Other than that, I speculate as to whether or not a universe is predestined, either by influence, or more so by physical law, to inevitably proceed in a certain way towards a conclusion.

Given that we think we exist and are aware of material development, especially in terms of technological progress, I therefore also speculate upon why this would be so.

By chance or for a purpose.

I then further speculate as to whether the unfulfillment of any role within a universal process would therefore lead to a universal failure.

For example, the inability to reinitiate from an entropic state to an ectropic state....The GOD principle if you like.


And of course, the thinking organism will inevitably wonder how matter can exist at all.
#82
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@zedvictor4
Time and Space are eternal potential.

Potential what specifically? Observed { quantised and quantified } time and space { occupied and truly non-occupied } exist and that I agree with.

Stuff is that which occupies and develops.

Occupied space Ive already laid out clearly many times. A something and your preference is word stuff. Ok
Occupied space Universe is dynamically transformative and you prefer word ' develops '. Ok

Interim events are relative occurrences and development.

' Interim ' .." in the meanetime "....Yes we wever established many times occupied space events and interim time between various events exists. within context of Einstiens relativity. I agree

Relative to Time, Space and Stuff.

Relativity { Einstein } exists in respect to time and occupied space { stuff? }, yes. Of course.

As a thinking organism caught up in universal events, I would suggest that the above is a basic understanding of the universe, rather than a belief.

Yes, as a human organism Ive been stating all of this for years without use of --or much use of--- words stuff, interim. Many synonyms exist. Ok
All  humans --that includes Zed---  have beliefs based on their observations and resultant understandings of those observations. Ive been laying that out clearly for years. Great!

Other than that, I speculate as to whether or not a universe is predestined, either by influence, or more so by physical law, to inevitably proceed in a certain way towards a conclusion.

Finite, occupied space Universe is eternally existent. 1st law of thermodynamics is one law of two laws of conserveration that point in direction of such eternal existence.

Naught is created nor destroyed only transformed, and again Ive bee saying that for years. Ergo eternally existent

If you agree, then that is great, If you dont, then I think your lacking some logical, common sense critical thinking on that specific issue.

Given that we think we exist and are aware of material development, especially in terms of technological progress, I therefore also speculate upon why this would be so.

So you like words material and stuff. I prefer two words that covers all those synonyms. Occupied space. Simple, no confusion with what is meant.

Development = eternally existent, dynamic transformations our finite, occupied space Universe. Clear and simple.

Yes humans think they exist. And with good reason.  If others want to question whether they exist, tap there self on head with knucles and feel and hear. Simple.

By chance or for a purpose.

Only humans apply/assign a  ' purpose ' for any and all actions, including the eternally existent, dynamically transforming, finite, occupied space Universe.

Universe just IS. Universe does not contemplate a purpose. If you think it does, then conditioning has led to some incorrect belief system.

I then further speculate as to whether the unfulfillment of any role within a universal process would therefore lead to a universal failure.
1st laws, naught is created nor destroyed --your word is failure-- only in eternal dynamic transformation.  teh 1st law integrity and humans observe integrity in techological creations by humans ---ex structure { triangulation of walls } of house, and biologic cells that live and die.  Yes there are the immortal jelly fish that return to there polystage, so it appears there is a core there of biology that does not disintegrate.

Been while since I researched those jellies. However,  there cells may very well die off even as new ones grow. THink of salamander that have cells that regrow a leg.

Yet, if the core poly of jellie is no in proper water environment the integrity disintegrates.

We dont know that the proton has a natural decay rate, yet is pressumed it has one, only that is many years before it occurs

For example, the inability to reinitiate from an entropic state to an ectropic state....The GOD principle if you like.
I have no idea what your God principle is. Even after all these years of you repeating such words.

Eternally dynamic, transformative, finite, occupied Universe.  Ive been very clear with use your words above


And of course, the thinking organism will inevitably wonder how matter can exist at all.
Yeah Universe and all of is part are strange.  The more we observe some of those parts, the more the become less strange to us.

A stranger is someone we have not met before. Over time they become less strange to us we get to know them. Generally speaking we find the commnalities with ourselves and for most part all is cool

There is of course those whose behaviiour is a little to strange and may make us uncomfortable so we may try and avoid them. So it goes.

There is no avoiding the eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe, except with death of the biologic organsims that is eaten/absorbed by bacteria > fungus > fertiliszer/syntropic integration with  forest, etc.  Eternally dynamic transformations of biologic life, unless it is killed off on Earth or elesewhere in Universe

#83
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@ebuc
Naught is created nor destroyed, only transformed.

Yep I agree, but within the current limits of our understanding of everything...(Though this does not make the question of material existence go away).

Nonetheless, if matter is transformed from a developing state to an entropic state...Then what?

Does matter within the boundless eternity of time and space just separate and fizzle out.

Or.

Does the process of material development restart or reinitiate...If so, how?

GOD principle (Not a magic bloke) that develops as matter evolves.

Or.

An infinite by variable Space...Wherein matter once again reaches a point of finite confinement from where it is once again re energized.

An eternal sequence of universal bladders if you like.




#84
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@FLRW
Wink, wink
Wh6 cover your eyes if you want people to see you are winking?
#85
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@Shila
Winking.

Was that a typo.
#86
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@zedvictor4
Winking.

Was that a typo.
Unless you were doing something else with your eyes closed.
#87
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@zedvictor4
Its real simple Zed, eternally regenerative, dynamically, transforming, occupied space Universe.

If you cant grasp this simple scenario, then not much I else I can say over and over again to aid you understanding the above.

#88
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@ebuc
Eternally regenerative.
I think that I suggested that.


And you yourself have just referred to regeneration, after previously referring to transformation.

And I addressed those exact issues.


Transforming occupied space.
Yep, that is what I alluded to.


Dynamism.
For sure, I suggested that too.


Though inertia is another option, Newtons first Law and all that.


Unfortunately we cannot see billions of years into the future.

So we make best guesses based upon current understanding.

And as the Universe progresses and understanding develops, then so do best guesses develop also.
#89
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@zedvictor4
I think that I suggested that.

You may have Zed, yet your not using those words.

Unfortunately we cannot see billions of years into the future.

We can and do anticipate this or that, based on what we humans have observed and this is why in the late 1800's scientists invoked concept of 1st law of thermodynamic conservation ...naught is created nor destroyed ergo eternally.

So we make best guesses based upon current understanding.
Thats correct Zed. Humans assume the fermionic proton has a natural decay rate based on most or all of other known fermions having a natural decay rate.

Five and only five regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra are not a  guess.  Humans know ---not a guess-- there are eternally exist cosmic principles ergo finite limits of what is possible with Universe or the parts compose it.

And as the Universe progresses and understanding develops, then so do best guesses develop also.

Ive been sick and tired for two days with covid for the first time Zed. So sorry if I ended with not much reply last time. Ex you mention entropy and does Universe just fizzle out.  Well of course eternally existent means Universe does not fizzle out ---naught is destroyed----.

After good nights sleep, I realized an a possible transformation of Universe that is likened to your fizzle out comment is that of the older idea of heat death of Universe via entropy.

1} >>>simplest answer<<< I ever read of that, ---and have offerrred various geometric scenarios here at DArt addressing Heat Death of Universe over the years--- was that Universe becomes one very ultra-large, ultra-long wave { low frequency } --ergo nearly flat--   single photon. In this scenario no total energy is lost, only spread out, even tho it is a finite, limited lowest frequency of EMRadiation.

The sum total of energy of Universe still exists, and only transformed to an ultra-large { spread out } pattern of existence of all of its occupied space energy.

At that time, and to this day I offer this Euclidean --static not dynamic-- graphic of the 3D Vector Equlibrium{ VE } aka a cubo-octahedron as a flatten subdivided triangle defined by the original 8 surface triangles of the VE.  A finite 3D volume flattened and spread out to very thin, yet never loosing its structural { triangulated } integrity. 
http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s04/figs/f6108.html

From the semi-flattened out 2D version, it unfolds back to the easily visisble 3D VE, does this infolding collaspe { Heat Deat semi-2D } and the out-folding expansion to the visible 3D volume, repeat eternally

I wont go into the more complex versions of this I presented over the years





#90
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@zedvictor4
So we make best guesses based upon current understanding.

And as the Universe progresses and understanding develops, then so do best guesses develop also.
What is your best guess?