Choose Your Role DP1

Author: Lunatic

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WyIted
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@whiteflame
What I asked was when during the NP does your role apply, i.e. does your target get to use their current role during the NP that you switch their role, or do they use their new role instead?
I am pretty sure the role takes effect the next np. I think I asked in a stupid way so that's why I got unexpected feedback. I think he interpreted my question to be when does he change roles

I don't know about the CC aspect. I put it out for others. I don't buy into it much either.  It's just a piece of evidence I find mostly irrelevant but others may not.
AustinL0926
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Don't know why you'd post a vote on yourself since it's automatically placed on the lynch. I get the gesture, but it's kind of pointless.
Town's not going to reeval and lynch the obvious scum since changing reads is seen as a level 0 scummy play, if scum want the opportunistic mislynch might as well make it easier so we can move on to the next day
whiteflame
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@AustinL0926
Town's not going to reeval and lynch the obvious scum since changing reads is seen as a level 0 scummy play, if scum want the opportunistic mislynch might as well make it easier so we can move on to the next day
Not that it makes it easier for you to put your vote there instead of automatically self-hammering, but whatever.
Lunatic
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Official Vote Count:

Savant- 2/5- wylted, Greyparrot
Austin- 3/5- Pie, vader, austin

WyIted
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@whiteflame
I just got clarification. They in fact do adopt their new ability the same exact night I change them. So we can actually prevent a nk tonight if I use it on GP
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@whiteflame
As I said, I'd prefer the Savant lynch right now. He's at L-1 from what I can see, though, given the Hammerer role. So I'm not placing my vote yet. I'd also be willing to lynch Pie, mainly to ascertain the truth of his information. I understand that you see him as town as do many others, though I'm still not so sure.
Pie is town, mostly confident enough to bet the game on it.

He's preemptively taking credit for a lynch in a manner that is extremely uninformed of my alignment. Scum doesn't say that *his* information guarantees I'm scum, scum doesn't say that *he* found a scumslip. If you go through past games, scum disproportionately are players who hop on bandwagons or casually egg on town-vs-town violence, not the ones who initiate pushes.

whiteflame
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@WyIted
So, once again, to clarify: it takes effect on the same night before they use their role, correct?
WyIted
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I think pie has forced himself into a position where he is scum if he doesn't push
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@whiteflame
Yes
Earth
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VTL Austin
whiteflame
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@AustinL0926
Pie is town, mostly confident enough to bet the game on it.

He's preemptively taking credit for a lynch in a manner that is extremely uninformed of my alignment. Scum doesn't say that *his* information guarantees I'm scum, scum doesn't say that *he* found a scumslip. If you go through past games, scum disproportionately are players who hop on bandwagons or casually egg on town-vs-town violence, not the ones who initiate pushes.
Austin, his basis for saying that you are scum is that his information demonstrates that scum will have roles in the two Categories to which town does not have access, and that your post suggested that they do as well despite having come before he revealed his info. I disagree with his take-away, as do you. I'll point out, though, that if you flip town, that doesn't disprove his information in any way. He can write that off as either a misinterpretation of what you posted or you being scummy without cause. His information could still be correct.

As for whether scum would do what he's doing, I'll point out that this is far from a first for Pie. He is often aggressive whether he's scum or town, and yes, that includes leading lynches on town in both roles. It's riskier, but Pie's gotten by on risky plays before.

I'm not saying any of this makes him scummy, and I understand why people are leaning town on him behaviorally, I just don't understand why anyone is townreading his role (which, again, is unprovable without either flipping scum or his own flip).
Lunatic
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Official Vote Count:

Savant- 2/5- wylted, Greyparrot
Austin- 4/5- Pie, vader, austin, earth


whiteflame
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Anyway, I'm heading to lunch and I'll try to figure out where I'd like to go with this afterwards. I've said I prefer the Savant lynch to the Austin lynch and I still do.
WyIted
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@Earth
You said you don't prefer a lunch so why aren't you going with savant right now. You aren't risking a no lynch. I will be on at the last minute to hammer Austin if no lynch goes through on savant. I just need your support here.
Greyparrot
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@Earth
Don't play the lazy game this time, Town has a real chance at getting scum here and you are blowing it.
Savant
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@WyIted
Why are you not placing your vote?
Just saw this, and I'm not about to hammer now unless we get close to the deadline.
Earth
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Hold on, isn't Austin the Hammerer?
Savant
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Don't know why you'd post a vote on yourself since it's automatically placed on the lynch.
See these are the things from Austin that come off as manipulative and scummy to me. And I've seen more of them in this day phase than I'd like.
Earth
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@WyIted
Ah, already voting. Doesn't matter really. 

@Wylted 

I said I don't mind either Austin or Savant. Im voting Austin. Whats the issue?
Savant
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@Earth
That's his claim, yeah. But his vote is already on himself. He doesn't double vote.
Savant
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@WyIted
We got votes to kill Austin, and right now he's who I'd pick. We should have more of a back and forth and my read might change, but that's unlikely. Once we're about to hit the deadline, I'll hammer.
Earth
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@Savant
If you think Austin is scum, why don't you just hammer?
Savant
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@Earth
Ok, sure.

VTL Austin
Savant
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That's a hammer.
Greyparrot
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@Earth
The issue is that Savant is scum, so vote for scum.
Earth
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Okay, so you were waiting for more reads, but when I push you, you decide to hammer?
Greyparrot
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@Earth
Dude, you just now figured out he was scum?
WyIted
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@Earth
Ah, already voting. Doesn't matter really.
It does matter because this is town vs scum and it's odd to side with scum
Savant
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@Earth
Okay, so you were waiting for more reads, but when I push you, you decide to hammer?
I don't care that much, and it seemed like you were getting cold feet because I wasn't hammering. Austin is sus anyway, so I'd rather just get the lynch.
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@WyIted
Alright, I slept in later than I intended to, but I'm up, and I have a few thoughts. 

It's been a while since I've played a game with Savant, but one particular thing I remember about him is that I always found myself leaning scum on him every game, even though he was town. Being aggressively defensive when pushed is actually a towntell for him. As scum, he's a lot more accepting of pressure. Based on his behavioral meta, I'm inclined to believe he's town. 

As for the supposed CC:

Also Savant literally just claimed role blocker. I got bus driver and redirector as options. How many scummy roles do you think lunatic gave town?
Manipulation and Role Prevention were always going to be inherently scummy categories. Given the open setup, I don't think it's that crazy for both to be town. Why do you think it's so unlikely?