Atheists that believe no God exists due to no evidence known is a weak basis.

Author: Mall
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#271
Shila
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@Double_R
You said critical thinking makes you an atheist.
The use of critical thinking is what made me an atheist, yes.

Not sure if that was intended to make a further point.
So it is not based on facts or evidence that made you an atheist according to your confession.
#272
Hero1000
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@Mall
I can't say any of those statements are true for the agnostic I'm taking about.
In that case that, combined with your answer of "No." to the question I gave, allows me the ability to say that neither statement is true of the atheist either. Or at the very least, that your dichotomy is insufficient on its own to conclude that one of the two statements must be true for the atheist.

As far as atheists, people that learn and are taught things of the world, science, academics, biology, etc., begin to question, receive answers and so forth come to a conclusion and decide how God enters into the secular realm of understanding, they decide to reject there is a God which is different from a theist rejecting that there is not a God.
Could you elaborate on what "reject there is a God" means exactly?

And could you elaborate on what "rejecting there is not a God" also means? Additionally, does "rejecting there is not a God" always necessarily require "affirming positively that there is a God" ?
#273
Shila
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@Mall
I can't say any of those statements are true for the agnostic I'm taking about.

As far as atheists, people that learn and are taught things of the world, science, academics, biology, etc., begin to question, receive answers and so forth come to a conclusion and decide how God enters into the secular realm of understanding, they decide to reject there is a God which is different from a theist rejecting that there is not a God.
Theist definition: a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.
#274
Stephen
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@Mall
 do you believe the spirit of God as mentioned in John 4:24, exists?

And does John actually define and or explain what "spirit of god" actually is? 
And while we are on the subject, can you define or explain what "spirit of god" actually is? 
So you don't know what a spirit [of god] is so you don't know if you believe in one, is that right?
Case closed

Neither do you.  

Well hence why you see what you believe are contradictions in scripture. You even struggle with the plain scripture of John 4:24.

John does not and never has defined or explained what "the spirit of god". And neither does the bible. And neither have you or can you.

The "spirit of god" is nothing more than a concept.

Now we can call it " case closed"  thicko.





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#275
Mall
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@Double_R
Didn't I say you were right ?
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#276
Mall
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@Stephen
Yes case closed.
#277
Double_R
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@Shila
The use of critical thinking is what made me an atheist, yes.
So it is not based on facts or evidence that made you an atheist according to your confession.
Do you know what critical thinking is?
#278
Double_R
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@Mall
Didn't I say you were right ?
I can't tell, because you continue to assert something that contradicts what I said.
#279
Shila
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@Double_R
Do you know what critical thinking is?
Yes, even biblical scholars apply critical thinking .

What is the biblical view of critical thinking?
Critical thinking enables us to establish that doctrines central to the Christian faith are based solidly on scripture, reason, and available evidences. We find that these doctrines stand up to a careful examination. Hard questions are welcome, since solid answers await them.

#280
Double_R
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@Shila
The use of facts and evidence is literally built into the definition of critical thinking, so why would you claim that my "confession" that my atheism comes from the use of critical thinking mean that I didn't use facts and evidence to come to my position?
#281
FLRW
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@Shila

Every religion has God as its central figure.God is universal in all religions.
That is because everyone has a father.
#282
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Hmmm, should I believe Stephen Hawking or Pastor Jim Bakker?
#283
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@Mall
What about apatheism:

“An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods do exist or do not exist. The existence of a god or gods is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant.”

Do you believe that is also a religion?
#284
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Every religion has God as its central figure.God is universal in all religions.
Nonsense, there are plenty of religions that do not have a God or Gods as a central part of their beliefs or practices.

Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Jainism, and most interpretations of Hinduism to name a few, and there are minor branches of other religions, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that can also be considered nontheistic.

Bad bot.

#285
Hero1000
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@Double_R
I think Shila might've interpreted your statements as "Critical thinking is the domain of atheism and not theism" or "Critical thinking is more so the domain of atheism than it is the domain of theism" and was objecting to that.
#286
ebuc
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@Sidewalker
Bad bot.

Then there is the individuals personal religion, and that is the reality of practice of any religion followers i.e. they make adjustments as they see fit in their daily lives

1} God =  the eternally existent, Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego--- ex humans who conceptually place their conceptual self outside of conceptually finite Universe as if they exist as a conceptual God looking back in a that finite conceptual Universe, held in its conceptual his/her/their/its hands, ergo fantasy land aspects of the mind as imagination

2} the eternally existent, macro-infinite truly non-occupied space, that, embraces/surrounds the following,

3 } the eternally dynamic { in motion } --aka the only perpetual motion machine---  finite, occupied space Universe, and then begins its three primary subcatagories 
....3a} Observed -reality ^v^v- Time{ OT } aka.... quantization and quantification of Fermionic matter and Bosinic forces  ..........space.............( ^v^v)(^v^v)..........space....... simplistic concept

.....3b} Gravity (  ) aka positive geodesic of curved space

......3c} Dark Energy )(  aka negative geodesic of curved space

Ergo  a gross generalization as:

3B}.....space... and Gravities trajectory pulls inward (>  <) inward...space.... at just less than 90 degrees to the radial center of spherical composed of tori, and,
3A} ----OT reality exists between outer /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/sine-wave\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/and inner surface set of nodal events------
3C} ....space....Dark Energies trajectory pushes outward <)(> outward.....space.....at just less than 90 degrees to the radial center of a spherical composed of tori

Those two are two, 180 degree opposing phenomena of the same torus.

Note: Ultra-micro Gravity and ultra-micro Dark Energy remain invisible to observation i.e. remains non-quantised and as yet non-quantified.

All else is just the ' bot '-tom-of-the-barrel scraping for a bare minimal set of  logical, common sense critical thinking.


#287
Shila
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@Sidewalker
Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Jainism, and most interpretations of Hinduism to name a few, and there are minor branches of other religions, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that can also be considered nontheistic.


The claim of Non-theism is not completely true because the Buddhist suttas and sutras make reference to all sorts of supernatural beings who inhabit the universe, from ghosts, demi-gods, devas, and brahmās to celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas.  The Buddha, himself, is often described as ”a teacher of gods and men”.  The ghosts, devas, and brahmās are reborn into their own realms, and the celestial buddhas reside in Pure Lands.  As you might imagine, all of this leads to a very complicated cosmological space.  At times these beings visited the Buddha in our world.  At times he went to their realms to teach the Dharma.

Hinduism is a polytheist religion . Buddhism and Jainism are offshoots of Hinduism but emphasizing moral guidelines instead of divinity or deities. Islam , Judaism and Christianity are monotheistic religions.
#288
Sidewalker
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@ebuc
Both sides of this debate have dumbed it down so far to as to turn it into a meaningless circle jerk.  In the interest of sharpening doctrinal debate and strengthening their respective positions for a puerile internet discussion, both sides insist on a dumbed down literalism that reveals a complete ignorance of the subject matter and makes it clear that both sides have no understanding of either Christianity or science.

One side thinks they are all grown up and so very smart because they no longer believe in an invisible man in the sky who grants wishes, and comically call that “critical thinking”.  The so called “Christian” side has dumbed it down to an absurd biblical literalism that makes the Bible remote and irrelevant, and quite frankly, doesn’t make sense. To treat the text as merely a literal description of very unusual events that occurred in the distant past, completely obfuscates the profound truths to which the symbolic narrative imparts, it negates the text and consequently, eliminates any chance that it could foster religious awareness.

I can’t help but presume that it simply results from lack of mental capacity to grasp a more intelligent understanding.  True intelligence is mental expansion, which is to say, it involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the contention that one can reduce reality to only one of its modes, to know it in only one of its forms, is an unintelligent claim. 

Religious narratives achieve greatness because of their power to generate meanings, not because of their value as an historical record, and certainly not to be a scientific text, both sides attempt a reinterpretation of the transcendent dimension in the Biblical narrative that defines it as religious in the first place.
#289
Shila
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@Sidewalker
True intelligence is mental expansion, which is to say, it involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the contention that one can reduce reality to only one of its modes, to know it in only one of its forms, is an unintelligent claim. 
Wide range of truths unknown to the average reader.

The claim of Non-theism is not completely true because the Buddhist suttas and sutras make reference to all sorts of supernatural beings who inhabit the universe, from ghosts, demi-gods, devas, and brahmās to celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas.  The Buddha, himself, is often described as ”a teacher of gods and men”.  The ghosts, devas, and brahmās are reborn into their own realms, and the celestial buddhas reside in Pure Lands.  As you might imagine, all of this leads to a very complicated cosmological space.  At times these beings visited the Buddha in our world.  At times he went to their realms to teach the Dharma.

Hinduism is a polytheist religion . Buddhism and Jainism are offshoots of Hinduism but emphasizing moral guidelines instead of divinity or deities. Islam , Judaism and Christianity are monotheistic religions.

#290
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Jainism, and most interpretations of Hinduism to name a few, and there are minor branches of other religions, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that can also be considered nontheistic.
The claim of Non-theism is not completely true because the Buddhist suttas and sutras make reference to all sorts of supernatural beings who inhabit the universe, from ghosts, demi-gods, devas, and brahmās to celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas.  The Buddha, himself, is often described as ”a teacher of gods and men”.  The ghosts, devas, and brahmās are reborn into their own realms, and the celestial buddhas reside in Pure Lands.  As you might imagine, all of this leads to a very complicated cosmological space.  At times these beings visited the Buddha in our world.  At times he went to their realms to teach the Dharma.

Hinduism is a polytheist religion . Buddhism and Jainism are offshoots of Hinduism but emphasizing moral guidelines instead of divinity or deities. Islam , Judaism and Christianity are monotheistic religions.
Oh look, bot has AI access, so what, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", I refuted this inane statement with facts. 

This AI ramble about non-theism doesn't change anything, nothing you said here implies that Buddhism, Hinduism, or Jainism have "God as its central figure", you still do not know what you are talking about. 

Bad bot.
#291
Shila
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@Sidewalker
Oh look, bot has AI access, so what, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", I refuted this inane statement with facts.

This AI ramble about non-theism doesn't change anything, nothing you said here implies that Buddhism, Hinduism, or Jainism have "God as its central figure", you still do not know what you are talking about.

nontheistic religions are religions that do not focus on belief in god(s)
The Buddha said that devas (translated as "gods") do exist, but they were regarded as still being trapped in samsara,[3] and are not necessarily wiser than humans. In fact, the Buddha is often portrayed as a teacher of the gods,[4] and superior to them.[5] Except gods who are considered as manifestations of Buddhas such as the five Jambhalas and the devas who reside in Pure Abodes and other deities such as Tara based on some Buddhist traditions.[
#292
Sidewalker
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@ebuc
Then there is the individuals personal religion, and that is the reality of practice of any religion followers i.e. they make adjustments as they see fit in their daily lives
The truth of the Bible is a truth that resonates from within, the Bible is a guide to inner reality rather than outer reality, and Christianity is, and must be, a choice one makes, it loses meaning if you remove faith from the equation. The man the Bible is about spoke of his Father'shouse as one that "has many mansions" and he said "Neither shallthey say, Lo here! or, lo there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you."  I think you need to read it with the heart rather than intellect and to do so we must change the focus from actively pondering the externalevents to passively opening to the internal, transcendent knowledge within.

Consequently, I read the Bible to be inspired by its pages. I do not go to it as though it were an unyielding oracle that related once and for all the will of God in a literal manner. This is to make the Bible a pretentious idol, a barrier to creative and personal thought, and a myth. I do not accept the Biblical myth that many try to impose on me, I do accept the Bible as a profound work of both historical and current significance, and for me, the myth of the Bible is nothing compared to the reality.

I go to the Bible to read about a man named Jesus Christ. A man who rarely spoke of himself, and who almost never spoke about the detached metaphysical constructs so many focus on; apparently those kinds of intellectual disputes just weren't important to him and I choose to believe this was because He understood how these matters could digress into divisive contrasts and disunity. His words, his actions, and his life had nothing whatsoever to do with divisiveness and disunity.

It is simply enough for me to know that the things He did and said caused His contemporaries to think of Him in completely new dimensions and that there was something to this man's life that caused those who knew it best to reach the conclusion that it was divine in nature. The divisive contentions about whether or not he actually rose from the grave in bodily form just do not matter to me. It is enough for me to know that his spirit jumped dramatically to life after his death and that because of this he gave millions and millions of people hope that they never had before.

I have chosen to see and try to understand the Christ beyond the Biblical myth.



#293
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Oh look, bot has AI access, so what, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", I refuted this inane statement with facts.

This AI ramble about non-theism doesn't change anything, nothing you said here implies that Buddhism, Hinduism, or Jainism have "God as its central figure", you still do not know what you are talking about.

nontheistic religions are religions that do not focus on belief in god(s)
The Buddha said that devas (translated as "gods") do exist, but they were regarded as still being trapped in samsara,[3] and are not necessarily wiser than humans. In fact, the Buddha is often portrayed as a teacher of the gods,[4] and superior to them.[5] Except gods who are considered as manifestations of Buddhas such as the five Jambhalas and the devas who reside in Pure Abodes and other deities such as Tara based on some Buddhist traditions.[
Bot can't even grasp the subject matter enough to know what to ask the Google AI, Shila is just an irrelevant, non-sequitur Bot.
#294
Shila
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@Sidewalker
Bot can't even grasp the subject matter enough to know what to ask the Google AI, Shila is just an irrelevant, non-sequitur Bot.

Do Buddhists pray to Awakened Beings such as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas? The answer is yes. This may come as a surprise to many people who have heard that there is no God in Buddhism. I don’t think it is as easy as all that to say there is no God in Buddhism.
#295
Sidewalker
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@ebuc
Understanding the context of the historical Jesus in conjunction with an honest reading of the New Testament challenges many of the cherished and comforting beliefs held by Christians today. There is little historical evidence that Jesus thought of himself as divine, probably the only title he actually gave Himself was Son of Man. The Jesus of the Bible is not always omnipotent, or omniscient, and He does not appear to think of himself as divine. He didn't claim for himself anything that he did not claim for all of humanity, He rarely spoke of himself and His message was not about believing in him.

Understand, this does nothing to prove those cherished beliefs are wrong; it is not to say that the things that were implicit in his life and teachings were not made explicit later and done so correctly and it is not to say that He was just a man, and that he was not also God and Savior.

Is it possible that Jesus had a higher understanding that he tried to impart to us and if we understood it properly, it would become evident that both conceptions are true? That is what most Christian churches claim through the Trinity concept anyway isn’t it?

Maybe it is the historical Jesus that has a message for those who have turned away from Christianity as well as for those of completely different faiths. By allowing those who cannot embrace his tremendous impact because of disputations regarding his human or divine status to embrace what he actually said and did, maybe the emerging historical vision of Christ could eliminate the petty pursuits and trifling quarrels and through fellowship with the internal life, cut across political and ecclesiastical boundaries by penetrating beneath the external surface of all of mankind’s divisive religious doctrines.

Maybe seeing how the historical Jesus reacted to the violence, corruption, and political and religious oppression he faced may help us all to see how the "Christ force" might act in our world today and with what passion and unambiguous focus we may challenge the similar circumstances we face. Paying attention not to disputes about his divine status but to what he actually said and did could allow us all to get past any intellectual detachment and take his actions and words more seriously while applying them more practically and with greater urgency to the real problems the world faces today. Jesus rarely if ever spoke of his own experiences, he seemed to believe his actions and his presence spoke louder than any words and certainly more than any of the detached metaphysical constructs that cause so much dispute and divisiveness. He didn't speak much about metaphysics at all and there is no indication in Bible that he ever intended to establish a new set of religious dogmas or found a new religion. In fact, his word and his actions indicate just the opposite, he was calling for unity through the power of love and concerted action for justice and compassion by all. He said he came for all men, transcending the very notion of religion. Jesus experienced all of creation ablaze with the glory of God and he believed that all humans had at their core the spark of divine consciousness. He sacrificed his life to ignite that spark in all of us and I think that is what makes him Christianity’s Savior. The historical Jesus we find in the Bible invited us to seek the Kingdom within, and He spoke of his Father’s house having many mansions.

The historical man Jesus has everything to teach us today and focusing on what was most important to Him may just inspire us all to change our own world with the same commitment and passion that He used to change his own.

What if all you had to do for everybody to agree that you were a Christian was to follow the teachings and life of Jesus Christ and live in harmony with the same universal laws that he lived in harmony with. What if Christianity had no problem with others believing that the central fact of His life was the complete realization of a conscious union of this man with the God of his understanding, and that it was his realization of his oneness with God that made Jesus the Christ?  The Bible gives no indication that he ever claimed for himself anything that he did not claim for all mankind and He spoke of his remarkable achievements as the normal outcome of a state to which all of us could attain. By completely realizing this, first for himself, and then by pointing out the great laws which are the same for us as they were for him, he has given the whole world an ideal of life, an ideal we can attain to here and now, one that we could not have without him living and dying the way he did. Historically speaking, it was by showing the world the great power of at-one-ment and by receiving this divine inflow in all of its transcendent glory and power that the historical Jesus, became the Christ.

Is it possible that the prophecy could be fulfilled and this man Jesus could become the entire world's Savior, if only Christianity would allow it to happen?

What would be so bad about that?



#296
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Bot can't even grasp the subject matter enough to know what to ask the Google AI, Shila is just an irrelevant, non-sequitur Bot.

Do Buddhists pray to Awakened Beings such as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas? The answer is yes. This may come as a surprise to many people who have heard that there is no God in Buddhism. I don’t think it is as easy as all that to say there is no God in Buddhism.
Isn't that nice...and irrelevant since you are the only one saying "there is no God in Buddhism", once again, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", and it is easy to say that God is not a central figure in Buddhism.

I guess bot isn't programmed to pay attention, ok, now you say another irrelevant non-sequitur.


#297
Shila
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@Sidewalker

Do Buddhists pray to Awakened Beings such as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas? The answer is yes. This may come as a surprise to many people who have heard that there is no God in Buddhism. I don’t think it is as easy as all that to say there is no God in Buddhism.
Isn't that nice...and irrelevant since you are the only one saying "there is no God in Buddhism", once again, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", and it is easy to say that God is not a central figure in Buddhism. 

I guess bot isn't programmed to pay attention, ok, now you say another irrelevant non-sequitur.
Learn to read. Buddhist also pray to divine figureheads (substitutes as God) even though they heard that there is no God in Buddhism.
#298
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Do Buddhists pray to Awakened Beings such as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas? The answer is yes. This may come as a surprise to many people who have heard that there is no God in Buddhism. I don’t think it is as easy as all that to say there is no God in Buddhism.
Isn't that nice...and irrelevant since you are the only one saying "there is no God in Buddhism", once again, what you said was "Every religion has God as its central figure. God is universal in all religions.", and it is easy to say that God is not a central figure in Buddhism. 

I guess bot isn't programmed to pay attention, ok, now you say another irrelevant non-sequitur.
Learn to read. Buddhist also pray to divine figureheads (substitutes as God) even though they heard that there is no God in Buddhism.
Shila got the bot at Walmart's discount bot section, during the close-out sale.
#299
Shila
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@Sidewalker
Shila got the bot at Walmart's discount bot section, during the close-out sale.
Walmart's tech investments are aimed at enhancing in-store experiences as well. The company used generative AI to create or improve the quality of more than 850 million pieces of data across its product catalog.
#300
Sidewalker
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@Shila
Shila got the bot at Walmart's discount bot section, during the close-out sale.
Walmart's tech investments are aimed at enhancing in-store experiences as well. The company used generative AI to create or improve the quality of more than 850 million pieces of data across its product catalog.
It was at the scratch and dense sale.