Atheist Venting

Author: Owen_T
Religion

Posts

Total: 35
Topic's author
#1
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 590
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
Despite Christianity's talk of religious prosecution against them, atheists are the most hated group of people in the U.S, acording to Pew research center. 

I recently came out as an atheist to some people in my social web. I was thinking that nothing would really change. These people knew that I cared about morality, that I donated to charities and spent afternoons volunteering. 

It turned out, I was wrong. Not only that, but these people, (who I am somehow vastly more biblically literate than) had nothing but the most stupid arguments to defend their beliefs. Things like "you're just angry at god," and "Well now you're going to go to hell." There were also a lot of insults to my intelligence.

I'm not opposed to Christianity. I'm just shocked how hateful this community built around love is. 

The Christians on this stie are quite open minded and well versed on your beliefs. Can y'all please talk some sense into your peers. 

As much as it pains me, I'm going to keep lying about my faith to my friends in family. The disrespect and I have received from Christians is unbearable. 
#2
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,352
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Owen_T
Sorry to hear that.

It's true that being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean that one is tolerant, kind, or charitable.

But. . . Doesn't mean that there 'aren't Christians who can love and respect Atheists either.
Nor that there aren't Atheists who hate and deride Christians.
. . .

I've only ever talked to my eldest brother about my Atheism,
As I trust him, find him intelligent, and felt a need to tell 'somebody actually close to me.

Never the rest of my family, though I 'suspect they can already infer it, hard to tell.
For them I worry more about them worrying about me,
Thinking me to be 'missing something in my life, due to lacking a relationship with God.
. . . Also I suspect Atheism can be a harmful belief and/or belief for some people.
Besides I 'could be wrong, though I don't consider myself Agnostic.

I still say grace with my family on occasions we have get together,
I just take it as time to muse on religion, and God, as some people idealize them, kindness, family, morality. Still an Atheist though.
Course some people go for hate and vengeance with their religion, it varies.
#3
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,171
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Owen_T
Well people are different from each other.

Sometimes religion is just a communal framework. You say you aren't part of that framework and they take it personally.

Finding out that most people who claim to be christian aren't really was what laid the groundwork for my de-conversion. If you're going to believe in something it was distasteful to me to believe in a shallow and contrived way.

Of course reflecting on the strength of faith is a dangerous thing for a religious person to do, might stumble on epistemology and that's exactly what happened to me.

Anyway there are some real Christians, I've met them, and even though I'm sure they're ignorant I also have a respect for them that goes deeper than the conscious level. There is enormous dignity in living an ideal just as much if not more than you preach it. Trust me, these people would never try to hurt you.
#4
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Owen_T
Such is the USA , it's people, and how it's people are still subject to the oppression of archaic generational data transfer.

Over here in the UK, church is just the playroom for committed old diehards.

And to say that one is a Christian, is basically to say that one does flower arranging.

And one doesn't go around proclaiming atheism, one just gets on with other stuff on a Sunday.

Like cycling.

Shopping and pub dinners are also very popular.


Not that one doesn't appreciate church architecture, graveyards and campanology.


And then there are urban Muslims; still to a greater degree, subject to the oppression of archaic generational data transfer.

Though to be fair, more and more are becoming non-practicing, and simply identify as Muslim.

Self discrimination is inevitable I suppose.

#5
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Owen_T
Religious people are pack animals, which is why they need a pack of like-minded individuals to feel strong.

Sure, you might find some decent Christians, but most are trash.

They cant think logically, they dont have respect for any other belief.

Christianity is virus which destroys person's brain.
#6
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,514
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Owen_T
As much as it pains me, I'm going to keep lying about my faith to my friends in family. The disrespect and I have received from Christians is unbearable. 
I wasn't that wrong when I stated that religion and politics are the main problems of the human being since they are built on dogmas, and dogmas mean slavery, resentment, intolerance and violence. I'm really sorry for what you're going through, I fully understand.

I've come to watch a video that is very telling about this subject and I want to share it with you all.


The video is fake, of course, but we can't deny that the script is very clever because it's mainly inspired by the asian phylosophy and also because it speaks common sense. You'll hear that the interviewer asks the alien why human beings have destroyed themselves with nuclear war and the alien responds "dogma". Dogma is what keep us from evolving.

We get rid of the muthafucka dogmas, embrace the knowledge and we''ll be free.
#7
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,610
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

You have to ask yourself, am I more like Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking or am I more like Rev Jim Bakker.
#8
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Owen_T
Atheists are highly religious so I can see the hate and so we have no true separation of church and state.
#9
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@IlDiavolo
There's no separation of church and state.
#10
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@zedvictor4
There's no separation of religion and government.
#11
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Atheists are super religious in their own rite.
Topic's author
#12
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 590
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
-->
@Mall
Can you explain what you mean? 

Atheists are religious - you can see hate - therefore there is no speration of church in state?

I have a bit of a hard time following that. 
#13
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,610
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Owen_T

He doesn't understand that religious people believe in made up stories and atheists believe in science.
#14
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
He thinks that science is a religion and that Christianity is a science.

These MAGA citizens live in virtual reality.
Topic's author
#15
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 590
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
I would pay so much to be blissfully Christian again. I just can't change what I believe.
#16
Skipper_Sr
Skipper_Sr's avatar
Debates: 10
Posts: 300
1
2
7
Skipper_Sr's avatar
Skipper_Sr
1
2
7
-->
@Owen_T
I am sorry you experienced such an unnecessarily angry response from Christians, and I do not mean that in the sense that I apologize on behalf of those people because that doesn't really mean anything to anyone, but I have empathy for your circumstance. Those Christians did not accurately express the love from which God commands us to operate. Revealing disbelief in the Christian doctrine is seen as rejection of what is sacred which can be a big deal to fervent religious people of the Church (by fervent religious people I mean those who are very invested in their practice of the religion, or at least those who would say they are).

Your conviction of belief stirred them to be hasty and not very thoughtful in their judgements of how to act. It's sad to see they only saw you as an idea to crush and not as a human to understand. They failed as good representations of what a Christian should be by engaging in harsh ostracization of your willingness to show what you believe and by connection, you as well. They were wrong to condemn you by saying, "Well now you're going to go to hell" because they are not meant to condemn anyone, and that is not up to them. 

I hope my words find you well. As a Christian myself, should I be put in a similar situation but on the opposite end, I will do well to remember not to treat the person the way you were treated and to not make them feel the way you were made to feel 
#17
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,610
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
Televangelist Jim Bakker was indicted on federal charges of mail and wire fraud and of conspiring to defraud the public. The case against the founder of Praise the Lord (PTL) Ministries and three of his aides exploded in the press when it was revealed that Bakker had sex with former church secretary Jessica Hahn.
On December 6, 1980, Bakker and Hahn had a sexual encounter in a Florida hotel room. Although they each told different stories of what had happened, Bakker eventually paid Hahn over $350,000 to remain silent. When the arrangement became public, the scandal helped to bring down the entire PTL ministry.
Hahn, who claimed that she didn’t want to be in the spotlight, became an overnight celebrity. She posed for Playboy magazine, wrote a book about her relationship with Bakker, and even briefly lived in the Playboy mansion. Hahn, a radio announcer in Phoenix, Arizona, at the time of Bakker’s indictment, soon became a regular on Howard Stern’s radio show and appeared in rock music videos, as well.
#18
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,352
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Owen_T
I'll agree one can't 'just change what they believe.

But some Atheists 'do become Christians,
And as a former Christian, it might be even easier for you to do so than a all time Atheist.

People come across new information, experiences, logic, thoughts,
That can convince them of Christianity as true or might be,
Or they can make a Leap of faith.

In either case people don't 'just become Christian, there is 'something that 'causes their change of faith.
. . .

Though I don't expect to change my own views,
I have been 'somewhat enjoying Googling the concept of the soul recently.

Partially,
Because I am having trouble with Worldbuilding a fictional world, idle thoughts on video game or a book, and I hate not seeing the implications of some systems I might include. Though I am willing to leave it ambiguous, I still want the characters in the world to state 'some kind of justification/theory for their beliefs I find workable.

Partially Ego, As even if I intellectually come to a conclusion, that I 'think I will cease after death, my 'Ego can't seem to accept it.
Partially

Partially despair,
As I am fond of phrases such as one's body being chained, but their spirit and soul free,
Or master of one's own fate.
. . . I am 'fond of such phrases, but intellectually, I cannot accept them.
. . .

But there 'are interesting stories on the concept of soul,
Such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_man, which I see as having value for real life, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller blind and deaf,
Or feral children, or AI, or brain organoids.
, , Not that I 'agree with all that Youtube channels views on sentience or consciousness, but still, interesting.
#19
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
OK.

But your one liners are somewhat bereft of pertinent argument.
#20
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Owen_T
Despite Christianity's talk of religious prosecution against them, atheists are the most hated group of people in the U.S, acording to Pew research center. 
It's the atheists who run Washington. And there is much railing against Religion. Not just Christianity, but every religion. If you are in a group whatever that might be, and that group, runs the world. And makes the laws. Then it is to be expected that others will be unhappy about that if your rules and ideas and morality conflicts with theirs. It's not rocket science.  I am an Australian by the way. And in Australia, Athiests are held up by the governments as the most wonderful, and objective patrons of the world. Religious people as being unscientific. (I noticed below similar hate sentiments against religious people.) 

I recently came out as an atheist to some people in my social web. I was thinking that nothing would really change. These people knew that I cared about morality, that I donated to charities and spent afternoons volunteering. 
Coming out as an Athiest. Wow! I can't quite get my head around that notion.  Although Religious people are still the majority in Australia, it's certainly decreasing.  Atheists have for many years been stating they have morality and care about the world etc. I acknowledge that is true. I don't think Athiests are Amoral. For me-  it is really a question of what kind of morals.  

It turned out, I was wrong. Not only that, but these people, (who I am somehow vastly more biblically literate than) had nothing but the most stupid arguments to defend their beliefs. Things like "you're just angry at god," and "Well now you're going to go to hell." There were also a lot of insults to my intelligence.
I can't speak for the people you are referring to. Or their motivations. there are many religious people who demonstrate a lack of ignorance of their religion but conversely, there are a lot of Atheists who don't understand their worldview either. I am sincerely sorry that the words thrown at you have insulted you, have made you feel upset.  Stupid arguments exist on both sides of the discussion.  

I'm not opposed to Christianity. I'm just shocked how hateful this community built around love is. 

I think Christianity is a religion of love. For me the question is what is love and how is it demonstrated.  Many people today, who are not Christian, or who are not Conservative Christian, consider - anything the Conservative Christian says to be hate, even though it is not hate from where the Christian is coming from. Let me give an example.  In America, so, I've been told, there are the Fanatical Baptist cultic churches - who claim to be Christian who - write stuff such as - "God hates Fags". And other hateful things. In my mind, this is hate speech. It is wrong. And to be honest it demonstrates in my view, that they are not Christians for they haven't understood the gospel or how God wants us to treat people. (Yes, I know, people will say - of course they're Christians. Or how convenient that you say these are the haters, but the fact is - the Bible tells us - by their fruits you will know them and not everyone who calls themselves a believer is one. We have entire books devoted to what we call wolves in sheeps clothing. and the reason is to protect ourselves from people who falsely claim to be Christian and yet are divisive and hateful, and have agendas to split the church) On the other hand, we do have Christians, who wish to speak the truth in love, and who believe that the way the Bible describes marriage and relationships is godly. And they want to live in that sort of world, and they want their children to be raised in that kind of a world, and their motives are not to hate, but rather to educate and to help. Those in a secular world are very happy to educate those they consider superstitious or incorrect in thier beliefs and they don't consider that to be hate speech just because they disagree.  

I've been to lots of Atheist websites which debate or confront religious people. And honestly, many of those sites have been very viscious and nasty. It is not something that somehow is mutually exclusive to any one group. But therein is one of the reasons for my own belief. People have a tendency to be nasty if they don't get their own way. Adam Smith - called it self interest. I call it the human nature. 


The Christians on this stie are quite open minded and well versed on your beliefs. Can y'all please talk some sense into your peers. 
that's quite a generous thing to say.  I am always trying to talk sense into our peers. I would respectfully request a reciporical plea for you. 

As much as it pains me, I'm going to keep lying about my faith to my friends in family. The disrespect and I have received from Christians is unbearable. 

I am sorry you feel you need to hide yourself away. For the record, Christians and other religions do this too. As much as like to think we are tolerant society, it's simply not true. Again, I am sorry for the disrespect you have received from any Christian. And I hope it never happens again. But it will - just like I will be disrespected - possibly even on this topic of yours.  Of course, it will be surprising to see if others can see that - or if others will acknowledge it. I think in our day and age, that if someone thinks that others are disrespecting others, then they are fair game to be disrespected as well.  Personally, I think that is not a Christian moral position, but more of a modern progressive value. 
#21
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
Tolerance and love have never been very popular, even among people who sign on to their movements. People seem at their happiest when there is an out-group they can rally against and hate, imo. And the simplicity and absolutism of dogma will ever entice the weak of mind.

Anyway, people suck and I'm sorry you had to deal with it.
#22
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Castin
Hey, what do you expect.


The human default setting is survival.

Safety in numbers.

Tolerance.

Discrimination and mistrust

Fight or flight.


Emotional bonding is probably  limited to pair bonding and parental bonding, but cannot be assured.


Love is overthink.





#23
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Owen_T
Tradesecret wrote @Owen_T

I am sincerely sorry that the words thrown at you have insulted you, [...................] People have a tendency to be nasty if they don't get their own way. [............] Again, I am sorry for the disrespect you have received from any Christian. #20
THIS!!!  from a man of god; a Chaplain and a Pastor no less! With his own congregating of  over 300 worshipers.  It appears above that the Reverend Tradesecret feels your pain, anguish and your suffering in silence , Owen_T.  I hope you find some comfort in the loving, kind  and thoughtful words that he has for  you, a self confessed atheist, Owen_T. 

 But be not ye fooled nor  deceived  by hypocrites  that  swan around in fancy clerical vestments and boast about their stations. Nor be not ye deceived  by the faux compassion that this particular Chaplain and Pastor has shown you.

For, in his own words, this is what he truly thinks of atheists.... "Drug addled kiddie fiddlers that are not great thinkers". 

TRADESECRET WROTE:: You must be an unusual atheist. Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead.  Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian.

Most of them don't think very much - although they have an high view of themselves. Most are depressed.  I have to say it very rare to meet a happy atheist. In fact I cannot think of any at all.  #33

Hard to believe I know, but believe me, he's said a lot worse about atheists........ but he shares your silent pain and suffering.
#24
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,973
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@Owen_T
As much as it pains me, I'm going to keep lying about my faith to my friends in family. The disrespect and I have received from Christians is unbearable. 

I would pay so much to be blissfully Christian again. I just can't change what I believe
You can still consider yourself culturally Christian with the good things the Bible teaches. 
In a way you wouldn’t be lying to call yourself Christian.
#25
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Owen_T
Government is secular. They legislate what they believe. Atheists beliefs are secular.
#26
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,806
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@zedvictor4
True one line.
Topic's author
#27
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 590
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
I have respect for Christians who actually practice. Oddly, these tend to be the Christians that I disagree with the most. 

One of the big problems for me is that I couldn't see the all living, forgiving God sending people to hell for eternity, even if they were themselves living people. I don't see how I could be happy knowing all my friends are in pain while I'm in utopia.

I will still use the moral compass of religion. Most bhudism and Christianity. The ladder just without all the hating gay people stuff. 

Mostly though, I ask myself: will this cause more pain or benefit to humanity? 

What do all the atheists here base your morality on? 
#28
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,352
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Owen_T
I'm not sure I 'do base my morality on anything.
. . .
Perhaps it has become to vague for me, too changing, too situational.

Well, I imagine I base my morals on the various experiences and influences in my life, 'habits,
On what I value and desire,
But that 'changes, more often and quicker than you might think sometimes.
. . .

But I probably have an 'average, of what I do,
A 'usual go to for oughts.

Sorry, I don't know. (This moment)
#29
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,610
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Owen_T
As an Atheist I believe: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a biblical concept spoken by Jesus in Luke 6:31 and Matthew 7:12.
Without this morality humans will destroy themselves.
#30
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,514
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
As an Atheist I believe: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a biblical concept spoken by Jesus in Luke 6:31 and Matthew 7:12.
Without this morality humans will destroy themselves.
This is the golden rule and is very old, older than Christianity.

Jesus probably took it from the Egyptians or the Indians.

Whatever it is, it's impossible to not agree with it.