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@Lunatic
I thought this DP was going to end in the morning? If it's actually going to end at 10:30 at night, then that also works ig.
Bo Burnham Songs Mafia DP1
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@iamanabanana
Good job keep making posts then. I don't know if you want a cookie or something, but I was pressuring you for inactivity, is that not the exact same thing you pushed vader for?
No? I just randomly voted Supa.
Why are you being a hypocrite?
How am I a hypocrite?
How are you not being defensive?
To the contrary, I’m being offensive.
You are begging for me to claim because I voted you, and that's the entire reason.
No, I am voting you because you
A) Mislead/lied about my “disinterest”
B) Self-conscious about claiming when not even asked
C) Aggression on me
Hope others can see the ridiculousness with what you are saying.
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@Casey_Risk
Okay, now I'm starting to agree with Pie. I don't like #176 at all.
Good, vote for her please
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@whiteflame
I think I get where Pie is coming from in terms of his read on Banana, I'm just not convinced she's scum. The confusion over Pie's behavior in a previous game is the main basis for the sus that has legs (the VTL less so, since Pie was inactive for quite a while, which isn't common, and she tends to respond pretty negatively and defensively to pressure), and I can see how this might have been a pretty weak effort to throw some sus at Pie. That being said, if the goal was to try and get a mislynch off of the effort, I don't see why Banana would target Pie of all people or why she would keep up that effort now. Pie isn't getting lynched.
It’s easy to target an inactive as scum. Alternatively, it’s a way to “fit in” as noob scum.
I'm fine with pushing for more information from Banana, though, since she has held off on claiming an album and seems pretty cagey in her responses, particularly that last one.
Great, please vote for her
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@iamanabanana
Can we at least get a character claim from you?
Unvote
VTL Banana
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@Casey_Risk
@iamanabanana
Can we at least get a character claim from you?UnvoteVTL Banana
No no. Full claim. Character + Role
Lowkey, I can see Banana+Casey and Pie+Owen. Whiteflame is floating somewhere around the pool.
I'm liking Vader as town. Of note was his concession to me about Owen, and his concession to Casey, even if I'm up in the air about that one. I am starting consider that there may be more to his FoS on Owen than I initially considered... maybe Vader is onto something. More on that later.
For reasons already stated, there's a lot giving me pause on pushing for Casey or Banana...
I'm also not following his logic on Banana that much. Keep in mind that her posts about Pie were after I mentioned there's someone not getting this game going... she and Casey kinda riffed off each other... however, even Pie saw himself as the guy I was talking about... so how much are they really copying off each other? I clearly conditioned everyone to think about who's hiding a little too much; the fact that three people concluded it was Pie (including Pie himself) tells me that the narrative collusion may be more of something that everyone saw, ie, a coincidence.
Another thing about Pie is that he's great at arguing... but when his logic isn't as airtight, it's usually a sign he's scum in my book. He's made a few decent points, but they are in rebuttal to some of Casey's poorer defenses of Banana. His starting points were horrid. I don't see how Banana is pushing aggressively, and I don't see how her behavior is inconsistent... I can kinda see a teensy tiny bit of his points, but it overwhelminghly looks like he's making mountains out of molehills.
_______________________________________________
As I'm typing this, the dynamic has shifted a little. Banana has become aggressive in attacking Pie and defending herself... an an emotional level, her response makes sense imo. She's not countering Pie's points all that well, but she is relying on the idea that Pie's points being ridiculous are self evident.
Of more note is the fact that Casey has is now being pushed in agreement with Pie, in her own words. I was being drawn back into a conditional scumread of her by association with Banana, in the event Pie is innocent. But now her turn is weird. I don't like that either, and keep in mind she is in position to flip between Pie and Banana all she wants if both of them are innocent and she's scum.
The big thing about Casey is her claim of negative town utility that could result in her being a good choice for a lynch is giving me a lot of pause. And yet, everything else about her behavior doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps was feeling a bit more pressure than I felt was on her and decided to gambit. I said it was hard to believe earlier, but nothing else about her adds up.
And then there's Whiteflame in the mix now. The second Casey might turn on Banana, he's her to somewhat agree with her, but not go too far. This is a pattern I've seen from him all game long and it almost feels like he's too scared to scumread someone outright. I'm also noting the subtle pushback I got from him when I was beginning to sus Casey. I can see a Casey+Whiteflame team to replace my theory of Casey+Banana.
Of course there's also the fact that Whiteflame now has the greenlight to pursue Banana if he's teamed of with Pie, now that Casey is showing signs of changing her mind. I can see Pie+Whiteflame as well.
Of course this means that there are three people on Banana. I can't completely ignore that, because it means there is at least one town perspective that doesn't like Banana. I will admit her early logic on Pie is pretty bad. I chalk that up to poor logic... I'm not sure she's developed that skill yet, so I do have lower expectations. I'm still leaning town on her, but I am at least a little bit open to some better arguments against her, or at least better explanations of some of the already stated arguments.
Going back to Pie, I can't see a good reason to townread him. I don't like his lynch logic at all and I hate the OMGUS. He's the only person who has no solid town argument in my book and thus, my top scumread.
As for Owen, Whiteflame is now competing with him for the possible teammate if Pie's scum. But it should be noted that Pie immediately started to push Banana the second a wagon on Owen developed. Regarding Vader's FoS on Owen, one thing worth noting is that what little he has posted achieves nothing. One can brush this off as him being cautious, but then there's his justification: He wants to get good and avoid being the information lynch. Both of these are nice, but it doesn't really explain sitting back in my book. If want to get good and avoid being the information lynch, look for more things to thin about and give thoughts on. That's how you good, and I'm really not liking the cognitive dissonance here. It should also be noted that Pie rebuttal to Casey's arguments about Banana may or not argue could be applied to Owen. Pie was inactive, the lack of guidance could influence Owen behavior here.
And no, I'm not gonna imply Vader is Owen's teammate. Everything so far is pointing to Vader being town in my book. Wylted is greater town in my book, and Moozer is the towniest of all; both are for reason I've already explained. Might as well mention them here since I'm going through my thoughts on everyone.
All in all, I want to pressure Pie for a claim.
VTL Pie
However, I will not deny that they dynamics here are complicated. I have a five-man pool of Pie, Owen, Whiteflame, Casey, and Banana, with nuanced thoughts on all of them.
It is here where I propose a compromise: After Pie claims, I would like him to pick someone for us to pressure. I strongly prefer a player in my pool, but I am willing to let him go outside of it. My only stipulation is that Moozer is off the table completely.
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@Mharman
Of more note is the fact that Casey has is now being pushed in agreement with Pie, in her own words. I was being drawn back into a conditional scumread of her by association with Banana, in the event Pie is innocent. But now her turn is weird. I don't like that either, and keep in mind she is in position to flip between Pie and Banana all she wants if both of them are innocent and she's scum.
It was really all due to post 176. I really did not like the strong aggressive turn that Banana made. Just a clear OMGUS.
And then there's Whiteflame in the mix now. The second Casey might turn on Banana, he's her to somewhat agree with her, but not go too far. This is a pattern I've seen from him all game long and it almost feels like he's too scared to scumread someone outright.
Actually, I also noticed that WF was the one who said we didn't have much time left in the DP, only to then agree with Pie somewhat on pushing Banana, but not actually cast a vote for her. I thought that was strange.
It is here where I propose a compromise: After Pie claims, I would like him to pick someone for us to pressure. I strongly prefer a player in my pool, but I am willing to let him go outside of it. My only stipulation is that Moozer is off the table completely.
Interesting, but I'm not sure what the point of this is. What makes you think he's going to pick anyone other than Banana?
Thoughts?
I am open to alternative compromises... I just want the players in my pool examined.
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@Casey_Risk
I thought this DP was going to end in the morning? If it's actually going to end at 10:30 at night, then that also works ig.
No you are correct, I made a mistake and can't do math. The day phase ends in 13.5 hours. Sorry.
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@ILikePie5
Self-conscious about claiming when not even asked
I just assumed they had a power role and as gor the posts you tagged me in earlier. The reads you responded to were from bad information. I was assuming a theme.
It was really all due to post 176. I really did not like the strong aggressive turn that Banana made. Just a clear OMGUS.
Not really. Pie started the OMGUS.
Actually, I also noticed that WF was the one who said we didn't have much time left in the DP, only to then agree with Pie somewhat on pushing Banana, but not actually cast a vote for her. I thought that was strange.
Noted.
Interesting, but I'm not sure what the point of this is. What makes you think he's going to pick anyone other than Banana?
He's likely to pick Banana, but I want to make the deal a little sweeter top incentivize a claim from him. I want at least two people in my pool to claim, preferably two people on opposite side of the dynamic. It will help me analyze my own theories about who could be teamed up with who.
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@Casey_Risk
tag
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@Vader
@WyIted
@Moozer325
thoughts?
13.5 hours. Gotta make a decision soon. We have some time, but be careful how yall spend it. I guess I should include myself too
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@ILikePie5
@Mharman
He's likely to pick Banana, but I want to make the deal a little sweeter top incentivize a claim from him. I want at least two people in my pool to claim, preferably two people on opposite side of the dynamic. It will help me analyze my own theories about who could be teamed up with who.
Fair enough ig. I'm not really happy with either Pie or Banana rn tbh, so I'm fine with getting claims from both of them. We also don't really have all that much time left, so going after the player who's actually active right now makes sense.
Unvote
VTL Pie
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@Mharman
As I'm typing this, the dynamic has shifted a little. Banana has become aggressive in attacking Pie and defending herself... an an emotional level, her response makes sense imo. She's not countering Pie's points all that well, but she is relying on the idea that Pie's points being ridiculous are self evident.
Why can this not be a scumtell from a noob scum. If you’re going to chalk it up to her being a noob, she is just as likely to make the mistake as scum
Going back to Pie, I can't see a good reason to townread him. I don't like his lynch logic at all and I hate the OMGUS. He's the only person who has no solid town argument in my book and thus, my top scumread.
OMGUS? Really? For someone who criticized me for being inactive, which I was? Lol
It is here where I propose a compromise: After Pie claims, I would like him to pick someone for us to pressure. I strongly prefer a player in my pool, but I am willing to let him go outside of it. My only stipulation is that Moozer is off the table completely.
I’m not claiming before Banana. And even if she does claim, I will make a decision about character claiming vs role claiming.
Bananas frustration at always claiming early and losing his roles utility every single game is fair.
Also I agree that pie's logic is bad which doesn't mean much from others but does mean something from him often enough.i think he is at L2 so I won't vote and he is somebody I certainly would not want to mislynch due to his usefulness in general if he happens to be town.
If neither Pie nor Banana have particularly sus claims, kill me.
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@Mharman
But it should be noted that Pie immediately started to push Banana the second a wagon on Owen developed.
I started responded when I got home after a 3 hour drive. If you think I’m lying about being in Austin, I can show you my phone records and bank statement
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@ILikePie5
@WyIted
i think he is at L2 so I won't vote and he is somebody I certainly would not want to mislynch due to his usefulness in general if he happens to be town.
Actually, you're right, Pie is at L-2 right now.
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@ILikePie5
I don't think the claim from banana is happening yet and I also don't think you want to be a martyr. Let's focus on your other reads. Even if you are right about banana, they have a partner and that is worth looking into
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@Casey_Risk
Why don't you just full claim?
Also if your role is that bad why aren't you trying to draw an NK? Why would you prefer being the lynch?
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@Mharman
@iamanabanana
Frankly, I think a lot of this is resolved by just getting at least a character claim, if not more, from Banana. If there's a solid basis for buying her claim, then getting a claim from Pie as well makes nothing but sense to me given how hard he's pushed on her. So I'm willing to pursue a claim from Pie after Banana does. For now, though:
VTL Banan
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@Casey_Risk
I am fine with giving my character. I am "welcome to the internet". I am not giving more though, because I do not feel there is adequate reason for me to do so. What exactly about my post did you take issue with? My guess is that you expect a woman to respond to aggressive males like pie and be completely demure and submissive? Take your world view of women out the equation for a second and look at the argument on it's face.
I asked him if he wanted a cookie for posting a lot recently. Here's what happened. Pie was gone for 2/3 days of this phase. I voted him pointing out that this is strange from him, based on what I've seen. The only other mafia game I've seen from him he was bored/ dis-interested. For whatever that reason was, doesn't matter much, he was inactive, he was mafia end of story. I think that is a good baseline to be suspicious of him when he was way more active when he was town in the last game. And his response is that "I've made more posts than you now". What does that have to do with my initial vote? He's acting perplexed that I voted him to begin with when he had made 0 posts, the fact that he is spam posting now doesn't change why I originally voted for him. I am asking him if he wants a cookie, because he keeps repeating this argument as if it actually means anything...
The only other thing you could be referring to is that I called him a hypocrite, which I also stand by. He voted vader, then dis-appears. Vader was inactive when pie voted for him. He goes inactive immediately after. That is being a hypocrite. So you tell me what is wrong with any of what I said?
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@WyIted
Bananas frustration at always claiming early and losing his roles utility every single game is fair.
It’s fair, if she were asked to claim this DP. But she brought it out of her own volition. That means she has something to hide.
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@ILikePie5
Why can this not be a scumtell from a noob scum. If you’re going to chalk it up to her being a noob, she is just as likely to make the mistake as scum
Noted, but I also get the frustration a little bit from the town perspective. The initial arguments still aren't that great.
OMGUS? Really? For someone who criticized me for being inactive, which I was? Lol
I'm calling it OMGUS because of the way you took it.
I’m not claiming before Banana. And even if she does claim, I will make a decision about character claiming vs role claiming.
You're really not in a position for this, but I am willing to get Banana's first if you still claim. I assume that her claim is the one you're picking here?
I started responded when I got home after a 3 hour drive. If you think I’m lying about being in Austin, I can show you my phone records and bank statement
I believe that part. I just think your push on Banana is still fairly unbelievable, so it strikes me as one that was done quickly without too much thought.
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@WyIted
Why don't you just full claim?Also if your role is that bad why aren't you trying to draw an NK? Why would you prefer being the lynch?
Well, it's a bit late for me to draw the NK now. Better for me to get lynched than any other townie, most likely.
As for full claiming, I'll do it if enough players want me to. I'm actually a little bit nervous about not dying today after full claiming. Like I said, my role can potentially hinder the mafia if I choose well and get a bit lucky, but if the mafia actually know what I am and how I intend to use my role, that can backfire. I'll fullclaim as long as the town promises to kill me for doing so, but I want to hear claims from Banana and Pie first.
Banana is active between 7 am and 12 pm normally. Pretending we can sufficiently pressure them to claim and also sufficiently turn around and then pressure pie is silly. A decision needs to be made and unless I have reason to scum read banana than my empathy for them being a punching bag each game is going to win over.
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@WyIted
I don't think the claim from banana is happening yet and I also don't think you want to be a martyr. Let's focus on your other reads. Even if you are right about banana, they have a partner and that is worth looking into
She’s at L-2 as well. I have a couple people in mind already, that I will reveal after she claim.