Christian doble standard

Author: IlDiavolo
Christianity
jews
Double standard
Palestinians

Posts

Total: 108
Topic's author
#1
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,515
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
I think everyone knows that Israel is technically commiting genocide on Palestinians. It doesnt matter how evil muslims are, there is no justification for that so I'm not going to discuss it here. 

What I want to put into discussion, though, is the way Christians approach to this topic. This is what you're going to see all over the Internet, Christians cheering the jews to keep up with this butchery instead of condemning such horrible attacks only because both religions share the same "God" and some beliefs, but when it comes to other religions all of a sudden they start to remember there are human rights. 

I dont know about you but this is called double standard wherever you are. That's why I always say that religion and politics resemble one another, they suck.
#2
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
There is a part of a brain which dies in Christian's head, so he thinks Jesus would support dropping bombs on children, hospitals, schools...ect.

I guess Jesus didnt repeat "Thou shall not kill" enough times for it to sink in.
#3
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 1,999
3
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
3
7
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
all over the Internet, Christians cheering the jews to keep up with this butchery
Hard to quantify something like that if it's just based on anecdotal experience. I'd guess most of this is because America has a lot of Christians while also being more culturally similar to Israel than to other countries in the Middle East. But depending on where you go, you will find Christians with a double standard in favor of Israel, Christians with a double standard in favor of Palestine, and Christians who support neither government.  The same as with any group of people.

In addition to that, Christians believe that Judaism was at one time the correct religion (Jesus was literally Jewish) but that Islam was never the right religion. Muslim extremists have also executed more Christians than Jews have. If 9/11 was done by Jewish extremists (I'll ignore all the conspiracy theories), Americans would have an extremely different set of biases. That doesn't mean they should logically hate everyone in Palestine (there's a lot of Christians there too) or even support civilian warfare at all, but cultural differences influence a lot.
Topic's author
#4
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,515
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Savant
Well, I'm not generalizing, I'm just pointing out that christianity has to do a lot in the Israel - muslim countries conflict, especially now that Iran has responded to Israeli attacks. To be honest I'm a little concerned about it, Israel is doing all what they've been doing so far because they have the US covering their back. Why the US is doing this? Because of christianity to a great extent, the jews are feeling themselves very entitled to do whatever they want because christians think the jews are the people chosen by "God" to occupy these territories, so all their crimes are forgiven. It sounds stupid but this is the reality once depicted by Chomsky.

On the other hand, I'm not accusing all the american christians for that. I know there are certain extremist christian groups that have a lot of influence ($$) on the american government's decisions, from what I understand it's the evangelical christians that are being used by the jews. You must know that Biden isn't doing shit about it, it's like Israel is the boss here. This can trigger an economic crisis or even a world war because the sionists are not reliable people, they are as evil as the extremist muslims that are ruling the muslim countries.

By the way, I don't think the West is christian as much as the Middle East is islamic. The West is secular basically so there is no reason to let Israel go on with their plans. The Biden administration is fucking it all up, if the old man doesn't stop it nobody will.
#5
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,611
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
Deuteronomy 7
A Chosen People
7 “When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, 2 and when the Lord your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. 3 Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. 5 But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire.


#6
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
 because they have the US covering their back
1 trillion dollars sent to Israel so far by USA has certainly helped Israel build military.

A strategical mistake, I say.

If there was no Israel, muslims would fight with each other there.

But now they are united against common enemy which USA must again pay money for to defend.

#7
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Also, Israel is literally making USA look bad and lose support around the world. It even helps Russia look better by comparison. Not sure what kind of "ally" Israel is. Like, tell them to calm down before they drag USA into war against Iran, which they will because they cant possibly win against Iran on their own unless they use nukes, which is another problem.
#8
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,353
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
I don't think I agree with your perspective on the Israel Palestine situation, but as you said, another topic.
. . .

I'd imagine some people were pissed off at the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im_music_festival_massacre and other killings by Hamas,
Civilians die in war,
But maybe many people did not view the Hamas attack as 'war,
The videos of Hamas parading victims bodies stripped of clothes, of raping and holding hostages,
The 'unverified (Last I heard) claims of baby decapitations (Still, many believed that such occurred.)

War though, is war, even if civilians die,
Can Israel 'accept a life of being terrorized and rocketed, turn the cheek again and again unto death?
. . .

I've read that,
"The Byzantine patriarchs in Egypt persecuted the Copts who did not convert to their version of Christianity. The Copts became more isolated and nationalistic, wrote more in the Coptic language, and their art became more unified.

The Copts were so oppressed under the Byzantine administration that they did not assist the Patriarch Cyrus when Egypt was invaded by the Arabs in 641 CE."
Though later,
"The Copts were treated well at first under the Arabs and continued to have important roles in society, including the arts and crafts. Later the Arabs began to tax Christians more heavily and deny them privileges, so many Copts chose to convert to Islam. Arabic increasingly became the official language in Egypt."

I also read a book recently that argued the Coptic did more than not aid the Byzantines, but actively aided and supported the Muslims, thinking the Muslims to be a temporary problem (They were not).
The Great Arab Conquests by Hugh Kennedy,
Though I'm also glancing about and seeing some website that vehemently claim the Coptics did not help the Muslims at all, so I don't know.

As Savant says of your post, "Hard to quantify something like that"

My mother decries the war, and wishes it would end,
My father crudely mocks Hamas, and claims what did they expect, claims they get what they deserve,
My mother I'd consider far more a Christian than my Father, not because of their opinions on the situation, but in their daily lives and actions, she is more a Christian I'd say.

Depends what Christians you're talking about maybe.
Topic's author
#9
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,515
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
Depends what Christians you're talking about maybe.
I'm talking about extremist christians, these people have a double standard which means they don't use the same "measuring stick" when it comes to evaluate people's actions. So, I wouldn't say your mom is religious, she's no doubt a spiritual person. Your father, on the other hand, is religious because being religious is more like being political.

As far as I know, Biden is preparing an attack to Iran along with Israel. This is stupid, really stupid. But yeah, these extremist christians will applaud it.
#10
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,353
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Eh, my Mom reads the Bible and talks of it often in life difficulties and choices, pretty Christian.

Extreme (Anything) can be bad,
Extreme Atheists, Extreme Americans, Extreme Gardeners. . .
Well, maybe some are just fun dipped heavy into,

But a double standard is often not unexpected in an extreme X,
Doesn't mean all Christians have double standards,

Or that extreme Atheists might not applaud the war and wish for more, all while mocking religion and claiming it's the reason of all human misery.

One could even have an extreme Christian who deplores the war,
Yet is extreme in their faith, talking about it all the time, incorporating it in their life,
Though, what is 'extreme is subjective maybe,
Like spicy food.
#11
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IlDiavolo
I think everyone knows that Israel is technically commiting genocide on Palestinians.
I literally don't know that. In fact they seem to be a lot more selective of their targets than Hamas is and they are not going to select targets that have no military benefit. I think they do care about civilian casualties but even if they didn't,  not caring is a world apart from genocide. 

I don't think any Christian is cheering this at all. Prior to this October 7th was an attack on civilians with zero military targets. The response atleast attacked military targets even if you want to argue they should have tried harder to avoid civilian casualties. 

It should also be noted that missiles were fired into Israel almost weekly, and sometimes daily for years, directed not at military targets but just hoping to get past the iron dome and get lucky and kill some people. 

This is not even about Islam necessarily even though the religion is unique because the Quran does call for genocide . If you noticed Egypt does not open its borders and nobody wants Palestinian refugees even though they are fellow Muslims and it is because the Palestinians when taken in by other Arab countries in the past have been a destabilizing force.

The only way this problem is solved is for the Gaza strip to be occupied and in order for it to be occupied, Hamas needs to be completely eradicated 
#12
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
. If you noticed Egypt does not open its borders and nobody wants Palestinian refugees even though they are fellow Muslims and it is because the Palestinians when taken in by other Arab countries in the past have been a destabilizing force.

Exactly, Wylted. Once they are allowed to settle in the host country they begin to create a state withing a state. It happened in both Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.
 They - Palestinian refugees - were allowed to settle in Lebanon and they too created and a state within a state which gave birth to the terrorist organisation we now know as Hezbollah who have taken over the south of the country. Many of the Lebanese citizens actually came out onto the streets and celebrated the attacks on Hezbollah.

And Lebanese /American author had this to say.
"“Thank You Israel!” Brigitte Gabriel THANKS Israel for Eliminating Hezbollah’s Leadership".
 
#13
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Stephen
It pains me greatly to defend Jews but they truly are the victims here and your analysis of a phenomenon unique to Palestinians for whatever cultural reasons is a problem for cou tries that normally would sympathize enough with predominantly Muslim populations to accept a massive amount of refugees. 
#14
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
As mentioned above, both Egypt and Jordan expelled these people eventually because they set up terrorist organisation in their lands. To my knowledge there are no Arab countries that are willing to take them refugees  in. .... Even countries that support them i.e. Iran and Qatar for instance. But they will harbour its terrorist leaders!?

#15
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
For sure Stephen. 

Iran et al will support dimwits in order to promote religious stupidity.

And opposing dimwits will support religious dimwits in order to promote religious stupidity.

All done with technology, smart bombs and social media propaganda these days.

Clever stupid gene.


Of course, without the religious stupidity they could all live in harmony.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


Have a nice day in Bromsgrove.

I'm off to Evesham for a few days to see the offspring and going to see Steve Hackett in Brum on Monday evening with the eldest.
#16
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
going to see Steve Hackett in Brum on Monday evening with the eldest.

Hello Vic. I was in Brum with two of my own a few weeks ago. Went to see the The Teskey Brothers. Brilliant Ozzy blues band.

Have a great time my mate. 
#17
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
I think christians have declined throughout the middle east, but not for conversion reasons. Most have sought refuge elsewhere, and have successfully travelled to the west.

Muslims believe in conversions called "Jihad Love", a doctrine imposed by muslims (originated from Muhammad) to make sure Abrahamic religions adopt Muhammad's view. At Khaybar, Muhammad had sex with dozens of jews and converted them to Islam through marriage pacts. He bestowed lofty titles on his spouses and claimed that they came from Allah. In modern times, Hamas's parade of israeli prisoners was no different than what Muhammad dreamt, and the only reason they stopped short of raping entire groups of israeli prisoners was because they had a loftier political goal in mind that could end Israel. Israeli prisoners are NOT DHIMMIS, so muslims are technically allowed to rape and enslave them just as Muhammad did. 

Christians have reason to cheer, as I have, for any decline in islam. It is a cruel and barbaric religion, steeped in fanaticism and brutality. The only disappointment i have with israel is that it didn't explicitly declare war on islam. Perhaps the children can be spared, I'd grant that. But I refuse any amount of mercy on muslim adults. They've cheered for the stoning of minorities, execution of apostates and forced conversion of dhimmis through marriage scams and financial benefits.

Moderate modern muslims, including christian dhimmis, whom i equally despise even though their demographics fall within 1% of muslim countries have enabled the spread of muhammad's violent interpretation of monotheism, and their decision to enroll clerics in high positions of power often led to nationwide banning of western literature. 

Nobody should be surprised to see Hezbollah in positions of power. Muslims can't claim they're peaceful in the same breath as cheering and advocating for the execution of lifestyles which they deem unfit.
#18
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
The only disappointment i have with israel is that it didn't explicitly declare war on islam
They have a million Muslims within their borders I believe and so it's not a good ideal especially for democratically elected leaders.  Plus the war with the ideology is more for believers of other religions and atheists.

Muslims can't claim they're peaceful in the same breath as cheering and advocating for the execution of lifestyles which they deem unfit.
It's the game . I grew up in the ghetto and noticed this game of claiming peaceful and victimized while simultaneously being a thug. 

A person in the ghetto may have walked up to me and say something like "give me $5" like in an angry tone. They may even add "or else" then when you punch the violent thug in the face they say "this guy just randomly attacked me?" "Why did you do this to me I am minding my business" 

A few groups play this Game, and I think if the world recognizes this game it would be better off. After October 7thh attack on Israeli citizens, before Israel had a chance to respond. They were already calling it genocide. They weren't even smart enough to wait for a military response to play victim. I guess the plan was to shame Israel into being cucks.


On a personal note. I am sorry you personally had to deal with fundamentalists.  I know you love some of these fundamentalists and it must be very tough. My sister is one and it's not as tough for me to deal with her given her respect for me, but it is a struggle watching how her children are raised. They are well fed and loved, but the chains on their minds is heart breaking. This is why I intentionally corrupt her youngest child. Her older child kind of needs the chains TBH so I leave her alone. 
Topic's author
#19
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,515
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@WyIted
You must be kidding. Over 11k palestinian children have died in the last 12 months so this is technically a genocide, they're not being selective at all. If you didn't notice the whole world is condemning these attacts too and the conflict is escalating into a regional war which tells you how aggresive the jews are. While it's true that terrorists use the civilians as shield, there must be another way to fight them. So, the palestinians are in fact the only victims of this conflict because they seem to be more or less happy living toghether with the jews.

On the other hand, if you want to find out when this conflict started, I would say since the jews stepped in these terroritories and created the israeli state. There is no reason to get into a place that they lost centuries ago and surrounded by potential enemies only because their religion tells them to do so. The jews are only there because they (or the zionists) think they are the chosen people that need to obey a "God" that promised them a prosperous state. That's as ludicrous as the christians cheering them to do so, just check out youtube, you'll see lot of comments justifying these atrocities. And this is the subject matter of this thread, to make visible the stupidity of the abrahamic religions.
#20
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,353
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
"Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears"

"As of Monday, at least 97 people taken hostage on Oct. 7 are believed to still be in Gaza, with around a third of them, or at least 33 people, believed to be dead, according to Israeli officials.
Hamas also holds two hostages, one taken in 2014 and the other in 2015, as well as the bodies of two slain Israeli soldiers."

I just don't see Hamas the same as Israel,
It's not a double standard.

Doesn't mean I see Palestinians the same as Hamas,
But where are the hostages?
Where does Hamas set up with impunity?
Who supports Hamas and cheers their actions?

Civilians die in war, it 'can't be avoided most the time.

I. . . I think it is acceptable to sacrifice a thousand, even more, of one's own nation in war, not to mention the enemies,
To make it clear they can not harm one's tribe,
To rescue back one's people, and not leave them in torture and degradation.
.  . .

Of course, the other side may feel similar,
But such is why I do not look towards cooperation, or cohabitation, in 'this scenario.

Even in other scenarios,
I think people ought to keep to their people,
Many Native American tribes and Americans could have gotten along better, if American hadn't done what they had, could have had cohabitation or America respectful of Native land ownership, though complicated history.
. . . But my point is even if they had coinhabited, I think people ought stick to their 'people, their cultures, their values, beliefs, religions.
Giving in, allowing one's children to be influenced and changed, is death of one's people come different and slower.
#21
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IlDiavolo
You must be kidding. Over 11k palestinian children have died in the last 12 months so this is technically a genocide,
That's not the definition of genocide. 

If you didn't notice the whole world is condemning these attacts too and the conflict is escalating into a regional war which tells you how aggresive the jews are.
You do know that if aisrael laid down all their weapons right now then they would be invaded and slaughtered, while if any of the people they are at war with did the same exact thing, those people would live in peace.  

While it's true that terrorists use the civilians as shield, there must be another way to fight them.
The options are to cave to them when civilians are used as shields or to attack and not give a shit. If they cave then it incentivizes the practice and in the long run puts more civilians at risk. It's the same thing the south American drug cartels were doing. You kill civilians or use them as shields and the state backs down and the practice is repeated. October 7th was a wake up call for how dangerous the practice was, which is why the plan for Israel to retreat so they could continue to use civilian hostages as a bargaining chip backfired. 

The Israelis routinely do stuff like warn civilians or they have been known to knock on the roofs of terrorist strong holds so civilians can retreat and give away a strategic advantage in doing so. Their enemies do not give the same courtesy.

I think you should honestly check the fact that you currently have higher standards for aisrael then you do Hamas or any other terrorist organization they are fighting. The higher standards are an admission that you realize that Israel is morally superior and more likely to listen to reason. 

It may be a form of racism on your part to tacitly treat these people as inferior child like persons.

the palestinians are in fact the only victims of this conflict because they seem to be more or less happy living toghether with the jews.
The Palestinians would kill a jew on site in Gaza while Israel has 1 million Muslims in their borders who are in fact more successful than the ajews in the borders with a higher percentage as doctors, lawyers etc.

On the other hand, if you want to find out when this conflict started, I would say since the jews stepped in these terroritories and created the israeli state
The territories were virtually empty when they got there. It is a desert. However who gives a shit.

The jews are only there because they (or the zionists) think they are the chosen people that need to obey a "God" that promised them a prosperous state
Well Israel is prosperous so there may be something to that. I don't really care why they are there. Most of the palestinian population was literally shipped there from Arab regions literally just to be a thorn in their side. I don't care about that either, bit neither side was "naturally" there. Who cares. Maybe your grandpa moved to the country you lived in for religious reasons. It doesn't matter. 

And this is the subject matter of this thread, to make visible the stupidity of the abrahamic religions.
Some people cheer too hard for the defeat of barbarism it's definitely not a good thing that anybody on either side has to die. You do admit in this perhaps unintentionally that fundamentalist thinking is the root of a lot of problems. The part you seem to be missing is that Israel state is pretty much secular and their war is against fundamentalist with a literal interpretation of the Quran. You just happen to be coming down on the side of a fundamentalist abrahamic religion here
#22
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
-->
@WyIted
They have a million Muslims within their borders I believe and so it's not a good ideal especially for democratically elected leaders.  Plus the war with the ideology is more for believers of other religions and atheists.
Aren't the far right gaining more ground in european elections? Any political mastermind should've considered the possibility of being the ultimate "savior of western civilization". The insraelis can claim that title right now by declaring war on Islam. That's positive PR. The fact that israel is exercising restraint makes me think that Netanyahu is a coward. He literally won a recent election, he should just start saying Islam is a dirty barbaric black hole.

Just so I'm clear, I don't have a problem with barbaric ideologies. At their primitive core, they're only ideas. But, I do despise muslims openly declaring these beliefs as the best of all plans, as if Allah had commanded the curse and downfall of every Kafir. Every muslim today have cited verses of the Quran that eloquently details the hypocrisy of the Jews. They literally say Jews are openly at war with Islam. There's countless amounts of dua (ritual after-prayer events) cursing Jews and Israel. It's baffling that Israel is exercising restraint with a literal satanic cult.

It's the game . I grew up in the ghetto and noticed this game of claiming peaceful and victimized while simultaneously... A few groups play this Game...After October 7thh attack on Israeli citizens, before Israel had a chance to respond. They were already calling it genocide...
Interesting past. Okay but you have the admit, none of the gangs you've interacted with are sanctioned by the state. Am i supposed to believe biden is behind those gang ethos? I don't think he'd stoop to that level.

On the other hand, Islam has legitimized this tactic and allowed its practitioners to turn their communities into ethnostates. For example, medieval sharifs of the Umayyads dominated every marketplace with a heavy preference toward arabs, and they routinely arranged riots to torture religious minorities.  It's the exact modern day equivalent of abusing your idonesian maid and indian construction worker for not being "muslim enough".

The  "game" would've been harmless if islam had only around 100 believers. Islam will remain influential, and as soon as I see a dumb muslim with a beard calling for jihad, I'll still continue to hate and cheer on the demise of muslims. I'd spare children, since they're innocent beings, but not the women or men. They're both imbeciles and i don't care what activists say. I'm not being racist, I'm only being a jerk to Islam's cult. The most heinous of ideas would only harm you if they start grouping up and calling for brutality and violence.

On a personal note. I am sorry you personally had to deal with fundamentalists.  I know you love some of these fundamentalists and it must be very tough. My sister is one and it's not as tough for me to deal with her given her respect for me, but it is a struggle watching how her children are raised. They are well fed and loved, but the chains on their minds is heart breaking. This is why I intentionally corrupt her youngest child. Her older child kind of needs the chains TBH so I leave her alone. 
I appreciate your words. I don't often see a person with good reason and logic. Just so you know, Gen Alphas are perhaps the most restricted of all the living generations. Your niece may not see it, but as she grows up, she'll realize she's being cornered by her mother and that's when your influence will start improving her life.
#23
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
-->
@Lemming
You said that civilian deaths are unavoidable, and that there should be appropriate deterrence in responding to hostage kidnapping. As I understand it, you seem like you've acknowledged the official death toll, and if so, how would you consider innocent human beings (esp. children) in a war zone? Clearly the videos that you see weren't altered.

For context, Islam commands children to be fully obedient of their mothers/fathers. They are told not to question their parents, especially if their parents are sharia-observing muslims. Fathers sympathizing with Hamas/Hezbollah could still use this justification and turn their children as human shields, and as fodder to israeli airstrikes because it would make their children the martyrs of Islam. To be a matyr is no easy feat, there's only a few things that can occur to you that makes you a permanent guest list on Allah's heaven. For instance, a building collapsing is a guaranteed way to ensure your status as a martyr. To fight and die for Islam, even if the children lie in pain and agony, is also a guaranteed sign of martyrdom. 

Entering into Allah's paradise filled with virgin women of pearl skin lmao could easily be blocked if you owe $1 in debt and that person has not forgiven you. A martyr is literally the quickest ticket to heaven. 
#24
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,353
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
I consider the innocent civilians unlucky.

Total_war is the path wars seem to take, especially in this modern era.

I'm not 'aware of any wars settled by Champion, ah wait, Flower_war Aztecs might qualify,
But still, I'm doubtful that Israel and Hamas would agree to such a contest,
Additionally what would it solve?

I think Hamas, based upon it's past would simply continue the same terrorism if they lost. maybe even if they won, depending on what were to be the wager of such a contest, though 'maybe if they had some success they would simply keep trying again and again with the champion contest until they had enough leverage to abandon it as a method and return to total war killing all Israelis.

Holmgang was also a bit like champion combat I suppose, but on a smaller scale, though perhaps it still kept families and villages from killing each other.
. . .

I suppose Israel 'could fight with it's hands tied behind it's back, not take the actions that near all countries take in war recently and currently.
Not bomb bomb factories unfortunately located in cities,
Not destroy enemy mortars set up on top of hospitals unfortunately,
Not attack the terrorists in a tunnel, who unfortunately execute their civilian hostages before they can be freed.
Not interrupt supplies sent to Palestine, that the terrorists end up stealing from the civilians in Palestine, along with much of the infrastructure that Hamas rips up so they can use it to kill more Israelis.

Urban war is messy I hear, it's too bad, but that is where the war is.
. . . Given the roof knocking and not intentional murder of civilians, various other conventions, Israel probably 'already fights with a hand behind it's back, unlike Hamas.
#25
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
Aren't the far right gaining more ground in european elections? Any political mastermind should've considered the possibility of being the ultimate "savior of western civilization". The insraelis can claim that title right now by declaring war on Islam. That's positive PR. The fact that israel is exercising restraint makes me think that Netanyahu is a coward. He literally won a recent election, he should just start saying Islam is a dirty barbaric black hole.


The far right is gaining ground but they are still outsiders. It is a battle for the soul of Europe. Today's vs of liberalism is suicidal. 

The Overton window is just not in a place to attack Islam like that. Israel has Muslims in their military and a lot of Muslim citizens so politically they have to be careful what they say or be unelectable. 

There is another overlooked downside. You and me are familiar enough with the Quran to know it is a bigoted book. However there is a decent sized minority of Muslims who don't realize it, and I wonder if pointing it out to these Muslims who are unaware would backfire and instead of turning them away from Islam They just lean into fundamentalist beliefs and become dangerous.

I think the solution is probably for people with Western values to unite under Christian values, probably orthodoxy or catholicism so you can go to war with Islam under the banner of religious freedom. 

Until Islam is wiped out you can't really unite secular people against the threat. I think sensible atheists are starting to realize this as well and it's why you have people starting to call themselves cultural Christians. 

My sister was a hardcore liberal until she got into the church and it wrecked part of her mind but made another part of her mind more sensible. You have to think of power vacuums. The church becoming weaker has made people leave their faith and you left your faith and embraced rationality but not all people do. A lot of these people just replace a God centered religion with the secular religion of humanism or with woke ideology. Neither ideology is prepared to deal with the spread and threat of radical Islam. 

The crusades are the only reason we aren't under a one world religion as we speak, and mankind has forgotten why the crusades were necessary,  so I think that once again it is just going to take Christians to beat back this threat and then we can worry about transitioning people to rationalism after the threat is taken care of, or we can just look at Christianity as a necessary evil that's existence stops the spread of the woke mind virus and keeps radical Islam in check. 

I know that it's partially just the Jews digging their own grave. Jews push for mass i.migration more than anyone and are just too shortsighted to see that eventually a nuclear power will have a democratically elected Muslim who will not mind sending a nuke at Israel and the consequences of the action be damned. 


#26
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,466
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
a literal satanic cult.
It's interesting you describe it this way, but honestly it seems more true than you may realize. The book of revelation speaks of a one world religion. It speaks of beheading Christians who essentially opt out of paying jizya.  

I can see a lot of similarities to the religion and the one world religion prophesied 
#27
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,611
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Aren't most Humans really just bugs?
#28
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
-->
@FLRW
Therefore we should exterminate them? FLRW with the one liners. Dang I remember when polytheist went crazy and you'd reply with random stats lmao
#29
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
-->
@WyIted
The far right is gaining ground but they are still outsiders. It is a battle for the soul of Europe. Today's vs of liberalism is suicidal...The Overton window is just not in a place...Israel has Muslims in their military...

The far right is supposed to project itself from a position of strength. I'm not a political guy, but I'm pretty sure any observer would conclude that political junkies come in all shapes and sizes. Advocating for limited immigration and raising retirement age are all policies that could only work if your prime minister is a literal cave man. That's who Netanyahu is suppsoed to be. In a list of far right leaders, he's probably the lowest among them because he can't even defend israel properly. Gaza isn't europe and it's been a whole year with no end in sight for the small town. It is literally Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and it doesn't take long to travel all over it.

Israel made a calculative mistake in using Hamas as an excuse. In executing bigoted and hateful extremist (moderate, fringe & radical Sunni) muslim civilians, they've popularized Hamas' standing on the international stage. Netanyahu isn't a socialist or whatever so I think he is supposed to be a violent cave man. He should've declared war on islam from the beginning. If he did, muslims would still do the same thing they've always been doing: hating on jews. And, the west wouldn't look up to Hamas as a potential comparison. It is baffling that your average far-right leadership is cowering to Islam.

Le Penn did the same thing in France. In counties she controls, she funded mosques for Sunni Traditionalists.
#30
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 100
1
2
4
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
1
2
4
-->
@WyIted
There is another overlooked downside. You and me are familiar enough with the Quran to know it is a bigoted book. However there is a decent sized minority of Muslims who don't realize it, and I wonder if pointing it out to these Muslims who are unaware would backfire and instead of turning them away from Islam They just lean into fundamentalist beliefs and become dangerous.
Well, I don't know the average western person  because I'm a recent convert of christianity, so I'm not sure how i can help. But, I think you already know this and some of your colleagues may not, and I think places like america has a mixture of many diverse cultures. So i'm referring to all of them, not just your political allies. I'm also referring to dumb moderate muslims who are eager to sacrifice for democracy but retain some sort of love to Muhammad.

All of them need to understand that Kuffars sanitize and promote the vile teachings of Muhammad. They sanitize themselves of the abuse Islam has had on the world, and project themselves as some sort of a peaceful moderate. Taymiyyah himself had confronted the Mongolian War Lord and accused him publicly of being a Kuffar. This isn't a topic that should be explored, it is a topic already solved by the Ulama. Kuffars existed ever since Muhammad existed. It has religious and historical precedent. Muslim scholars from Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei have all concluded the same thing about being a Kuffar, and their mid-east partners from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan have acknowledged their conclusions to be authentic and true. An American muslim man from indonesia differs little from an American muslim man from saudi arabia. They may both attend parties and acknowledge Biden to be president, but they are deviants awaiting potential instruction from a charismatic cleric.

Every Kuffar need to renounce their belief in muhammad completely, and stop popularizing stuff like Inshallah and Wallahi in their TikToks. Islam should be treated in the same dust bin as Nazism. I never had any sympathy as a kid when i heard that allies relentlessly bombed cities of Nazi Germany, because i know they were responsible for Hitler's initial ascent to power. Islam hasn't a reformation in its entire 1500+ rule on earth, and as soon as those moderate muslims get backlash, they'll turn to Muhammad and start chanting curses on jews.