Longtermism should be used to make policy decisions

Author: WyIted
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#1
WyIted
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So I will often challenge people on the long-term effects of policy on future generations and people have begun to notice. There is a train of thought that policy-making should focus on short-term impacts and that future generations can go fuck themselves.

I don't usually talk about things like long-termism because it's pretty niche and it's one of those ideals that has origins in the lesswrong community. I no longer associate with the community and closely related ones like effective altruism, but their ideals have been very influential on my thinking and approach. Now that we have some famous cults forming from branch off organizations and Sam Bankman Fried being associated with it, I just don't mention or engage with the less wrong community. I also have philosophical differences of belief with them, due to them being retards who actually care about avoiding cognito hazards and encourage a conservative approach to technological advancement.

Anyway, longtermism is popular in these communities and I mention them so you know where to look to engage with thinkers who promote the ideology and to learn more about the ideology itself.

essentially most of us would agree that a trolley heading towards 5 people and we have the option to throw a fat guy over a bridge to stop the trolley from killing the 5 people, we would agree that is a good thing.

Well there is more future people on the planet than current people. We have like what? 7 billion, well there are trillions of future people and when making a policy position it is more ethical to make a decision that positively effects those 10 trillion people than to in the short term care about the effects on a mere 7 billion or so.

Peter Thiel I believe understands longtermism and so does JD Vance as an associate of Theil's which is why you will occasionally see him slip and talk about how those with children will normally support better policies, all else being equal. This belief comes from the belief that we should be willing to make some sacrifices in this generation if it makes the lives of trillions of future people better.

This philosophy is objectively correct unless you are a piece of shit who answers the trolley problem wrong. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/05/opinion/the-case-for-longtermism.html
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#2
WyIted
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quote from article

But society tends to neglect the future in favor of the present. Future people are utterly disenfranchised. They can’t vote or lobby or run for public office, so politicians have scant incentive to think about them. They can’t tweet, or write articles, or march in the streets. They are the true silent majority. And though we can’t give political power to future people, we can at least give them fair consideration. We can renounce the tyranny of the present over the future and act as trustees for all of humanity, helping to create a flourishing world for the generations to come.
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@WyIted
essentially most of us would agree that a trolley heading towards 5 people and we have the option to throw a fat guy over a bridge to stop the trolley from killing the 5 people, we would agree that is a good thing.
No, thats not a good thing.

Survival of the fittest doesnt work when you reward retards who make stupid careless decisions, but punish the guy who made a smart decision.

#4
IwantRooseveltagain
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So I will often challenge people on the long-term effects of policy on future generations and people have begun to notice.
Define often. I’ve been here for a while and you just started this today

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@Best.Korea
Survival of the fittest doesnt work when you reward retards who make stupid careless decisions, but punish the guy who made a smart decision.
America has had a progressive tax system doing exactly that, and look how fit America is now!

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@WyIted
Well there is more future people on the planet than current people. We have like what? 7 billion, well there are trillions of future people and when making a policy position it is more ethical to make a decision that positively effects those 10 trillion people than to in the short term care about the effects on a mere 7 billion or so.
Well, then your position doesnt make any sense.

You argue for careless pollution, trash capitalism, mindless consumerism, Trump and Christian religion which reduces IQ of its followers. Maybe you think those things help future generations, but they dont.
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#7
WyIted
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Define often. I’ve been here for a while and you just started this today
once a year
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@WyIted
Well there is more future people on the planet than current people. We have like what? 7 billion, well there are trillions of future people and when making a policy position it is more ethical to make a decision that positively effects those 10 trillion people than to in the short term care about the effects on a mere 7 billion or so.
The  determinant on whether longtermism is adopted or not is completely dependent on the variable of the legacy of physical progeny. This is why anti-gibbers are so against the rule of beta boy incels and cat ladies.

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WyIted
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You argue for careless pollution, trash capitalism, mindless consumerism,


wrong


Trump and Christian religion which reduces IQ of its followers.


It doesn't and a thorough understanding of RK selection shows why high IQ liberals are not reproducing while moderate to high IQ conservatives are reproducing at large levels.


Maybe you think those things help future generations, but they dont.
Yes not replicating what North Korea does actually does help people
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#10
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@Greyparrot
The  determinant on whether longtermism is adopted or not is completely dependent on the variable of the legacy of physical progeny. This is why anti-gibbers are so against the rule of beta boy incels and cat ladies.
correct, they are essentially hedonists who don't care about future generations and are making the same mistake the boomer generation did
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@WyIted
high IQ liberals are not reproducing while moderate to high IQ conservatives are reproducing at large levels
That is not relevant to my argument.

But yes, people with lower IQ are more likely to reproduce more, but sadly for the low IQ republican, creating offspring does not guarantee that such offspring will be republican.

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@Best.Korea
You argue for careless pollution, trash capitalism, mindless consumerism,
The government has regulated all of those things. Today, you can't swim in the river of any over-regulated city in the world because the government gets to decide what pollution is, and the government is controlled by lobbies. If you want to live in a clean city, don't allow government to stop you from cleaning it up. I recently visited Canada and there are a fuckton of regulations over the use of water. The end result is some official declared geese to be a sacred animal. Now overpopulated geese have deposited enough goosepoop in the lakes as to make it undrinkable, unswimmable and unfishable. A Canada goose poops about 28 times a day, producing up to 2 lbs. of droppings daily! Goose poop can contaminate lake water with bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella.

In a free society or benevolent dictatorship, those geese would take a back seat to humans.

Arguing for continuing the oligarchy of elites is asking for more of the same pollution.
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@WyIted
Yes not replicating what North Korea does actually does help people
Thats strange, given that North Korea has higher birth rates.

I guess North Korea is the future now. Nukes, higher birth rates than USA, LGBT banned...are you sure you arent arguing for North Korean version of USA?

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@Greyparrot
In a free society, those geese would take a back seat to humans.
In Gp's imaginary kingdom far far away...

But the cleanest countries are exactly those where government imposed regulations to save environment. It doesnt take exactly a big brain to figure out that most of the trash and pollution is produced by the very same profit driven producers you argue for.
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@Best.Korea
But the cleanest countries are exactly those where government imposed regulations to save environment.

Like Paris?
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#16
WyIted
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@Best.Korea

But yes, people with lower IQ are more likely to reproduce more, but sadly for the low IQ republican, creating offspring does not guarantee that such offspring will be republican.
so people in the 140 IQ plus range are reproducing less than those in the 120 IQ range and those with a fast life strategy in the below 100 IQ range are reproducing less because of better birth control methods and access to abortions,

if most republicans or the ones reproducing in the 120-130 range are reproducing a lot and they are and

democrats who are at both the high and low end of the bell curve are reproducing less than moderately high IQ republicans are going to reproduce more and have more control over institutions.
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@WyIted
so people in the 140 IQ plus range are reproducing less than those in the 120 IQ range and those with a fast life strategy in the below 100 IQ range are reproducing less because of better birth control methods and access to abortions,
if most republicans or the ones reproducing in the 120-130 range are reproducing a lot and they are and
democrats who are at both the high and low end of the bell curve are reproducing less than moderately high IQ republicans are going to reproduce more and have more control over institutions
Well, thats irrelevant, but I already gave an answer to that.

Just because republican gives birth to an offspring doesnt mean that his offspring will be republican. Most of the youth and most of smart people are democrats.
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@Best.Korea

Just because republican gives birth to an offspring doesnt mean that his offspring will be republican. Most of the youth and most of smart people are democrat.
This is incorrect in general. Most people who grow up in Republican households and value things like border security and the right to self defense will still support those things as adults
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@Greyparrot
Like Paris?
No, I dont like Paris.

Okay, maybe I like it a little. But I am not that impressed by the tower and everything.
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@WyIted
This is incorrect in general. Most people who grow up in Republican households and value things like border security and the right to self defense will still support those things as adults
Being a republican is no guarantee that you will always give birth to republican offspring.

Thats why most of the youth are democrats and democrats win the majority. This isnt hard to understand.
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@Best.Korea
Just because republican gives birth to an offspring doesnt mean that his offspring will be republican.
When you keep your kids out of the government ran schools, they tend to become good (Conservative) people, assuming the parents are good.  When you throw them into the environment of public schools and colleges, then they will come back with pink hair.  I would say that keeping their minds from the education of freaks would be a smart thing to do.

The left barks about climate change and to have less children or any children at all, OR to kill those babies because they just are in the way of your road to happiness and pure bliss.

Not a good strategy for keeping the liberal flame alive.

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#22
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@Best.Korea
B
eing a republican is no guarantee that you will always give birth to republican offspring.
yes also avoiding the smoking of cigarettes is no guarantee that you won't get cancer. This is very insightful and you are certainly not a retard for pointing out statistical outliers exist.

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@DavidAZZ
When you keep your kids out of the government ran schools, they tend to become good (Conservative) people
"Good conservative people" is a contradiction in terms.

There is nothing good about cutting infant's dicks or restricting people's education just so that you can convert them because your current methods of converting people dont work.
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@Best.Korea
Are you really comparing circumcision which benefits a kid more than harms them to force feeding gay boys hormones and removing their penis?
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@WyIted
yes also avoiding the smoking of cigarettes is no guarantee that you won't get cancer
Another irrelevant thing.

Does the argument of youth being mostly democrat really hurt so much? Do the numbers confuse you, how republicans reproduce more but most of the kids in USA are democrats?

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@Best.Korea
Did you get your dick cut?
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@WyIted
Are you really comparing circumcision which benefits a kid
Benefit is a subjective term.

Besides, I have not really seen any country benefiting from mass circumcision. In fact, best and healthiest countries are usually those with no mass circumcision.

Plus, I have already told you that trans make less than 1% of population.

Maybe you think its better to cut 50% of the population against their will than 1% willingly, but I guess then you cant really complain about cutting.
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#28
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@Best.Korea
oes the argument of youth being mostly democrat really hurt so much? Do the numbers confuse you, how republicans reproduce more but most of the kids in USA are democrats?
No it just doesn't really address the trends I pointed out. We know that as people get older and acquire more knowledge they learn that communism is bad so vote republican and we also know that kids from republican parents are more likely to become republicans than ones of liberal parents. We also know that conservatives are reproducing more than liberals and that the latest generation is about 30% conservative up from previous generations starting out as 90% conservative so the demographic shift towards people who want border security, who do believe that some people should be allowed to own guns and who oppose pedophilia are growing in number
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@DavidAZZ
Did you get your dick cut?
I was circumcised.

It resulted in me having a bent dick and turned me into a sadist. I cant really claim to be extremely happy about it.
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@WyIted
We know that as people get older and acquire more knowledge they learn that communism is bad so vote republican
Again, thats a stupid opinion.

The difference in votes between republicans and democrats is obvious. The democrats consistently get more votes from both youth and highly educated ones, as well as from migrants.