"Weird" take by the establishment elites.

Author: Greyparrot

Posts

Total: 125
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
yes the article claims 50% of democrats opposed it because it could potentially have some victims be labeled as traffickers and punished. It's something that had a 1 in a million chance of occurring in practice so it was a bullshit excuse they were forced to disregard after the bill was unnecessarily changed to address something unlikey to occur ever.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
yes the article claims 50% of democrats opposed it because it could potentially have some victims be labeled as traffickers and punished. It's something that had a 1 in a million chance of occurring in practice so it was a bullshit excuse they were forced to disregard after the bill was unnecessarily changed to address something unlikey to occur ever.
Ok, so you just read it now. But your interpretation of what you read is wildly inaccurate.

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
You can’t even digest that tiny LA Times article on a child trafficking bill. Am I supposed to believe that you read and understood that study on welfare and welfare reform? For starters, the study wasn’t looking at Social Security it was looking at SSI. It was not looking at Medicare benefits it was looking at Medicaid, along with food stamps and TANF, which you probably would need to look up to know what it stands for. Lol
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
yes the article claims 50% of democrats opposed it because it could potentially have some victims be labeled as traffickers
Nowhere in the article does it say 50% of democrats opposed it”.

You just made that up. Terrible reading comprehension 

So what have we learned from all this? 

A. You don’t know what you are talking about?
B. You have no business thinking you can discuss politics?
C. You don’t have the ability to read and understand an article or a study on complex subjects?
D. All of the above?

Definitely D

WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
You can’t even digest that tiny LA Times article on a child trafficking bill. Am I supposed to believe that you read and understood that study on welfare and welfare reform? For starters, the study wasn’t looking at Social Security it was looking at SSI. It was not looking at Medicare benefits it was looking at Medicaid, along with food stamps and TANF, which you probably would need to look up to know what it stands for. Lol
It doesn't matter. Either economic interventionism works or it does not work. We can look at the economic freedom index to see if countries like north korea and venezuala are doing better than the scandinavian countries at the top and then see. If there is a direct correlation between the level of economic freedom and prosperity, than we simply maximize that input to get better results.

I would look into systems thinking if I were you. You want to look at systems as a whole. If an input increases an outcome you are after, than you put the peddle to the medal with that input. If the input level harms an outcome you are after than you eliminate that input entirely.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
So to be clear, you have no idea what TANF stands for.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
So to be clear, you have no idea what TANF stands for.
I just googled it. I think I have heard of it before, but it doesn't enter conversation much. It looks like some temporary form of welfare.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
it's economic interventionism though and the studies on economic interventionism, show it to have bad results
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
it doesn't enter conversation much.
Doesn’t enter your conversations because you have no idea what it is and who uses it.

TANF was one of the major sources of support looked at by the study you cited. You don’t even know what your reading, if you read it at all.

WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
TANF was one of the major sources of support looked at by the study you cited. You don’t even know what your reading, if you read it at all.
I don't need to read it. I have read several studies on the effectiveness of welfare about several years ago for a series of debates I did, where I defeated the liberal multiple times. I remember the conclusions of the Studies I cited from the CATO institute. 
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
I will see if my notes are recoverable. 
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Here is some notes from one of the Welfare debates. I think this took place in 2015 but economic interventionism works the same

WELFARE DEBATE

The government has created a welfare system that makes it easier to collect a free monthly payment rather than work. [http://reason.com...](https://web.archive.org/web/20150303115040/http://reason.com/archives/2012/10/03/its-easier-to-get-welfare-than-to-work) 
 
Many rational people are going to choose welfare over a low paying job especially considering the ease of acquiring it. This is especially true for people who's only other option is a minimum wage type job. Why would I get a job flipping burgers when I can just as easily collect welfare and have a ton more leisure time. 
 
 
State Hourly Wage Equivalent 
Hawaii- $17.50 
Alaska- $15.48 
Massachusetts- $14.66 
Connecticut- $14.23 
Washington, D.C.- $13.99 
New York- $13.13 
New Jersey- $12.55 
Rhode Island- $12.55 
California- $11.59 
Virginia- $11.11 
 
 
I honestly have no clue why anybody decides to get these minimum wage crap jobs. 
 
It doesn't matter if somebody is an honest hard working person, once they have replaced their income it's going to be very hard to get a job. 
 
**Welfare Discourages 2 Parent Households** 
 
Back in the 1960's president Johnson began his so called war on poverty. Which meant creating a bunch of new welfare programs and giving more money to the poor. Johnson's biggest concern in this war on poverty was helping black people overcome the economic gaps they were facing and disadvantages of not having as much inherited wealth. 
 
Since welfare funding has dramatically went up, the out of wedlock birthdate has tripled among African Americans. The income equality gap hasn't really been affected at all. The black poverty rate is still 3 times as high as the white poverty rate. 
 
Here is what the Cato institute has to say on the matter. 
 
_"Of course women do not get pregnant just to get welfare benefits.... But, by removing the economic consequences of out-of-wedlock birth, welfare has removed a major incentive to avoid such pregnancies. A teenager looking around at her friends and neighbors is liable to see several who have given birth out-of- wedlock. When she sees that they have suffered few visible consequences ... she is less inclined to modify her own behavior to prevent pregnancy.... Current welfare policies seem to be designed with an appalling lack of concern for their impact on out-of-wedlock births. Indeed, Medicaid programs in 11 states actually provide infertility treatments to single women on welfare."_ 
 
Kids that are born out of wedlock are more likely to commit crimes, drop out of high school, grow up poor etc. 
 
All the info in this section was gathered from the following location. All numbers pulled from this article are well cited. [http://www.discoverthenetworks.org...](https://web.archive.org/web/20150303115040/http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1672) 
 
**It violates the Role of Government** 
 
The role of the American government as stipulated by it's founding fore fathers and framers of it's constitution is to protect the freedoms of and secure the rights and property of individuals accordingly with natural law. The government's only purpose is just to be a collective force to secure these individual rights. 
 
The implementation of a welfare program is a violation of the government's role. Instead of protecting private property, they are now confiscating private property and giving it to another group. All individuals should be treated equally in the eyes of the government, but in the case of implementing a welfare program it actually gives preferential treatment to the poor. 
 
**It Helps Perpetuate a Failing Economic System** 
 
By instituting Welfare, you cover up the failures of the current economic system. By remedying the symptoms of the current economic system, you prevent society from so clearly seeing it's failures. Although most people who use this argument are Marxists, it's still a valid point and the criticism can be used by any competing economic theory. Instead of covering up for this systems failings, let's fully expose them so we can have the incentive to fix the source of the problem. 
 
**Conclusion** 
 
I insist that my opponent follow the structure of the debate. I have kept my opening argument to less than 5,000 words so he can post his opening arguments and rebuttals in the same round. After that we can agree to only use 5,000 words per round or stick with 10,000. I leave that option up to my opponent.

#welfare #poverty #economics #role-of-government #leftism

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
it's economic interventionism though and the studies on economic interventionism, show it to have bad results
This country, prior to the Great Depression, used to not engage in economic interventionism.

It was an unmitigated disaster. We had recessions and depressions every few years. The economy was regulated by greed and fear alone. The government was useless and clueless until the Democrats under Franklin Roosevelt determined this has got to stop. The New Deal led to dozens of programs and legislation that continue to this day, including unemployment insurance, the Securities Exchange Commission, and Social Security.

The result was no depressions or systemic failures until the S&L Crisis and Mortgage meltdown. Both happened under Republican control soon after they repealed some of the New Deal legislation and safeguards and deregulated some parts of the economy.

And we have already determined that you are unable to read and understand anything beyond a tabloid newspaper headline.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Did you know that prior to Roosevelt 80% of banking was done by local banks. That most of our food was locally grown but now comes mostly from major corporations and we had a ton of small business owners. Wouldn't it be better if the market was more competitive, people ate more locally grown food and if everyone was free to have their own business where they did not have to be slaves to major institutions?
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
Did you know that prior to Roosevelt 80% of banking was done by local banks. 
Those local banks failed and everyone lost their money. Because the banks weren’t sufficiently regulated and they gambled everyone’s money away in the stock market. It was kind of a big problem.

WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
This is why you outlaw fractional reserve banking, but that is a topic for another day. However it looks like prior to glass Steagull most banks were local banks, so we can attribute these monopolistic modern day evil business empires to the economic interventionist policies that killed small banks.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
If you want a small bank that is safe, join a credit union. The point is banks need to be regulated. Without government regulation it’s just a disaster waiting to happen.

Now we have the FDIC. Another New Deal invention that is still protecting consumers today.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
Did you know that prior to Roosevelt 80% of banking was done by local banks. 
Roosevelt saved the country and helped create the modern middle class that is dying today thanks to Republican deregulation, Republican tax cuts for the wealthy, and Republican anti labor practices 

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,078
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
 I have read several studies on the effectiveness of welfare about several years ago for a series of debates I did, where I defeated the liberal multiple times. I remember the conclusions of the Studies I cited from the CATO institute. 

As I suspected, didn't want to bore you with repetition.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
That's been debunked entirely and without question https://mises.org/free-market/how-fdr-made-depression-worse
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,078
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
Did you know that prior to Roosevelt 80% of banking was done by local banks. That most of our food was locally grown but now comes mostly from major corporations and we had a ton of small business owners.

As far as private farming goes, Wickard v Filburn eliminated that. Thanks to FDR.

And yes, too big to fail was all set in motion by FDR. That's the how and why govt bails out billionaire banks before taking care of the people.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,078
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
Now we have the FDIC...

A key component to the housing crisis as banks KNEW the feds were obligated to bail them out for bad investment decisions. Pure arbitrage. Most people don't have the IQ to delve into all the problems with our banking system and regulations, but they do know when groceries get too expensive and their standard of living drops.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 28
Posts: 4,569
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
FDR expanded the depression specifically for 7 years as conclusively proven by modern economists https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/fdrs-policies-prolonged-depression-by-7-years-ucla
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
A key component to the housing crisis as banks KNEW the feds were obligated to bail them out for bad investment decisions.
Wrong, your thinking of the guarantee offered by Fannie Mae to investors that bought their mortgage backed securities.

The FDIC insures bank deposits up to 100,000 dollars per bank.

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
FDR expanded the depression specifically for 7 years as conclusively proven by modern economists
Um, no. That’s silly. No credible economists say that.

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
I cited from the CATO institute. 
The CATO Institute. Lol

And you like to pretend the Bezos controls the Washington Post.

Charles Koch created CATO to convince the chickens that Colonel Sanders is a great guy.

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
The Ludwig von Mises Institute for Austrian Economics, or Mises Institute, is a nonprofit think tank headquartered in Auburn, Alabama, that is a center for Austrian economics, radical right-wing libertarian thought and the paleolibertarian and anarcho-capitalist movements in the United States.[3][4][5][2][6] It is named after the economist Ludwig von Mises (1881–1973) and promotes the Misesianversion of heterodox Austrian economics.[7][8][9]

Austrian.

Based in Alabama

Radical Right wing

And worst of all…LIBERTARIAN 

LOL


IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
promotes the Misesianversion of heterodox Austrian economics.[7][8][9]
Gee, tell me your thoughts on Misesian Austrian economic theory! lol

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,078
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
The housing crisis of 2008 was exacerbated by the moral hazard created by the expectation that major financial institutions would be bailed out by the government, particularly through agencies like the FDIC. Banks engaged in risky lending practices and investments, such as issuing subprime mortgages and heavily leveraging mortgage-backed securities, under the assumption that they were "too big to fail." This belief encouraged reckless behavior, as financial institutions felt shielded from the full consequences of their actions, knowing that federal intervention would likely prevent their collapse. This dynamic played a critical role in inflating the housing bubble and magnifying the ensuing financial meltdown.

The FDIC's role in the housing crisis was primarily linked to the sense of security it provided to both banks and their customers. By insuring deposits, the FDIC reassured depositors that their money was safe, even if the bank engaged in risky financial activities. This insurance reduced the incentive for depositors to monitor banks' behavior, allowing banks to pursue higher-risk strategies with less fear of losing their customer base. Additionally, the implicit understanding that the FDIC, along with other government entities, would step in to prevent major bank failures fostered an environment where banks felt emboldened to take greater risks, contributing significantly to the financial instability that precipitated the housing crisis.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
This is so funny. These two idiots put out this paper 1 month after Lehman Bros failed and the country entered the Great Bush Recession.

The people in charge of the economy at the time, Tim Geitner, Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke obviously told these guys to pack sand. The largest bailout in government history followed until we got Trump’s Covid bailout.

So much for those two losers. No wonder nobody has ever heard of them.

The FDIC's role in the housing crisis was primarily linked to the sense of security it provided to both banks and their customers. By insuring deposits, the FDIC reassured depositors that their money was safe, even if the bank engaged in risky financial activities.
The commercial banks wouldn’t have been able to act so recklessly if Glass Steagall hadn’t been repealed by Republicans (yes Clinton signed their stupid bill)