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@Greyparrot
Thats just in 2020.
Yet another example of dictator wannabe Trump
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@Best.Korea
still pretty cool
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@Best.Korea
Wow. Wonder why such a big deficit in 2020… weird…
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@cristo71
In 2019 too.
Trump is king (of deficit).
Tax cut! Deficit up! Yay!
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@Best.Korea
You sound like a dallas cheerleader.
Or harry sisson. I can't tell.
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@Greyparrot
You sound like a dallas cheerleader.
Thanks. The key is in practice.
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@Greyparrot
I find it interesting that the very people that fail basic civics on how government works also believes dictatorship of a single person could happen in a country with 3 separate and independent branches. Oligarchy, maybe. Dictatorship, impossible,
Forget civics, you need a basic lesson in human nature. Democracy doesn't enforce itself. Russia had checks and balances too. To believe it's impossible to happen here is to fundamentally misunderstand what government is.
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@Double_R
Oligarchy, maybe. Dictatorship, impossible,
Russia is currently run by oligarchs, so what's your point?
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@cristo71
Your above questions is based upon a misunderstanding of what Trump is joking about. In this case, (you know, your actual OP) it’s not even a joke about being a dictator. You are not parsing his meaning correctly; you refuse to be open to a different (and correct) interpretation
I am open to any interpretation which makes sense. Simply telling me what you think he was saying while ignoring the undisputable reality of who this man has shown himself to be is insufficient to any rational person.
Let's try this; do you deny that Trump has on multiple occasions, expressed admiration for various dictators specifically for how strongly they are able to rule over their country?
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@Double_R
Let's try this; do you deny that Trump has on multiple occasions, expressed admiration for various dictators specifically for how strongly they are able to rule over their country?
I can admire the movie "the little mermaid"
Doesn't mean it's possible to be a mermaid in America even with the help of RuPaul and plastic surgery
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@Greyparrot
Russia is run by oligarchs, so what's your point?
My point is that to claim it is impossible because of how our system of government was set up demonstrates a remarkable ignorance with regards to how government and human nature works.
Russia is an example because they have a system that on paper prevents a dictatorship. The problem is that the people of that country did not have the reverence for democracy that the US has/had. That is what Vladimir Putin was able to take advantage of as he gained power by corrupting the people who were supposed to uphold the country's system of government. That system is now just window dressing because of it.
Once people start to see their system of government erode they become fearful. Once people become fearful they go into self preservation mode. Once they go into self preservation mode they abandon their responsibility to preserve the system. Once they do that, there is no longer a system.
What has prevented this from happening here is our collective commitment to democracy, the very thing Trump is actively eroding (just look at ADOL's routine comments which you often cosign). Unlike 2016 he has a serious movement behind him, just look at project 2025. That's the fertile ground every aspiring dictator needs.
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@Double_R
Again what's your point? Russia is run by oligarchs, not one man. It's like you hear one thing, agree with it, and just go straight to fanfiction mode.
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@Double_R
Once people become fearful they go into self preservation mode...
You obviously slept right through the entire summer of love/riots.
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@Double_R
Now really, how DID you manage to turn my explanation here:
“he is not joking about ending our democracy; he is joking about the GOP garnering such a large part of the electorate that many (such as the people at this particular rally) can stay home on Election Day in 2028, and a win will still be assured.”
Into your misinterpretation here:
“he is not joking about ending our democracy; he is joking about the GOP garnering such a large part of the electorate that many (such as the people at this particular rally) can stay home on Election Day in 2028, and a win will still be assured.”
Into your misinterpretation here:
The prevailing narrative you and others are trying to offer is that he's joking about his christian base not having to vote anymore because their positions will be so popular it won't matter.
I wasn't that wrong when I called you a cultist.
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@Greyparrot
Again what's your point? Russia is run by oligarchs, not one man.
So you're telling me Vladimir Putin does not Jane fill and complete control over what happens within the country? Answer directly. Does he or does he not?
You obviously slept right through the entire summer of love/riots.
Andv what do you think those riots were all about?
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@cristo71
Now really, how DID you manage to turn my explanation here:“he is not joking about ending our democracy; he is joking about the GOP garnering such a large part of the electorate that many (such as the people at this particular rally) can stay home on Election Day in 2028, and a win will still be assured.”Into your misinterpretation here:The prevailing narrative you and others are trying to offer is that he's joking about his christian base not having to vote anymore because their positions will be so popular it won't matter.
They're saying the exact same thing.
The only thing I added was the fact that he was talking about the Christian base, which is not debatable, it's a fact. In the 25 seconds clip in question he said "Christian" 4 times.
Other than that the next biggest difference is that you said "the GOP" and I said "their positions".
Do you want me to go sentence fragment by sentence fragment to elaborate on how these two statements are functionally saying the exact same thing?
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@cristo71
Wonder why such a big deficit in 2020… weird…
Probably has something to do with that check I got in the mail that Trump made sure to put his name on.
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@Double_R
Do you want me to go sentence fragment by sentence fragment to elaborate on how these two statements are functionally saying the exact same thing?
Sure. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can explain in detail how someone is saying something distinctly different from what he thought he was saying like you can, Lex!
Commence with the gaslighting.
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@Double_R
Andv what do you think those riots were all about?
Certainly wasn't about "self preservation." A lot of people died and got arrested before Kamala set them free again.
Again, your fairy tale belongs in a storybook, not a history book.
Answer directly. Does he or does he not?
I'll give you the chatgpt response since I don't think it would matter if I paraphrased the same answer in my own words.
I already linked to you Bernie Sander's answer to why Russia is run mainly by Oligarchs.
Vladimir Putin, despite his significant authority and influence, does not have complete control over Russia due to several factors inherent in the structure and dynamics of power in any large and complex society. Here are some reasons:
- Institutional Constraints: Although Putin has considerable influence over many state institutions, he does not have absolute control over all branches of government, regional authorities, or local administrations. Various institutions have their own interests, traditions, and degrees of autonomy.
- Economic Realities: The Russian economy is influenced by global markets, internal economic policies, and the actions of powerful business elites (oligarchs). While Putin can exert pressure, he cannot fully control economic forces or predict economic outcomes.
- Bureaucratic Fragmentation: The Russian bureaucracy is vast and often fragmented. Different agencies and ministries have their own interests and agendas, which can sometimes conflict with Putin's directives.
- Public Opinion and Social Dynamics: While the Russian government exerts significant control over media and public discourse, it cannot entirely suppress or control public opinion and social movements. Economic hardships, corruption, and social issues can lead to public dissatisfaction and unrest, which can limit Putin's ability to act unilaterally.
- International Influence and Sanctions: Russia is subject to international pressures, including sanctions, diplomatic isolation, and global economic trends. These external factors can limit Putin's options and influence domestic policy.
- Political Elites and Factions: Within the political elite, there are various factions with differing views and interests. Balancing these factions requires negotiation and compromise, which can limit unilateral decision-making.
- Legal Framework: Despite attempts to control the judiciary, the legal framework in Russia still imposes certain constraints. Legal challenges and bureaucratic red tape can slow down or alter the implementation of policies.
- Corruption and Patronage Networks: While these networks often work in Putin's favor, they also create a system where loyalty is bought rather than earned, leading to inefficiencies and limits on central control.
- Military and Security Forces: Although loyal, these forces have their own hierarchies and interests. Ensuring their loyalty often involves concessions and careful management, which can constrain absolute control.
Overall, Putin's power, while extensive, is mediated by a variety of institutional, economic, social, and international factors that prevent him from having absolute control over Russia.
I'll give you the chatgpt response
Well that’s certainly better than anything you could come up with.
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@cristo71
Commence with the gaslighting.
It's not gaslighting, it's English.
For easy reference here they both are in their entirety:
Exhibit A:
[1] he is joking about [2] the GOP [3] garnering such a large part of the electorate [4] that many can stay home on Election Day in 2028, [5] and a win will still be assured.”
Exhibit B:
[1] he's joking about [4] his christian base not having to vote anymore because [2] their positions [3] will be so popular [5] it won't matter.
Now let's put them side by side:
[1A] he is joking about
[1B] he's joking about
[2A] the GOP
[2B] their positions
[3A] garnering such a large part of the electorate
[3B] will be so popular
[4A] that many can stay home on Election Day in 2028
[4B] his christian base not having to vote anymore because
[5A] and a win will still be assured
[5B] it won't matter
Again, the only piece of these two statements that is remotely different is that you were talking about "the GOP" being popular while I was talking about "their positions" (meaning that of the GOP's) being popular - a meaningless distinction. Every other piece means the exact same thing.
So please, enlighten me as to what is so different that my TDS won't allow me to see.
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@Double_R
Wrong. Just wrong… Already, your alleged “quote” below of what I said is missing my words in parentheses (which I included for a reason):
“1] he is joking about [2] the GOP [3] garnering such a large part of the electorate [4] that many can stay home on Election Day in 2028, [5] and a win will still be assured.”
You can just copy/paste what I wrote— no retyping required!— and then insert your numbers. Also, your phrase “their positions” looks, “to any rational person” who understands basic English, as though it is referring to the “Christian base.” Note that I never referred to the Christian base in its entirety as you have assumed, just the crowd at this particular summit.
As you like to say, “This is basic English.”
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@Greyparrot
I'll give you the chatgpt response
The chatgpt response is essentially that Vladimir Putin isn't an Omnipresent god who makes every single decision and directly controls every outcome within the country. Yeah, no shit Sherlock.
The best point they made to defend your position is the part about the legal framework. But that is hardly a meaningful point when anyone who opposes Putin's interests understands that they might suddenly find themselves accidentally falling out of a window.
There is one other part I think fits nicely into the conversation:
- Military and Security Forces: Although loyal, these forces have their own hierarchies and interests. Ensuring their loyalty often involves concessions and careful management, which can constrain absolute control.
This response you've provided along with this entire conversation is essentially you trying to argue that Putin is not a dictator with this being one of the reasons, and yet this describes exactly how dictatorships work. Rulling over millions of people cannot be accomplished without accomplices, and those accomplices will always pose a threat to the leader. That's why they value loyalty over competence (sound familiar?).
The fact that Putin has to work to maintain his power is exactly how it works. Providing this is part of the reason you don't think he's a dictator and by extension that Trump won't be a dictator highlights the problem here: you have an incredibly childish view of how these things work.
When we say Trump will be a dictator you seem to think that means the constitution will no longer exist, or that he'll just tell Congress to go home and they'll all leave and never come back. That's not how modern dictatorships work. They rule under a framework of legitimacy while making it clear to everyone how it really works.
I think it's also worth pointing out that the fact Putin has to work so hard to maintain his power is exactly why he hates the US and why he wants Trump back in the oval office. The biggest threat to him is that his people will want democracy and rebel, which looking at countries like the US inspires. Everytime Trump cultists claim the election was stolen they're feeding into the very narrative Putin dreamed of when he launched his campaign to get Trump elected. He wants our democracy to crumble to make his people feel that much more hopeless, that's why he wants Trump back in. And you and everyone else voting for him is helping him achieve it.
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@Double_R
When we say Trump will be a dictator you seem to think that means the constitution will no longer exist
North Korea has a constitution too. Anyone who thinks constitution prevents dictatorship lacks a working brain.
Any system, literally any, can be turned into dictatorship if all or most of the positions of power are taken by people blindly loyal to the dictator.
Its actually a very simple process. Mere control over senate and house of representatives already gives nearly infinite powers, as it is a very simple process from there.
The goal is simple then. Install your people to be judges and military commanders, and you basically have dictatorship over whole country.
The only thing preventing this from happening is a strong opposition, and if Trump says there wont be opposition in 2028, then you have reason to worry.
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@cristo71
Wrong. Just wrong… Already, your alleged “quote” below of what I said is missing my words in parentheses (which I included for a reason):
And I took it out for a reason; because it was either irrelevant or it was ridiculous
Here is your quote I removed:
“he is not joking about ending our democracy; he is joking about the GOP garnering such a large part of the electorate that many (such as the people at this particular rally) can stay home on Election Day in 2028, and a win will still be assured.”
You either believe Trump's statements were directed only to the audience physically in attendance or you believe he was speaking to the wider national audience.
If it's the latter, then this quote is merely intended as an example, so it is irrelevant to the substance of the message.
If you believe he was speaking only to the audience in front of him, then that is ridiculous on its face - no politician gives a speech to a crowd on camera without intending for that message to reach a wider audience.
Also, your phrase “their positions” looks, “to any rational person” who understands basic English, as though it is referring to the “Christian base.”
No, it doesn't. "Their positions" in the context of whether any particular group should go out and vote is clearly talking about the positions of the people whose names are on the ballot.
Why would the Christain base's positions being popular lead one to think the Christain base doesn't need to vote? That makes absolutely no sense.
I never referred to the Christian base in its entirety as you have assumed, just the crowd at this particular summit.
And I already explained to you that I pointed out the Christian base specifically because that's who Trump was clearly talking too, as evidence by the fact that he called them out specifically 4 times within the 25 seconds period in question.
"And again, Christians, get out and vote just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it’ll be fixed. It’ll be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore. My beautiful Christians, I love you Christians. I’m a Christian. I love you. Get out, you got to get out and vote. In four years you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to get out and vote.”
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@Double_R
that they might suddenly find themselves accidentally falling out of a window.
Or accidentally getting shot at a rally.
This also applies to Putin. (and Biden) Russia's oligarchy decides who comes and who goes.
And if you read the Bernie Sanders link, it works just like that in America too. (Bernie has 1st hand knowledge of how the oligarchs shoved him out of the way)
So yeah, you have a gross conceptualization error in how "dictatorships" exist. Both in Russia and America. The president may be able to appoint a few hundred people in government, but the government has millions of people with their own agendas. Too big to fail governments are essentially "dictator proof" for better or worse.
Basic civics taught most people that the founding fathers baked that into the cake long ago by making government large enough to encompass 3 separate branches. This was long before it turned into this massive hydra where Trump cannot hope to cut all the heads off. The guy who had the best shot at an actual dictatorship (FDR) still couldn't pull it off.
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@Double_R
And I took it out for a reason
Ah, so you were incorrect when you claimed this (If you find this parenthetical relevant, bolding added; if not, disregard… but I don’t have to tell you):
For easy reference here they both are in their entirety:
Were you intentionally lying, or no?
With “basic English” like this, who needs gaslighting?
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@Double_R
you have an incredibly childish view of how these things work.
Projection. I'm not the one defending and promoting hyperbolic government concepts and hyperbolic "dictator" characterizations.
You act like you have never been in the middle of a hyperbolic election cycle. Nearly every election in America claims it's "the most important one"
Hyperbole is a tradition and not actual reality. Stop pretending the show is real.