Ace Attorney Mafia DP1

Author: Casey_Risk

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Lunatic
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@Mharman
In my mind, an RVS is one of the first posts you make in a game, almost immediately after the game starts and nothing is going on. In my mind, it is not a post made a page and a half after the game has started, two hours after your first post. I felt like stuff was going on by then.
No it doesn't have to be the first post. I am okay with RVS anytime there is no activity or anything to go on. Nothing was going on by the time I tried that. 

I suppose I'll back off on that point given that different players are going to have different ideas about this sort of thing, but I don't know why you would expect me to have your idea on that.
Due to the fact that I have been off wylted for way longer than I was on him. I have been on you almost twice as long. 
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3. Luna said that lynching me might be a good call even if I am town, because I was wrong about scum and tunneled in a previous game. Advocating lynching someone even if they are town seems more likely to come from a scum player than a town player, imo.
There is still that
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@Lunatic
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Mharman
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@Lunatic
Due to the fact that I have been off wylted for way longer than I was on him
Due to the fact that Wylted had the whole debacle where he incorrectly CC'd Austin. I don't think anyone could scumread him after that.

I have been on you almost twice as long. 
The only reasoning I've seen you give is this whole RVS thing. Got anything more than a disagreement over what we think of when we hear the acronym "RVS?"
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@Lunatic
I should mention that you said RVS was a "random vote stage." I always thought of it as a "random vote start." Perhaps that's the reason for this discrepancy?
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@Owen_T
3. Luna said that lynching me might be a good call even if I am town, because I was wrong about scum and tunneled in a previous game. Advocating lynching someone even if they are town seems more likely to come from a scum player than a town player, imo.
There is still that

I stand by my decision to lynch anti town players. 

This was my response to savant "If you were to behave like that again I would 100% lynch you even if I thought you were town. I’ve done it before to teach lessons and I’ll do it again. I’ve played this game since 2010. I don’t care about winning anymore. I wan't healthy games. If players like you come in acting a fool every time in the long run I’ll lose a few games to get people like you to change your behavior to play normally. 
Lunatic
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@Mharman
Due to the fact that Wylted had the whole debacle where he incorrectly CC'd Austin. I don't think anyone could scumread him after that.
true

The only reasoning I've seen you give is this whole RVS thing. Got anything more than a disagreement over what we think of when we hear the acronym "RVS?"
I mean that was the whole argument
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@Lunatic
From what I've seen, Savant hasn't been fooling around at all.
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@Owen_T
From what I've seen, Savant hasn't been fooling around at all.
It's not fooling around that I am talking about. It's his insane tunnel vision. We've had multiple problems in games where his ego gets in the way and he will hard tunnel someone based on them either dis-agreeing with them, or for faulty reasons. He was right one time, and since then has led some crazy death tunnels against both me and pie in games and was wrong about them. He tends to not be able to look past his own confirmation bias and that can be a huge problem in mafia. I used to act that way all the time, and would lead mislynches, which is why it's kind of a harping point for me when I see other people do it. Don't want to see them making the same mistakes I used to make early on in mafia. Savant is a smart guy, he just can be a bit too stubborn, which isn't a good trait in mafia. I was hoping he had learned his lesson after death tunneling pie in the last game, resulting in two townies almost being killed. 
Mharman
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So it's getting late and I'm going to go to bed in about 5 minutes. I'll post my reads tomorrow morning, but the summary is that I still scumread Lunatic (for reasons other than his earlier vote on Wylted), I still townread Wylted, and I now townread Savant. These reads aren't based on any kind of POE- just my thoughts on their behavior. Additionally, I have a newfound FOS on Austin, so if something changes and I start to townread Lunatic while still townreading the other two, I will have a scumread on him. I have no thoughts on anyone else because I'm convinced we'll find scum among the previous four, but I will analyze them before posting my reads so I have something on everybody.
Mharman
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@JoeBob
Post #292, please and thank you.
Mharman
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Gn yall
AustinL0926
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great so Luna is obvtown

let's wagon Savant
Lunatic
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@Mharman
Post #292, please and thank you.
I dont think for this theme its a good idea. There are characters that I feel would be easily guessed at their roles by their claim alone. 
Lunatic
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unvote vtl savant
WyIted
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@Mharman
: I don't see how someone goes from slightly townreading Wylted for a slip, to going null on it, to then randomly voting Wylted
I didn't notice this behavior.  I now town read lunatic.  Let's lynch savant after Austin confirms he is not full of shit. 

Also somebody mentioned protection on Austin.  I need confirmation of savant to fully trust him here and him staying alive doesn't help with that.  So just let the scum team kill him please is they are dumb enough to do it.  
WyIted
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@Lunatic
Please be town because I don't need this shit about RVS every game which Wil co tinder tl happen if you are scjm

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@WyIted
Please be town because I don't need this shit about RVS every game which Wil co tinder tl happen if you are scjm
Sorry I don't speak Wylted. I need a translator
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@Lunatic
He tends to not be able to look past his own confirmation bias and that can be a huge problem in mafia. I used to act that way all the time, and would lead mislynches, which is why it's kind of a harping point for me when I see other people do it.
I was doing this for several years. Now I constantly think everything is potentially confirmation bias. Even when I sounded confident about Casey being scum.last game I kept going back to their posts So I could look for evidencenI was wrong. 

I am not asking anybody to waver in confidence or showing confidence in lynches, but they should be practicing dialectical thinking about their reads constantly. (Not to the point of paralysis by analysis only to the point of being open to other possibilities).

WyIted
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@Lunatic
Sorry I don't speak Wylted. I need a translator
I am not the beat person to translate wylted speak but I will try

I noticed that upon my return noobs seemed very confused by my own RVS. I would appreciate it if you are town so noobs can stop over analyzing RVS. If you are scum, they will see RVS behavior as scummy and I will have to experience this bullshit every game. 
WyIted
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Also

unvote VTL savant

I do town read lunatic now and id Savant is town its going to make me very suspicious of austin and I will want to look at a him vs lunatic situation and I would appreciate if nobody docs him because it will help me decide who is scum. I likely will be the selection for a kill on np1 or np2 so I won't be able to influence the game at mylo or lylo so perhaps narrowing down my POE doesn't matter much, but I would still like to see it happen
Lunatic
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@WyIted
I was doing this for several years. Now I constantly think everything is potentially confirmation bias. Even when I sounded confident about Casey being scum.last game I kept going back to their posts So I could look for evidencenI was wrong. 

I am not asking anybody to waver in confidence or showing confidence in lynches, but they should be practicing dialectical thinking about their reads constantly. (Not to the point of paralysis by analysis only to the point of being open to other possibilities).
In savant's case, I am more pointing it out that he doesn't actually scum read me. He is buying all into austins results. So if he is town then he is literally just having to create reasons to sus me because he knows he is town, which is the same thing he would do as scum with manufacturing reads IE; the confirmation bias. You see him doing that in post 270.

He goes from not scum reading me to "luna must be scum for reasons 1-3" and making a case out of it, as if it should be obvious. That's why if he's town I am gonna be pissed. Depending on whether austin is BS'ing results or not, I have a hard time scum reading this action independently, because we've seen him do it as town. Maybe austin has caught something of a scum tell and knows something we don't, or maybe he really does have results, in which case austin really is scum. But idk, I don't read this action itself as scummy but that's why I was lecturing him for it. I get being wrong about a read but still following through with it like you did with casey. Though in casey's case he also damned himself with that claim. I feel you could have been swayed by a rational argument from him, but he panicked under pressure and made a horrible claim without even discussing it with whiteflame.  


Casey_Risk
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Votes:

Savant (3/5): Austin, Lunatic, WyIted 
Lunatic (2/5): Savant, Owen
JoeBob
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@Mharman

Before 2000
pretty sure not a lawyer 
Mharman
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Alr I'm back on
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@WyIted
I didn't notice this behavior.  I now town read lunatic.  Let's lynch savant after Austin confirms he is not full of shit. 
Why would you town read Lunatic for this? If he believes that counts as an RVS, then sure it's not scummy, but how is that towny? Genuine question because you had the best reads last game.
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Starting on those reads on Owen, Whiteflame, Earth, and JoeBob
Owen_T
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So far, do we thing Savant or Luna is more likely scum?

I'm sticking to Luna. While we don't have good evidence on him, Savant hasn't been suspicious at all, unless I missed something.
From what I've seen, Savant hasn't been fooling around at all.
It's not fooling around that I am talking about. It's his insane tunnel vision.
The only tunneling he has done in this game is on you, which is justified because you are the two main contenders to be lynched.
WyIted
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Why would you town read Lunatic for this? If he believes that counts as an RVS, then sure it's not scummy, but how is that towny? Genuine question because you had the best reads last game.
More in reference to his erratic reads, which to me don't seem opportunistic but a genuine effort to scum hunt
Owen_T
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From what I know, he's an experienced player. He could very well be doing RVS votes to look like a townie.