UPick Mafia DP1

Author: AustinL0926
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#271
Savant
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@ILikePie5
Nice OMGUS.
Yeah, Austin accused me of that last game. Anyway...

Youre a scum vote thief. Your scum partner joined you Willy nilly. Probably Moozer, JoeBob, or Casey. 
You don't have any way of knowing this. In fact you said "I don’t blame Savant for claiming it, he probably didn’t know it was a super scummy role," and most of the time it is a town role for balance purposes, even if you sometimes give it to scum. But reads should not be based on a single data point anyway.

Vote thief is a scum role.
Stop lying, Pie. It is given to town most of the time. Your only contrary evidence is what you have done as a mod, but you are not modding this game. Austin is.
#272
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@ILikePie5
As scum, you should be scared. You know that you’re giving the shot to a townie if what I am saying is correct. Why should we not let a townie take a shot?
A townie shooting blind is not a net gain for town, and it is easily outweighed by the risk of giving an extra kill to scum.
#273
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@ILikePie5
And your reasoning is circular by the way. Your logic of "letting a townie take a shot" only works if I am scum and my scum buddy backed me up with my supposed plan (another incredible leap in logic), and you are relying on said logic to claim that me being scared makes me scum.
#274
ILikePie5
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@Savant
Yeah, Austin accused me of that last game. Anyway...
Lol, by definition you are OMGUS. I literally foiled your plan of basically possibly putting us at MYLO tomorrow.

You don't have any way of knowing this. In fact you said "I don’t blame Savant for claiming it, he probably didn’t know it was a super scummy role," and most of the time it is a town role for balance purposes, even if you sometimes give it to scum. But reads should not be based on a single data point anyway.
I don’t, but all the evidence points to it. You as a nooby scum didn’t think Vote Thief is a scummy claim. All the experienced people know it’s scummy af. You used it for the sole purpose of gaining town cred. Now when I came on and stopped the asinine plan, you OMGUS me. Sure it’s possible that Luna, Earth could be scum, but one out of the 3 of us has to be town. Who is that person and why don’t you want to give them the Vig shot?
#275
ILikePie5
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@Savant
A townie shooting blind is not a net gain for town, and it is easily outweighed by the risk of giving an extra kill to scum.
it is always recommend for a Vig to shoot NP1. 

And your reasoning is circular by the way.
No it’s not.

Your logic of "letting a townie take a shot" only works if I am scum and my scum buddy backed me up with my supposed plan (another incredible leap in logic)
They’re all noobs except Wylted, not that big of a leap. 

, and you are relying on said logic to claim that me being scared makes me scum.
Cause if the logic is true, your next step as town would be to give it to the townie in me, Earth, Luna, not just say we shouldn’t give it to anyone. The fact you did that shows that you’re afraid that us as town are getting the shot.
#276
ILikePie5
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@JoeBob
@Casey_Risk
@Moozer325
Your opinion is requested.
#277
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@Barney
@WyIted
Your opinion is requested
#278
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@Savant
I don't think we can lynch someone if we lynch rsvlts.
We can. First someone claims the shirt, then we have the remainder of the day phase to lynch someone.

#279
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@JoeBob
Lol, by definition you are OMGUS
Same logic that made me scum last game. Except I wasn't scum. Oops.

You as a nooby scum didn’t think Vote Thief is a scummy claim.
If I had gotten the role as scum, why wouldn't I assume it as a scum claim? Why would I assume it was a town claim, for heaven's sake? I initially assumed it was a town claim because I got it as town.

All the experienced people know it’s scummy af.
You have yet to justify this being a scum role aside from saying that it is. I provided a source. You didn't.

You used it for the sole purpose of gaining town cred.
Why wouldn't I, when it's usually a town role?

you OMGUS me
I provided my reasons for sussing you, and it had to do with your behavior. If you were doing this to anyone else, I would be calling you out as well. Just because you accused me first doesn't give you immunity to being accused. You know this, and relying on OMGUS logic just shows how weak your case is.

but one out of the 3 of us has to be town. Who is that person and why don’t you want to give them the Vig shot?
I don't know who town is, hence why I don't want to take the risk. I don't see why you need this spelled out for you. No one is 100% town right now.

Town, it should be obvious right now that none of Pie's conclusions follow. Do with that information what you will.
#280
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@Barney
@WyIted
We can. First someone claims the shirt, then we have the remainder of the day phase to lynch someone.
Wylted, if you can confirm yourself as town, we will give you the shot. Otherwise, we should give it to no one.
#281
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@JoeBob
what exactly does the shirt do, just give the person who votes last a vigilante kill?
Kills by looking so awesome!

But yes, it's mechanically just a bonus kill.

#282
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
opinion on what
#283
ILikePie5
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@Savant
Same logic that made me scum last game. Except I wasn't scum. Oops.
You’re OMGUS me is a fact. Whether it’s scummy or not, is different.

If I had gotten the role as scum, why wouldn't I assume it as a scum claim? Why would I assume it was a town claim, for heaven's sake? I initially assumed it was a town claim because I got it as town.
Cause you didn’t know it was a scum claim. You could’ve also had the MafiaScum website ready. Or you just thought you could pull the I’m confirmable stuff and skate by. At best this is WIFOM.

You have yet to justify this being a scum role aside from saying that it is. I provided a source. You didn't.
You can ask Lunatic, Earth, Wylted. Most experienced players. It’s a scum role. MafiaScum can go to hell. We also know that Austin has basically looked at every game on DART for analysis.

Why wouldn't I, when it's usually a town role?
As town, you would use it to steal the role of a scum member.

I provided my reasons for sussing you, and it had to do with your behavior. If you were doing this to anyone else, I would be calling you out as well. Just because you accused me first doesn't give you immunity to being accused. You know this, and relying on OMGUS logic just shows how weak your case is.
I accused you as scum because of your role. It’s scummy, period. Ur reason is Pie is aggressive. I know I am aggressive. And I’m twice as aggressive because there were townies on the plan to get you, a vote thief, a 1x vigilante. And it would have worked too if it weren’t for you meddling kid.

I don't know who town is, hence why I don't want to take the risk. I don't see why you need this spelled out for you. No one is 100% town right now.

Town, it should be obvious right now that none of Pie's conclusions follow. Do with that information what you will.
So you have no reads besides “Pie is scum for being aggressive.” Gotcha. I’m not going to clutter the DP any further.
#284
Savant
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@ILikePie5
it is always recommend for a Vig to shoot NP1. 
Again, a strategy claim that you haven't backed up at all. Vigilante strategies are generally debated, and with a 1x vigilantes it is generally better to save the kill until one has a clear target. That's not an option now, so we get maybe a random kill this night and maybe a scum-directed kill. That's a net loss.

No it’s not.
No response, then, as expected.

They’re all noobs except Wylted, not that big of a leap. 
You realize that scum can talk in the scum chat, right? If I was scum and had a plan like this, you don't think I would prepare my partner to not implicate themselves?

The fact you did that shows that you’re afraid that us as town are getting the shot.
Or I'm town and don't want to give it to possible scum.
#285
ILikePie5
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@Savant
Wylted, if you can confirm yourself as town, we will give you the shot. Otherwise, we should give it to no one.
Role confirmation =/= character confirmation. Why are you so willing to trust Wylted, when I have said that I can confirm myself tomorrow as well?
#286
Barney
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@ILikePie5
@Savant
Both of you please vote on it.

Basically because you're both accused of being scum, remove yourselves from the potential recipients, while still trying to help town get a weapon.

If one of you is correct, then only one scum is out there trying to get it; that makes it unlikely for them to win, but it can be discussed.

...

Everyone else, let's please carefully get the votes within range of hammering, and if anyone jumps for it side stepping discussion, we lynch that person.
#287
ILikePie5
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@Savant
Again, a strategy claim that you haven't backed up at all. Vigilante strategies are generally debated, and with a 1x vigilantes it is generally better to save the kill until one has a clear target. That's not an option now, so we get maybe a random kill this night and maybe a scum-directed kill. That's a net loss.
Experienced people on this site will tell you that it’s optimal. If it is a net loss, then why should we give it to you or Wylted. You don’t know if they’re town or not because role confirmation doesn’t equal affiliation confirmation.

No response, then, as expected.
???

You realize that scum can talk in the scum chat, right? If I was scum and had a plan like this, you don't think I would prepare my partner to not implicate themselves?
WIFOM.

Or I'm town and don't want to give it to possible scum.
Then you have to think that both scum are in the three of us because 66% chance is only scenario where you’d be this hesitant, yet you don’t know who is town…
#288
Savant
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@Lunatic
@Barney
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
You’re OMGUS me is a fact. Whether it’s scummy or not, is different.
OMGUS implies I don't have a good reason to accuse you. I do, and I explained it.

Cause you didn’t know it was a scum claim. You could’ve also had the MafiaScum website ready. Or you just thought you could pull the I’m confirmable stuff and skate by. At best this is WIFOM.
No, you are the one saying "x behavior is scummy." Just because I point out it is the opposite does not mean you can suddenly accuse me of WIFOM. And why would it not be a scum claim if I got it as scum???

You can ask Lunatic, Earth, Wylted. Most experienced players...MafiaScum can go to hell.
Sure we can get their input, but they probably use MafiaScum as well if they are experienced.

As town, you would use it to steal the role of a scum member.
Yeah, or to confirm my role. I can't use it at MYLO or LYLO.

So you have no reads besides “Pie is scum for being aggressive.”
I said being aggressive didn't make you town, and I am sussing you for your poor logic and justifications.
#289
ILikePie5
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@Barney
Both of you please vote on it.

Basically because you're both accused of being scum, remove yourselves from the potential recipients, while still trying to help town get a weapon.

If one of you is correct, then only one scum is out there trying to get it; that makes it unlikely for them to win, but it can be discussed.

...

Everyone else, let's please carefully get the votes within range of hammering, and if anyone jumps for it side stepping discussion, we lynch that person.
No one should vote until Luna and Earth come on.
#290
ILikePie5
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@Savant
OMGUS implies I don't have a good reason to accuse you. I do, and I explained it.
Your reason is Pie is aggressive. Tell me something I don’t know.

No, you are the one saying "x behavior is scummy." Just because I point out it is the opposite does not mean you can suddenly accuse me of WIFOM. And why would it not be a scum claim if I got it as scum???
Cause generally “town” roles can be given to scum. Your behavior is scummy. Literally you’re influencing most of the noobs to just follow your plan.

Sure we can get their input, but they probably use MafiaScum as well if they are experienced.
Lol, I’ll bet my left nut on this.

Yeah, or to confirm my role. I can't use it at MYLO or LYLO.
You couldn’t confirmed it and tried to steal the vote of a scum member. Yet you didn’t. Why?

I said being aggressive didn't make you town, and I am sussing you for your poor logic and justifications.
My logic and justifications make perfect objective sense. 
#291
Savant
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@ILikePie5
Experienced people on this site will tell you that it’s optimal. If it is a net loss, then why should we give it to you or Wylted.
It's a net loss to risk giving it to scum, town using it n1 is a tiny net gain. And maybe the doctor could protect Wylted n1 or something, but that's still not worth risking giving it to scum.

No response, then, as expected.
???
Your response was "No I'm not," which is a non reponse.

WIFOM.
You accused me of scummy behavior. I said "why would scum do that?" That's not WIFOM. The burden of proof is on you, the one making the claim that I am acting scummy.

because 66% chance is only scenario where you’d be this hesitant, yet you don’t know who is town…
No, even a small chance of giving scum the kill is very bad.
#292
Savant
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@Lunatic
@Barney
@WyIted
@JoeBob
@Casey_Risk
At this point Pie and I re just going back and forth. I'd like to see someone else weigh in.
#293
ILikePie5
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I’m not responding to Savant anymore
#294
Earth
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@ILikePie5
Probably should have seen Savant claim vote thief...

Anyway Pie is acting town, and I don't care who gets the shot, as long as town collectively decides who is the target. If, say, Joe hammers and town all says to shoot Moozer, but he shoots Pie instead, we can lynch Joe. Honestly? This is just another source of headache for town. It's scummy that Savant just stole my vote, but I'm too tired to think if he's scum or just eager Town. Perhaps we can arrange that Savant is shot and maybe we can VTNL.
#295
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@Earth
I don't care who gets the shot, as long as town collectively decides who is the target.
It's a strong possibility that scum can roleblock. Or save the shot for later and claim they were roleblocked.
#296
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Scum could even have a redirector for all we know.
#297
Savant
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@ILikePie5
Also, if I was scum, why wouldn't I just steal the vote anonymously and hammer at the last minute lol?
#298
Earth
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I thought the 1x vig was a dayvig kind of deal.

#299
Earth
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All good reasons to ignore the vote then lmao.
#300
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@Earth
I thought the 1x vig was a dayvig kind of deal.
Why would you assume that? Isn't vigilante usually a night role?