definition of "fascism"

Author: prefix
Fascism

Posts

Total: 357
Topic's author
#271
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
269

The endless linguine returns

what are the three examples you personally believe prove your case ?


Answered and proved.

Review the thread.

And now they have changed their name from " The alpaca is not a sheep" and later changed to "The Market Capitalist",  and later changed to " The humanist Hamburger Place", and now to  "The Endless Linguine" and now to "The Monotonous Meatball" and back to "The Endless Linguine".

Thus,  the topic remains that three real world examples exist where a previously socialist state morphed in a fascist state. This is especially true when we accept 3ru7al's definitions.


#272
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
State socialism is ownership centralized in the hands of the government.
so is state-capitalism

i wonder what the difference is ????
#273
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Feudalism is closer to socialism than capitalism. Look it up.
if a corporation (or cartel) owns all land and water and power in an area

they are functionally indistinguishable from a feudal lord
Topic's author
#274
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
272

State socialism is ownership centralized in the hands of the government.

so is state-capitalism

i wonder what the difference is ????

I'll bet you do.

"State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor)." ( WIKI)

"State socialism is a political and economic ideology within the socialist movement that advocates state ownership of the means of production." ( WIKI )

Condensing for those who need it 

Both State Capitalism and State Socialism want the state to be the owner.  Proven by sourced citations.

Do you agree with WIKI?


#275
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Both State Capitalism and State Socialism want the state to be the owner.  Proven by sourced citations.
ok, so absolutely no difference whatsoever ?
Topic's author
#276
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
273

if a corporation (or cartel) owns all land and water and power in an area

they are functionally indistinguishable from a feudal lord
Or congruently....

if a state  owns all land and water and power in an area

they are functionally indistinguishable from a feudal lord


And also indistinguishable from state socialism.  ( as I said above......look it up).

So we agree that socialism as a state is much like feudalism.

Topic's author
#277
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
275

Both State Capitalism and State Socialism want the state to be the owner.  Proven by sourced citations.

ok, so absolutely no difference whatsoever ?

You sure infer many things. 

In terms of who owns things, they appear to have the same goals. 

Perhaps the state owns the alpaca under state capitalism and the socialist state owns the sheep. Either way YOU DON"T GET THE WOOL.

So why espouse a system of "equal misery"? ( W. Churchill )



#278
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
if a state  owns all land and water and power in an area

they are functionally indistinguishable from a feudal lord


And also indistinguishable from state socialism.  ( as I said above......look it up).

which is exactly the same as state-capitalism
#279
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,922
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
@prefix
Government rides on the tail of Giant { Corporate Capitallism }. B Fullers 1979 book about this was ' Grunch of the Giants. '

Soviet CCCP { goverment } lost out to Corporate Capitalism. China adopted capitalism also to whatever degree.

Capitalism rules humanity, and the feud of competition between nations ex mainly CCCP, USA --and all nations--- led too the  unfortunate ecological conditions we find ourselves in today.

Canadian forests are  burning again this year, and they are close to the perma-frost tundra of Boreal Forests.

The Hidden Glue..." Permafrost is found under vast areas of tundra and boreal forest in the Arctic regions of Alaska, Canada, Scandinavia, Finland and Russia. But as CLAIRE TREAT explains, it is warming and thawing everywhere, with consequences not only for local people and wildlife, but for us all.

Permafrost is the word for frozen ground in cold regions where temperatures remain below freezing for much of the year. But the word itself is becoming something of a misnomer as permafrost becomes less permanent in response to climate warming, which is occurring far more quickly and having more extreme consequences in the polar regions. "...

Mind { Meta-space } over matter has not been accomplished well enough by humans on Earth, otherwise we would not find ourselves in this situation.
#280
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,652
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ebuc
You are right.

For tens of thousands of years, people had clean air and clean rivers, clean drinking water for free, environment that is healthy and clean from trash, and plenty of animals in the forests.

Capitalism managed to destroy all that in just 300 years.

It is the most destructive system in history, to the point where North Korea takes better care of nature and environment than any state Capitalist nation.

Some capitalist countries which are less polluted than others are those where government acted to edit free market to protect environment.
Topic's author
#281
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
278

You are almost to a point of understanding.

Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing.

It's like he used to be a vagrant
then he was homeless
For now he is unhoused.

New name, same problem.

Topic's author
#282
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
It wasn't capitalism that damaged the environment.

It was humans.

Their governance was irrelevant.

Rome dumped untreated waste into the Tiber; London into the Thames. Boston used the Charles.

China may have been the worst of all.

Russia destroyed Lake Baikal.

You can look up many more examples.

Capitalism has a casual but non causal relationship, as do all the others.
#283
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,652
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@prefix
It wasn't capitalism that damaged the environment.

It was humans
You cant have capitalism without humans, but humans before capitalism had much better environment.
Topic's author
#284
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
You cant have capitalism without humans, but humans before capitalism had much better environment.

DO you have a source from this bovine excrement?


Not because of their type of government , but because of all the humans there,
#285
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,652
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@prefix
What I am saying is common knowledge which almost everyone knows. I dont see how can you not know it, but I am not paid to be anyone's teacher here.
#286
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,922
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@prefix
Capitalism has a casual but non causal relationship, as do all the others.

Prefix, CCCP and Corp. Capitalism were in compettion.  

Tho some in the know, --via knowing how much lower the standard of living was in Soviet Union---  knew who was  the true  industrial leader was and going to be in future { 1990s  Berlin wall gone }.

Yes humans are the basis of the ongoing ecological devastation  to Earth, via the current operating systems in place for the standard of living desired of industrial growing population { since all time }  Much of which is unnecessary beyond the actual needs of humans to live happy lives.

Look at some potential options that I think  General Artificial Intelligence { GAI } could assimlate for humanity:

1} eat drink and be merry in sufficient safe if not also and energy harvesting shelter/domicile/home-a-cile,

It is well known that money does not buy happiness, it makes life easier. It made it easier for Tiger Woods wife made those statements, as she did  fly back n forth between native country and USA after her split from Tiger.

Happiness with a shorter life span ---for some period of future if not also less people---   vs extinction of humanity on Earth. No brainer.
#287
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing.

ok, so would it be fair to say "feudalism is prerequisite to fascism" ?
Topic's author
#288
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
Vacuous comment from you.

No thought by you.

If it is so evident, a source should be easy to find.  
Topic's author
#289
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
287

Historically, NO.
#290
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing.

ok, so would it be fair to say "state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism" ?
Topic's author
#291
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
290

ok, so would it be fair to say "state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism" ?

Perhaps so. 

How do you see that that might be the case?
Topic's author
#292
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@ebuc
I used to drive an old "economy car".

The name of the model was "Rambler"

Perhaps you are driving one now.
#293
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
ok, so would it be fair to say "state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism" ?

Perhaps so. 

How do you see that that might be the case?

because,

"Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing."
Topic's author
#294
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
293

ok, so would it be fair to say "state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism" ?

because,

"Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing."

Are you now  stating  that state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism?

If so, why?


#295
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Are you now  stating  that state-capitalism is prerequisite to fascism?
i'm asking you if,

"Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing."
Topic's author
#296
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
295

You already agreed to that in #293.
#297
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
(IFF) "Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing." (THEN) "Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism" are prerequisite to fascism
Topic's author
#298
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
297

(IFF) "Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism are essentially the same thing." (THEN) "Feudalism, state socialism and state capitalism" are prerequisite to fascism

Are you now agreeing with that statement?
#299
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@prefix
Are you now agreeing with that statement?
i'm asking if you think this is fair to say
Topic's author
#300
prefix
prefix's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 542
3
4
9
prefix's avatar
prefix
3
4
9
-->
@3RU7AL
299

Historically NO.

Also......when asking a question, it must be stated as a question. You conflate statements and questions  ( questments? )