Breath of the Wild Mafia DP1

Author: Moozer325

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#451
AustinL0926
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@Best.Korea
@Savant
What are your thoughts on whiteflame here? Like I genuinely don't understand why no one else sees how scummy he is.
#452
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@AustinL0926
Doctor, bodyguard, and bulletproof/bleeder is a ridiculous density of protective roles in a C9 game. 
I agree that 4 protective roles are too much, but I am not really in favor of lynching any of them now.
There are obviously at least 2 protective roles in game, so maybe other 2 are scum, but maybe there are 3 protective roles and just 1 of those 4 is scum.

So at least 1 is scum, to put it simply.

However, we already agreed not to lynch Savant and Joe, but to save that battle for dp2.

I dont feel like lynching whiteflame, because its not certain that he is the scum among 4. We could even say, with cc of savant by joe, its not certain at all that whiteflame is scum.

We are going to have to lynch soon, and I will stick with casey lynch.
#453
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@AustinL0926

I'm not scumreading you for pointing out that specific mistake of mine, and you know that. I scumread you for everything else this DP. More strawmanning please.

That being said, you seem awfully sensitive to votes on you. I wonder why...
You knew what you were doing when you said this. Trying to put it back on me for calling you out is just fucking rude, dude. You can say it wasn’t scumreading, but you’re trying to build a narrative with it that relates to how you see me as scum. At least own that.

#454
Savant
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@AustinL0926
The doctor thing makes him a possible suspect, but idk if the town has the will to lynch him based on just recent behavior. If it's between him and someone else, maybe I'll change my tune, but I don't know if lynching him today is even on the table. Really it depends on Luna.
#455
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And I also must say, I dont find it convincing that there are 2 scum among whiteflame, savant and joe.

There is 1 scum for sure, because there cant really be 4 protective roles.

But 2?

Why would 2 scum players both choose a protective role as a fake claim? I just dont get that.
#456
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@whiteflame
You knew what you were doing when you said this. Trying to put it back on me for calling you out is just fucking rude, dude. You can say it wasn’t scumreading, but you’re trying to build a narrative with it that relates to how you see me as scum. At least own that.
The only thing related between the two things you quoted were that they were in the same post. Awareness of votes is a scumtell separate from me forgetting to tag you. But sure, keeping spinning it on me. 



#457
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I find it much more likely that second scum is casey.
#458
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@Best.Korea
Look at how hard whiteflame has been defending Joe. Like at this point I'm scumreading Joe not even because of anything he's did, but because of what whiteflame is doing. It's ridiculous.
#459
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Well, Austin’s made one thing clear: continuing this back and forth isn’t worth the effort. If anyone else wants to sus me for being one of two claimed protective roles in this game, be my guest. I’ll respond to you after work.
#460
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@AustinL0926
Look, if we lynch whiteflame, then savant, then joe, we will hit 1 scum for sure, since one of them simply has to be scum by game logic. I find it insane that mod actually put 4 protective roles. That would be almost impossible.

The other scum, however, can so far only be casey, if barney is trully confirmable and if you are trully confirmable.

I am not that much in favor of lynching whiteflame because he is a somewhat better protective role than the other two.

Still, its up to Lunatic to decide. So if he says whiteflame is lynch, then whiteflame is lynch.

Its possible that whiteflame is scum, I just dont find it likely with a strange counter claim between savant and joe.
#461
JoeBob
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@AustinL0926
Look at how hard whiteflame has been defending Joe. Like at this point I'm scumreading Joe not even because of anything he's did, but because of what whiteflame is doing. It's ridiculous.
😑 think about what your saying for a second
#462
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
It's not even a certainty that either of you are scum, so I don't see the point in this arguing when neither of you are really lynch options dp1. Casey is likely our lynch, so unless you have alternatives for today, we should be pressuring him to defend himself.
#463
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@JoeBob
If you're town, whiteflame is doing a brilliant job of making you look scummy.
#464
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@Savant
I'm pretty sure Casey is going to flip town at this point. Like seriously, lynch whiteflame, and then when he flips guilty, we'll decide who to lynch between you and Joebob. Heck, if whiteflame is innocent, I'll be the first to vote myself next DP (but believe me, it's not going to happen).
#465
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Like if we really can't decide on a lynch, I'm fine with Luna yeeting Casey if only so we can get this distraction out of the way. But it's frustrating that people are townreading whiteflame for what seems like no reason at all.
#466
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@AustinL0926
if whiteflame is innocent, I'll be the first to vote myself
We dont have infinite lynches to lynch you after whiteflame.

In the next 3 lynches, we have to hit 1 scum.

We cant base our votes on revenge voting like that, so even if you promise to vote yourself, the rest of us could not logically follow to lynch you.
#467
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@AustinL0926
Look, instead of trying to lynch whiteflame, can you tell me why casey is town?

Currently, the lynch seems to be between whiteflame and casey.

I dont think you can say with great confidence that casey is town. I mean, she is even a policy lynch due to inactivity.
#468
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@Best.Korea
It was mostly just rhetoric, since my role will confirm me anyway. But seriously, why do you townread whiteflame?
#469
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@Best.Korea
I think Casey is null at best and being anti-town through lack of activity, and I agree their claim isn't the best. In the absence of a superior lynch, I would have no problems going for them.

But whiteflame is being transparently scummy this DP. His behavior is so completely different from previous town games, and his argumentation so poor that I genuinely cannot believe he is town.

In other words, likely scum > possible scum.
#470
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@AustinL0926
But seriously, why do you townread whiteflame?
I dont really town read him, its more that I find what casey is doing to be scummy.

Also, the game logic doesnt add up much.

There is 1 scum among whiteflame, savant and joe.

But due to almost same roles of savant and joe, I find it unlikely that both joe and savant are town, so unlikely that whiteflame is scum.
#471
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Why would there have to be 1 scum between whiteflame, Savant, and Joe?


#472
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@AustinL0926
His behavior is so completely different from previous town games
I am bad at reading behavior, but I guess if other players can confirm that whiteflame's behavior is very odd, it should change things and maybe put him as lynch. There are other players who read behavior much better than I can.
#473
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@AustinL0926
Why would there have to be 1 scum between whiteflame, Savant, and Joe?
4 protective roles doesnt make sense.

It also doesnt make sense that two scums both claimed protective role.

So best possibility is 1 scum among those 3.
#474
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@AustinL0926
Mod was warned in previous game about how 3 protective roles is a bit much, so I dont see why would he choose to increase them to 4 this game. It doesnt add up. Also, I dont see why would whiteflame claim bodyguard after 2 protective roles were claimed and after he knew that doctor is likely in game. Maybe whiteflame misplayed as scum, but thats a very bad misplay from a very good player. I just dont see how would he make that misplay. 
#475
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@Best.Korea
Mod was warned in previous game about how 3 protective roles is a bit much, so I dont see why would he choose to increase them to 4 this game. It doesnt add up.
So 2 protective roles (Doctor + Bleeder/Bulletproof) makes sense. Bodyguard is the outlier.
Also, I dont see why would whiteflame claim bodyguard after 2 protective roles were claimed and after he knew that doctor is likely in game. Maybe whiteflame misplayed as scum, but thats a very bad misplay from a very good player. I just dont see how would he make that misplay. 
I've seen much worse. Barney (as scum) once claimed he bodyguarded me despite the fact I claimed I was untargetable by night actions. Reverse psychology just doesn't rly work imo.

#476
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Okay, I want to hear more opinions before we agree who will be lynched. I dont know how much time we have left until end, but people should post their views, and if majority agrees that whiteflame is lynch, then Lunatic should lynch him.
#477
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My opinion is still that we should lynch casey.
#478
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@Best.Korea
As I see it, the roles that basically CC one another (Bleeder and Soldier) should be the first ones we consider as strange when we note that there are four protective roles. Both are solely self-protective. I've never seen a game where a Bleeder and a 1X BP are both included. I've seen plenty of games where there was a Doc and a BG. This is not a first, nor is it an outlier of any kind.

I'll also note that I most definitely would not have included that "100% success rate" in the description of said role. After asking Moozer about it and digging through the Wiki, I've noted that there are some instances where a BG has a 50-50 chance of working as it's supposed to work. I've never seen it played that way, but it happens. Why would I specify that in the claim? Why wouldn't I just claim it's a normal BG, which is what it actually is?
#479
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@whiteflame
As I see it, the roles that basically CC one another (Bleeder and Soldier) should be the first ones we consider as strange
I think that now lynch is casey, and in dp2 we can have more info to choose between joe and savant, or anyone else. I dont see why would casey go to dp2. No reads, no activity, not confirmable. I prefer games where people are active. Casey is by almost all standards a policy lynch.
#480
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Regarding Whiteflame and JoeBob...

A couple back, Whiteflame risked looking like my scum partner with a very active defense of me. We were both innocent.

So his behavior with JoeBob fits his town play. Plenty of other reasons he could be scum, just not this. In fact, if either flips scum I would be more likely to believe in the innocence of the other (as scum, he'd advise JoeBob on argument styles to defend himself, rather than risking tying two boats together in the storm).