Breath of the Wild Mafia DP1

Author: Moozer325

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AustinL0926
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@whiteflame
Yeah, despite my belief that all four of the Champions are likely town, you’re the biggest outlier in terms of behavior, timing of your claim, and being unconfirmable. A full claim is in order.
Pretty much my own thoughts. At the very least, we'll hopefully get some activity from him. In general, I tend to sus active people less because they're holding themselves accountable for later behavioral analysis - with inactives, there's nothing to go off of and it's annoying to lose because of it.

Best.Korea
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@AustinL0926
Yeah I guess. Still, I want to see if Earth's role was in previous game. I kinda find it odd that the granny is used twice. Maybe for the comedy effect. I want to see if any other uncommon role was used twice. And we need Earth's claim anyway, this is just extra.
AustinL0926
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Also, just a thought - for all the people who have claimed their role is confirmable, they should also probably say whether their role confirms their affiliation (because I'm going to lose it if someone "confirms" themself as a double-roleblocker or something later on). I'll start by saying my role strongly supports I'm town, but doesn't quite prove it.
Barney
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I believe it's a mistake to assume too little from our host.

Yes, there were problems with the setup of last game... But that gave him opportunities to receive advice and do better this game.
Best.Korea
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@AustinL0926
My role 100% confirms me as town as soon as claimed.
Savant
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@Best.Korea
Saying that kind of gives away exactly what it is.
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@AustinL0926
they should also probably say whether their role confirms their affiliation
I think there are cases where scum is given an actual neutral role which can get confused for town role and even confirmed. Still, given that scum was also given fake claim of character, I find it very unlikely. Town needs to have a way to win, and it almost cannot win if scum has both main character claim and confirmable town-like role while town itself has 2 or more non-confirmable roles.
whiteflame
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I think that is risky in some cases, but I’ll give mine:

I’ve never seen my role given to scum, but it’s also going to be very difficult to firmly prove, so I doubt I’ll ever be fully townread once I claim it.
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@Savant
Saying that kind of gives away exactly what it is
There are no vanillas anyway. In games with vanillas, you pretty much hide important roles as much as you can. Here, any confirmable town role can be most important or most useless depending on how things develop. I agree that I may have rushed a bit there, and probably should have just said it can confirm me as town. Still, given the game setup, I think town can most likely win this, and I dont care if scum target me.
Best.Korea
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@whiteflame
I’ve never seen my role given to scum, but it’s also going to be very difficult to firmly prove, so I doubt I’ll ever be fully townread once I claim it.
If your role is confirmed, I will townread you. I have no reason to believe scum was given confirmable non-scum role. It would be crazy, especially if we know mod was given advice on how to balance properly. If this game is balanced properly, scum cannot possibly have confirmable non-scum roles. It would be way too much in favor of scum, since town only has 3 lynches to hit scum.
AustinL0926
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Yeah, like I feel with this many confirmable roles, the game should be mechanically solvable as long as we can confirm alignment. Even if not, we have a good starting point for POE.
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Earth was online 53 minutes ago, but last comment posted over 5 hours ago. Reading behavior is something I am very bad at, but it seems a bit weird to log in but not post.
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@Best.Korea
Not to read too much into it, but I did a similar thing in my last game as scum (Heroes of Olympus) while under pressure. I logged in, realized people were asking me for a claim, and promptly logged out to figure out a good fakeclaim. It's definitely a bit odd to not acknowledge the thread at all for sure.
JoeBob
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Mine isn’t given to scum, so I guess that does mean that it confirms me as town.
Best.Korea
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Similar for casey: was online, but didnt post in a long time. I dont know how to feel about this.
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@AustinL0926
I am not sure if scum must log in to talk to scum partner. I know I didnt use discord as scum, so its maybe also possible that one of the scums doesnt have discord so they can only chat through site's chat, which means they must log in. But yeah, it can also happen that scum accidentally logs in, and it probably happens often as its kinda tricky to log out all the time.
Earth
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I really don't know why people act like activity on DART matters, but I think nobody shouldn't full claim today. I don't know why people are sussing Casey's claim, and it's pretty obvious they are town. Again, people should keep in mind that Moozer is a new mod. 
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@AustinL0926
I don't see the harm in using it ASAP, but I would prefer if a majority of living players agreed to it first
Like I said I don’t plan on being a douche with it. I would like some sort of majority consensus if possible, unless town just like wildly disagrees or something
Earth
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@whiteflame
Keep in mind that Greyparrot was once a Mafia Mason. However, I think Moozer is doing things by the book, so I assume you are town. Assuming you are telling the truth of course.

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@Earth
Can you explain in more detail how your role works and if it's Xshot/infinite?
It’s definitely one shot, and I just get to unitlaterly choose one person to be the days lynch. I’ve seen this role in DDO used before but it was called a governer. There is a mafia variant called an executioner but that one requires at least half votes on a player first and it kills the person anonymously. I am not being anonymous and I will also prove my role with 0 votes on a wagon.
whiteflame
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@Earth
Keep in mind that Greyparrot was once a Mafia Mason. However, I think Moozer is doing things by the book, so I assume you are town. Assuming you are telling the truth of course.
I do recall that. I wouldn't have said I hadn't seen my role appear as town, or that it would be difficult to confirm, if I was the Mason.

I really don't know why people act like activity on DART matters, but I think nobody shouldn't full claim today. I don't know why people are sussing Casey's claim, and it's pretty obvious they are town. Again, people should keep in mind that Moozer is a new mod. 
So... I'm not sure why you're opposed to claiming (you say "I think nobody shouldn't full claim today," which is a double negative when I think you meant only a single negative based on the rest of this line and the lack of your claim in it), or why you think that Moozer's being a new mod influences the veracity of yours and Casey's claim. I think he's town, too, but this is the time you should be claiming, regardless of the mod.

Earth
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I definitely did not intend for that double negative lol...I feel like claiming would put Town at a disadvantage
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@Earth
You dont want to claim.

You dont want anyone else to claim.

You dont want to lynch casey.

We are not lynching Savant.

So, what are we suppoosed to do?

You said your role is non-confirmable, so scum isnt gonna target you.
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@JoeBob
Savant to me is scum read because his role is a BIT too similar to mine, very similar.
It's probably worth outing your role tbh (doctor is not a counter claim to this) but if  your role prevents you from dying immediately I would say thats probably a counter. 
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@AustinL0926
I'd honestly prefer not to lynch Savant today, and not just because he hasn't made it to D2 once in his life. In the last game he was really transparent as scum (so much so that I caught him by the start of page 4). If the themesplit theory pans out and he is actually scum, he's going to slip up sooner or later.

In particular, that readlist of his feels pretty naturally constructed - I can say that as scum, faking genuine reads is something I really struggle with and I don't see that kind of forced or awkward logic there.

I do kind of town read him as well tbh. Though if joebob can CC him I think that information should come out. Could end up FOSing joebob more on it but either way, its a stone left unturned 
whiteflame
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@Earth
I definitely did not intend for that double negative lol...I feel like claiming would put Town at a disadvantage
I think BK is indicating what I'd like to hear from you at this point.

Let's assume you're not going to claim the unconfirmable role you have, which will lead many to think you should be the target of the lynch.

Necessarily, you think you should not be the target of the lynch. You don't want anyone else to claim based on your previous post.

So, who do you think should be lynched at this point and why?


Lunatic
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@whiteflame
As for reads, I’ll provide my thoughts at this point.

As I see it, at least right now, I’ve got problems with pursuing any of the four Champions. We would have to assume that they were given as fake claims for me to believe that either Chris or BK are scum. Chris claimed too early for that to just be a shoot from the hip fake claim, and BK knew before he claimed his character (he was second of the four to do so, if I’m seeing this correctly) that the other two were taken. I don’t buy that he’s that ballsy, either, and based on how he’s softclaiming his role, I’m solidly against a lynch on him or efforts to get a role claim right now.

Earth is the only one I’m slightly off about because he claimed so late, as well as claiming to be one of the six rather late (though two people claimed to not be one of those six after him, so it’s still pretty ballsy even if it was nonspecific). I’m willing to revisit my reads on these three later, but for anyone who is keeping score, if we assume Moozer gave scum fake claims, the only realistic way two people within this group could be scum is if he gave out two as real claims and two as fake claims. I don’t buy it. I’d sooner buy that Link and Zelda are fake claims.

Speaking of whom, JoeBob and Barney. I’d say I’m pretty null on both. JoeBob says he’s confirmable, so I’ll at least give him the chance to confirm himself. Barney, like me, says he’s semi-confirmable, probably meaning he has to be tracked or his target watched to get a result (that’s what I meant for mine). In any case, these are lynches I’d consider for DP2, but not now. I don’t think scum would make the choice to claim two closely linked characters unless they got them both as fake claims, and even then, I find it hard to believe they’d put themselves in the position to be taken down together.

That leaves three. Luna is the most townread player based on his claim because it’s a role that can be verified this DP. That’s enough for me to write him off as a target unless he somehow fails to do so. That leaves Austin and Savant. I don’t know what the confirmable role is that Austin has, but it’s more than we’re getting from Savant with the Bleeder role, which just barely makes sense and will almost certainly not be confirmed (scum have no reason to target him given that he’s not a PR of consequence), not to mention it functions as a justification for his surviving multiple NPs.

Also, Savant’s reads are consistent with what he has been saying, but they don’t make a lot of sense to me. Chris’s role was in the last setup Moozer made, so it should at least be a plausible role to have in this game. I would absolutely understand if he sussed the claim in that game, but given the plausible CC on the claim, the only way this makes sense is if scum received fake claims including both character and role. It’s possible, but pretty unlikely, that Moozer would hand two of this particular set of four over to town, hand one or more as fake claims over to scum, and give them role claims to boot that mirror claims from last game. That’s what we’d have to assume to believe that Chris used a fake claim, as well as BK, Earth or me receiving a fake claim from that same pool.

I don’t think Moozer would go directly from not offering any fake claims to offering two fake claims that other claims suggest are real (seriously, two of the four Champions when the other two must be town?) and provide them along with at least one role from his previous game to make it plausible, but I guess if we assume that all this is true, I can see how it might have ended up this way. I just don’t buy that Chris’s relative absence and BK’s focus on theme makes them more likely suspects.

And yes, I know I’m focusing on claims more than behavior. For the time being, though, that’s where my thoughts are at.
I like this post, and in general agree with a lot of your thoughts here. 
Earth
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@whiteflame
So, who do you think should be lynched at this point and why?
Buddy, I have no clue lol. I got no idea what Moozer gave mafia.
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@Barney
I believe it's a mistake to assume too little from our host.

Yes, there were problems with the setup of last game... But that gave him opportunities to receive advice and do better this game.

Your not wrong... But I still dont remember anyone advising him about giving mafia fake claims. Or I could have missed it. 
Earth
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In terms of fake claims and all that.