- There is no strong argument for Atheism. Not many beliefs out there are logically less cogent than believing Everything comes from Nothing & every thing has a cause for its existence except everything.
Ultimately, both theist and non-theist have to accept either infinite existence or magical creation.Infinite existence does not require a GOD.And magical creation requires an infinite magician.Neither of which is metaphysically or epistemologically definitive.
Nonetheless, theistic hypotheses are recent concepts, relative to evolved species intellect. Wherein the inevitable assumption was that an evolved intellectual specimen is the infinite magician.Which of course is not epistemologically definitive. (See above)And in short, simply implies that thinking man must have created thinking man.Whimsically negating any of thinking mans subsequent scientific and epistemological achievements.
All in all not a particularly strong argument.So, the other guy who is not prepared to accept atheistic assumptions out of hand, realises that although inevitable, the MAN GOD hypothesis is not epistemologically sound.Such is the argument.If an argument at all.
That said, I would suggest that the ongoing debate tells us what we need to know.Which is, that we don't know the answer to the ultimate question.Which is by far the best argument for the non-theist.
Even Jesus could not prove he was God.
God is not a man.
Even Jesus could not prove he was God.- He wasn't. God =/= man. God is a necessary being, therefore can not be contingent. Claiming God is man is saying God is not God, which is a contraction.
The Christians didn’t need proof that Jesus was God. Jesus said “I am.” At his trial and that was exactly what God said to Moses.
- So, you drop everything else Jesus (pbuh) did & said: in praying to God, calling "my God", that only the Father knows the Hour & he doesn't, to not call him good for only God is good... etc & hold on to the two words "I am" mentioned in the Gospel of John, allegedly written by someone 60 years after Jesus (pbuh)'s death in a language other than John's tongue -Greek- by an author nobody really knows who he is, found in a manuscript dated 300 years after Jesus (pbuh)'s death; which btw is said by others in that same book... & INSIST this "I am" is the true unequivocal declaration of Jesus (pbuh) that he is God Himself in the flesh, as metaphysically impossible as that is. OK!
Who Did Jesus Claim To Be?Examining what Jesus said about Himself.Jesus asked His disciples, “Who do you say I am?” The impact of His life begs the same question to you today—who do you say Jesus is? But perhaps the answer resides in what Jesus said about Himself. There is plenty of evidence of Christ’s divinity in Scripture, such as His miracles, but let’s zero in on what Jesus claimed about Himself:
He claimed that He was Lord of the Sabbath with the authority over it (Mark 2:23-28).
He took the divine name “I AM” for Himself (John 8:58, from Exodus 3:14).
He said that the way to the Father is through Him (Matthew 11:27, John 14:1-7).
He made Himself equal with God (John 5:18).
He claimed that whoever saw Him saw the Father (John 14:9).
When He was given the opportunity to correct people treating Him as if He were God, He didn’t (Matthew 26:63-65, John 19:7-10).
He claimed to have descended from heaven (John 3:13).
He claimed to have the power to raise himself from the dead (John 2:19, 10:17-18).
He claimed to be replacing the temple (John 2:19-21), which was the place known to house God’s presence and the forgiveness of sins.He claimed to share “glory” with God before the world existed (John 17:5).
He claimed to be sent from Heaven (John 6:38, John 4:34, John 3:13).
He claimed He would send His angels (Matthew 13:41, Luke 12:8-9).
He claimed the authority to forgive sins (Mark 2:5).
He assumed the authority to judge the world (Mark 14:62) and that one’s attitude toward Him would impact the end of their life (Matthew 10:32-33).He claimed to be perfectly sinless (John 8:46).He claimed that to know Him was to know God (John 8:19), to see Him was to see God (John 12:45), and to receive Him was to receive God (Mark 9:37).He claimed, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:29-33), which was not lost on Jewish listeners, who responded, “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (verse 33).In His teachings, He consistently demonstrated authority over the Law, or Torah, most notably in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7).
- Yeah, everything you said contradicts your claim. For such a central creed in Christianity, the Trinity, why didn't Jesus just say "I am a triune God" so consistently that no doubt is left, just like Tawhid is mentioned virtually every page in the Quran.
Unlike Jesus who performed miracles.
It is not the Qur'an itself that says the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not perform miracles.
So the verse does not deny that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ever showed them signs. The verse only says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not show the signs they specifically asked for.
Hi Yas, just waiting to see if you have something to say.If I don't here soon, I just will assume that you have run out of ideas.For sure, which is a distinction between a mind concept and actuality, and how the atheist or non-theist might also see things.
Obviously as a non-theist I can still appreciate the possibility of a metaphysical interventionist entity.
Whereas the traditional Abrahamic theist accepts a God not as a possibility, but as a metaphysical certainty.
Therein attributing said GOD with distinctly male human characteristics and qualities.
GOD created by man, in the image of man...And as a kid, I was subjected to theistic conditioning, wherein GOD was always portrayed and illustrated as such.
A despite what you say, I doubt that there are many Muslim kids who are not similarly inspired.
So, if GOD is not a man, then what is it?
I would suggest an indefinite metaphysical principle, which is an idea that I as a non-theist can happily run with and hypothesise about at length. Though in order to do so, I see absolutely no reason to join a theistic club and subject myself to a bizarrely unnecessary ritualistic routine, in reverence to an indefinite metaphysical uncertainty.
So:"Islam rejects characterising god in any human form or depicting HIM as.""HE created human beings.""Nothing is comparable to HIM."D'oh...Pronouns Homer, prounouns.
Unlike Jesus who performed miracles.- Perform miracles =/= God.It is not the Qur'an itself that says the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not perform miracles.- The beloved Prophet (pbuh) did perform miracles. Some of which reported independently by dozens of witnesses.So the verse does not deny that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ever showed them signs. The verse only says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not show the signs they specifically asked for.- Yes. And?
For sure, contingency is merely a life time of process.And why is a possibility necessarily a necessity?
And the rest is a latter day version of a previous version of......And as wordy as it maybe, it still doesn't prove a sausage.And a GOD maybe, regardless of my suggestions.And your suggestions too.Or maybe not.Such is the bottom line of all these GOD hypotheses.And "Instructing kids" is about the strength of it.
The prophet Mohammad was illiterate and could not read the Quran.
Possible and necessary are not synonymous.Necessity implies needPossibility says maybe.
So one could say that an interventionist creator maybe needed.Or maybe not.
So he didn’t know what was written in the Quran.
That's not what a necessary being is, by definition.
So he didn’t know what was written in the Quran.- Shila, again, is this a question or a objection? – The Quran is a Recitation, the word 'quran' itself literally means 'recitation'. The written form is a secondary medium. Even if there was no written version of the Quran it wouldn't change much, since just as many would still memorize the Quran as a recitation. & no, the beloved Prophet (pbuh) was indeed aware of what is written because the scribes would recite the transcribed passages back to him for confirmation, as reported in several narrations. He (pbuh) also had many scribes, as many as 42.
