Chess Mafia DP2

Author: AustinL0926

Posts

Read-only
Total: 435
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Barney
Austin messaged you about it already, (presumably) to prevent a mess wherein I accused you of not moving, when that item didn't count as an active move.
That would explain the message I received from him. Never mind about detailing the specific target you chose or how your movements would (or wouldn't) register. 
This is also why I said quite awhile ago that I'm 95% certain you're town. If I died, you not carrying out the NK could be found.
To be fair, as I said initially, my use of the chess engine meant that I could take no other action, so the NK would be off the table regardless


I'll wait for Austin's response to my PM before I give fuller thoughts on this claim.
Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,187
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
-->
@ILikePie5
Why do you insists on only claiming tomorrow? 

Why not now?

Seems like a pretty clear stalling tactic to me

Anyways, until you do claim, I would have everyone else at least take your claims with a grain of salt, and I would still like you to claim now, so I’m keeping my vote.

You might have a reason, but it seems like pretty clear stalling to me, and that is super counterproductive if your with us.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Moozer325
Why do you insists on only claiming tomorrow? 

Why not now?

Seems like a pretty clear stalling tactic to me
Because my role is confirmable tomorrow. I have no point lying to you because if I do, I am lynched tomorrow. So it makes no sense for me to full claim right now.

Anyways, until you do claim, I would have everyone else at least take your claims with a grain of salt, and I would still like you to claim now, so I’m keeping my vote.
I don’t plan on claiming today. There is no objective reason to because you can lynch me tomorrow.

You might have a reason, but it seems like pretty clear stalling to me, and that is super counterproductive if your with us.
I’m not stalling, there’s a reason why I’m not claiming, and it’s a valid reason. Not some bullshit reason like “bullying”
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@whiteflame
That would explain the message I received from him. Never mind about detailing the specific target you chose or how your movements would (or wouldn't) register. 
That it does, but it’s really convenient imo. Either way, it’s not affiliation indicative for Barney. We all know a town roleblocker is SOP. And a cop, with a motion detector, with a tracker.
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@ILikePie5
And who did you target for a roleblock and why?
You actually. You were key to mislynching JoeBob. If you have a complex role like he and I, then I would expect hesitation when he full claimed early something so unexpected by normal game standards.

Even you should realize that killing town is scummy.

And yes, for your confirmation I will target someone else tonight (have to spell that out for everyone else. If you are scum, then NKing me and saying you were RBed would be a nice way to buy time).
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@ILikePie5
And a cop, with a motion detector, with a tracker.
An inventor is not the same as a cop; most likely it was only a single use of that power. And the tracker was a particularly weak variant.

But you're committed to killing towns investigators...
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Barney
You actually. You were key to mislynching JoeBob. If you have a complex role like he and I, then I would expect hesitation when he full claimed early something so unexpected by normal game standards.

Even you should realize that killing town is scummy.
Thats fine. Valid reason. My role is complex, just not in the sense that JoeBob’s was. His utility made no sense, which is objectively true.

And yes, for your confirmation I will target someone else tonight (have to spell that out for everyone else. If you are scum, then NKing me and saying you were RBed would be a nice way to buy time).
Target who you think is scum. Assuming you’re not lynched. I don’t believe your claim one bit 
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Barney
An inventor is not the same as a cop; most likely it was only a single use of that power. And the tracker was a particularly weak variant.
A.) How do you know he’s an inventor
B.) Even if it was, it’s not an active action

But you're committed to killing towns investigators...

Lol. You’re gonna laugh tomorrow when I confirm my tole.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
So, I'll be blunt: I'm not voting Barney unless something dramatic changes. When Austin sent me that PM detailing how my investigation worked (after the fact), I assumed it was because someone targeted me. It's possible that the person who did that targeted me with an RB, that's literally on the list of actions he said would not affect mine. What was also on the list, and what I left off just in case it came up, was Motion Detector, the role that Barney just claimed.

Also, I'll note that the way Austin framed it to me was peculiar. He initially said that it doesn't "count as an active action." Note that he didn't say that the action cannot be prevented (as the Protector role was described) or that it cannot be redirected. Those came afterward. He specifically said that it's not "an active action" first. That suggests a focus on movement rather than one on the use of a specific role to intercede in or otherwise affect mine.

If Austin gets back to me with distinct information, I might change my mind, and I'm still considering other ways to interpret this. This, however:

Either way, it’s not affiliation indicative for Barney. We all know a town roleblocker is SOP. And a cop, with a motion detector, with a tracker.
is not currently one of them. I don't really agree that a town RB is obviously SOP, especially when the role is paired with an investigative role that he would also have to out. I also don't think that scum would actively claim an RB role when there are plenty of other options on the table. I also don't agree that that's overdoing it on the investigative front. We all agreed the Flipped Tracker is low utility. The 1X Cop role granted to someone else via Earth, despite the benefits of it being impossible to RB or redirect, could have just as easily gone to scum and been used against town, so it's got a substantial caveat. Having a Motion Detector in town, which I agree with Barney is a weak informational role, is not at all unbalanced given that information, especially when we know that everyone who has claimed so far and both flips yield dual roles. More informational roles are kind of a given.

What I find harder to believe is that Austin would actively facilitate scum like this by sending me that information after the night actions played out. It's not the best that it came out after the beginning of DP2 to begin with, but it lines up with Barney's telling of events. Maybe Austin would do this, actively affording scum an alibi for their actions that just so happens to include a fake claim that Barney actively used. Right now, I don't buy it.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Vader
So, my target changes. I'd like to give Pie the opportunity to prove himself next DP, which limits my choices to Luna and Vader. Luna at least has a character claim. Vader doesn't. I'd like at least a character claim from him.

VTL Vader
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@whiteflame
What I find harder to believe is that Austin would actively facilitate scum like this by sending me that information after the night actions played out. It's not the best that it came out after the beginning of DP2 to begin with, but it lines up with Barney's telling of events. Maybe Austin would do this, actively affording scum an alibi for their actions that just so happens to include a fake claim that Barney actively used. Right now, I don't buy it.
If I was scum and my role blocker on you didn’t work, I’d be furious. Either way, I want to hear from Lunatic and Earth on this matter
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Earth
@Lunatic
Thoughts on Barney’s claims and actions?

AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
VOTECOUNT:

Barney (1/4): Pie
Pie (1/4): Moozer
Vader (1/4): whiteflame


Two roads diverged in a yellow wood...


whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
If I was scum and my role blocker on you didn’t work, I’d be furious. Either way, I want to hear from Lunatic and Earth on this matter
As would I. There is some possibility that Barney tried to RB me, got pissed that it didn't work, talked with Austin and got him to send me these details to explain it. Possible, but unlikely. I don't think scum would then push for Austin to send me a message like that. I certainly don't see Barney then outing himself as having the RB. Maybe he's pulling an incredible gambit, but I don't buy it based on the information we have.

ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@whiteflame
As would I. There is some possibility that Barney tried to RB me, got pissed that it didn't work, talked with Austin and got him to send me these details to explain it. Possible, but unlikely. I don't think scum would then push for Austin to send me a message like that. I certainly don't see Barney then outing himself as having the RB. Maybe he's pulling an incredible gambit, but I don't buy it based on the information we have.
I think it’s more that Austin fucked up and then created this whole Active Action bs to keep the game running. But the that’s just speculation 
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
I think it’s more that Austin fucked up and then created this whole Active Action bs to keep the game running. But the that’s just speculation 
Understood. It was clearly an omission that is consequential for figuring out whether Barney is lying about his role, but so far, the evidence suggests that he's more likely town than scum.
Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,187
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
No offense pie, but I’m calling bullshit on that. You may be right about having a complicated role, but it just seems to ridiculous, and you make no sense. Anyone who wants t vote with me can, but this is mostly just me voting with my conscience, even though I wont get anywhere.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Moozer325
No offense pie, but I’m calling bullshit on that. You may be right about having a complicated role, but it just seems to ridiculous, and you make no sense. Anyone who wants t vote with me can, but this is mostly just me voting with my conscience, even though I wont get anywhere.
Look, I'm not going to call you out on sussing Pie at this stage - I think you have some decent reason to do it - but this whole "voting with [your] conscience" bit isn't particularly helpful. If you honestly believe Pie is worth pursuing for a claim at this stage (he has stated that he will fully confirm himself next DP, so he's guaranteed to be under scrutiny at that point), then you should argue why other people should be on him, too.

Personally, I think you should be recognizing at this point that there are two scum left in the game. If you believe Pie is one of them or at least want to eliminate him as a pick, I respect that. Who do you think his partner is, and if you don't know, then who else do you want information from?

ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Moozer325
No offense pie, but I’m calling bullshit on that. You may be right about having a complicated role, but it just seems to ridiculous, and you make no sense. Anyone who wants t vote with me can, but this is mostly just me voting with my conscience, even though I wont get anywhere.
I like the renewed vigor. Reminds me a little of Jeb Bush. But Vader said the exact same thing as me. Is there a reason why you’re not pursuing him but pursuing me? 
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
The DP ends in about 31 hours.


Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,090
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
Am I voting anyone? Unvote in case. At any rate Barney's role makes sense in context of the game, so we can lynch one of my PoEs (Lunatic or Vader). Hopefully Pie isnt some janky lynchproof mafia or whatever that will kick in next DP. 
Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,187
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
I've been pretty scattered about my thoughts recently, so here it is all compiled:

Probably town: Whiteflame, Earth

Maybe town: Barney, Lunatic

In the Middle: Ilikepie5, Vader

Probably Scum: No one here yet

Vader: Pie made a good point about him doing the same thing about saying he can't confirm yet, so I would bet good money that at least one of them is scum.

IlikePie5: I've made my feelings known here

Barney: He's probably town, but I put him in maybe seeing as he took so long to confirm

Lunatic: Hasn't really proven himself yet, but hasn't done anything super sus

Whiteflame: they could just be a really good actor, but my gut says they're on our side, and the evidence backs that up too

Earth: Kinda wanted to put in maybe, but they haven't done anything to trigger suspicion yet, but still hasn't claimed, so they're on thin ice up there unless they claim soon.


whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Moozer325
Earth: Kinda wanted to put in maybe, but they haven't done anything to trigger suspicion yet, but still hasn't claimed, so they're on thin ice up there unless they claim soon.
I appreciate the reads. Just a note: Earth has effectively fully claimed. He gave his character, and I confirmed what he did, so we know his role even if he hasn’t stated it specifically. He’s also been copped innocent by me.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
I have commencement today so will be busy. Still want to hear from Lunatic 
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@whiteflame
Black pieces. Yes it’s a bit weird and that’s why I held off but seeing that JoeBob’s role was some form of a descriptor I feel a bit better. My role is also confirmable next DP and is one of the reasons I wanted to lynch JoeBob that I didn’t describe before 
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
Just got out of moving shit into my aunts and am about to be on the road back home soon. Gonna read a bit and see what is going on. I checked my activity pins first and saw people ask for char claim so I figured I’d get it
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
I am actually kind of thrown off right now. Maybe it’s just cuz I’m doing actual analysis more than just faking analysis like I was last DP but I am not a fan of Barney waiting to claim and then claiming a roleblock role. I feel like scum is between Pie and Moozer. I can go more in depth once I am home and tbh I’m kind of multitasking between talking to my mom and typing so maybe my analysis will change once I sit down and analyze the DP a bit more and see 
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
@Vader
Alright.

Right now, I’m not liking that the number of supposedly confirmable roles exceeds the number of people who could be town, particularly given Earth is basically confirmed town and Barney a pretty solid town lean based on his claim. Moozer claimed a confirmable role, and both you and Pie claim you’re confirmable. It’s doubly strange that so many of you claim to be confirmable, but only by DP3.

So that leaves Luna as the only person who hasn’t claimed a confirmable role. Guess he’s next. 

Unvote
VTL Luna

Unless anyone can think of a better way to go, I’m going to need that role claim at this point.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@whiteflame
Alright.

Right now, I’m not liking that the number of supposedly confirmable roles exceeds the number of people who could be town, particularly given Earth is basically confirmed town and Barney a pretty solid town lean based on his claim. Moozer claimed a confirmable role, and both you and Pie claim you’re confirmable. It’s doubly strange that so many of you claim to be confirmable, but only by DP3.

So that leaves Luna as the only person who hasn’t claimed a confirmable role. Guess he’s next. 

Unvote
VTL Luna

Unless anyone can think of a better way to go, I’m going to need that role claim at this point.
I would like for you to character claim at this point. Lunatic is town for me right now
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,825
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
As my character very clearly gives away my role and I can confirm myself (character, role and, most importantly, alignment), I would prefer not to.