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@Castin
Did Jesus lie about the prophets concerning ****him***?
The Real Mening of the Bible
Posts
Total:
176
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@zedvictor4
@Mall
Mall wrote @zedvictor4: If I were you, I'd start making neutral statements about the scripture.
And If I were you, Mall, I would start supporting claims made about the bible. Which is something that you have never managed to do.
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@RaymondSheen
You should go back and read what I wrote rather than simply guessing. I said you never proved they were the same. Now you have provided some evidence to support your claim. Secondly, you still haven't proved that Michael or Jesus was created. Calling them the same is one thing. Proving that Jesus was created is another. I will await your score on that level.
For the record, you will find that I have indicated on this debate forum that Jesus and Michael are most likely the same. I don't have an issue with that view particularly. The issue I have is in regard to an apparent creation. That is where it seems you need to sustain a reasonable argument. Not seen one yet.
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@RaymondSheen
Your beliefs are deistical.
I have no such beliefs Raymond.
If any beliefs at all.
One either knows something or one doesn't. (Within the parameters set by the human computer)
To speculate, often abstractly, is futile.
I simply run with and discuss ideas.
The DAVE principle is one idea,
But I can just as easily run with purposelessness and/or general ignorance.
From now on I will ditch the word GOD, in case it causes confusion.
No criticism intended.
It's nice to communicate with you.
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@Mall
You clearly haven't paid a lot of attention to my previous posts..
I reiterate:
Stephen instigated the BS comment.
I replied.
And then further explained to you that I would attribute the term bullshit and it's synonyms to the general GOD/DAVE hypothesis.
Scriptures may be based upon one such hypothesis, but are obviously real within the context of their naive human construction.
As such they come together to constitute a mythical account of people and ideas from times past.
None of which we have any chance of validating.
Therefore neither DAVE hypothesis nor mythical accounts have any chance of being proven to be accurate.
As such it would be a futile exercise to attempt to disprove the contents of scriptures that cannot be proven to be accurate.
I think that I am already fairly neutral...In that I nonetheless accept the DAVE hypothesis as being both a reasonable creation idea and also an inevitable phase of human intellectual evolution.
N.B. From now on I will refer to the general GOD hypothesis as the DAVE hypothesis.
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@zedvictor4
I'm asking you directly as you are your own intellectual individual.
Has the scriptures ever been proven false?
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@Stephen
Hey did Jesus lie when he basically said the old Testament was concerning him?
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@Mall
As I stated, scripture is mythical and therefore very little about scripture can be proven to be accurate. Therefore it is a futile exercise to attempt to prove scripture to be inaccurate.
So let me ask you a question.
Has any DAVE hypothesis ever been proven to be accurate?
DAVE is the bottom line.
In terms of precedence, if a hypothesis is put forward then it must firstly be proven to be accurate.
If it is proven to be accurate, then argument to the contrary is futile.
Nonetheless discussions such as we are having are a stimulating mental exercise.
So, you prove DAVE and we will take it from there.
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@Mall
Hey did Jesus lie when he basically said the old Testament was concerning him?
Show me the verses from the Old Testament that YOU CLAIM are prophesying about Jesus the Messiah King of the Jews some 800 years in the future?
You shouldn't find it too difficult. You haven't stopped repeating YOUR claim but have failed very single time to produce the slightest piece of evidence when asked to do so.
You simply don't have any, do you?
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@Stephen
Did Jesus lie when he basically said the old Testament was concerning him?
Yes or no. What are you scared of?
I got you trapped. That's why I haven't seen you answer this question.
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@zedvictor4
You are among the many that just ran from questions.
You guys are star athletes just grade A track team runners .
You guys are star athletes just grade A track team runners .
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@Mall
Did you quote where Jesus said that or are you expecting them to do the work for you and come to the same conclusions as you? Luke 24:27
To the writers of the Bible and the people who lived in the time of Jesus it was obvious that the Bible, almost in its entirety, is about Jesus, especially his relationship with mankind. That's what the OP said, especially the link in the OP which was copied in post #13. But the modern-day sceptics aren't like the apostles, having lived with the scriptures and being familiar with their history and teachings. The modern-day sceptics have been alive and familiar with apostate Christendom, televangelists and people whose gods are the traditions of men. From Socrates, Plato, Constantine, Dante, Milton, Darby, and other pagan philosophies.
The irony is that the teachings of those "great thinkers" is what the Church teaches while the real teachings of the Bible are more compatible to the modern thinking. I used to get frustrated with that. That both skeptics and the mislead religious don't know the real teachings of the Bible, but for some time now I have seen the wisdom in the way things have turned out, which is exactly the way the Bible foretold. And now I realize that I had been getting frustrated at what was happening even though I knew that the Bible itself said it would happen.
See? That sounds crazy to a sceptic.
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@RaymondSheen
No I said Jesus basically said that. He didn't say word for word like I did.
I gave these folks scriptures and you if applicable and them reject what is written.
Trying to put it on me. "You claimed this" or "you're claiming the bible " etc., etc.
Instead of being humbled to acknowledge their error after being corrected,the correction is just being resisted.
Then a simple yes or no question is being avoided. I guess if they don't know what I'm talking about or just don't know the answer, I'll guess they'll have to go to work for themselves with the scriptures I provided. Study to show yourself approved what you're talking about is without error.
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@Mall
No I said Jesus basically said that. He didn't say word for word like I did.
I understand that.
I gave these folks scriptures and you if applicable and them reject what is written.
The scriptures don't mean anything to them. You're taking an ideological approach, they are responding accordingly. They have their ideology and you have yours. It's a battle that will never be won. It's pointless. Even if God himself or the stones spoke to them about the truth they wouldn't listen. Ideologues are people who have taken an idea and made it a part of them and so if you try to alter or remove the idea it's as if you are doing that to a part of them and they will fight it to the death. This is true of believers and unbelievers alike.
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@Mall
Hey did Jesus lie when he basically said the old Testament was concerning him?Show me the verses from the Old Testament that YOU CLAIM are prophesying about Jesus the Messiah King of the Jews some 800 years in the future?You shouldn't find it too difficult. You haven't stopped repeating YOUR claim but have failed very single time to produce the slightest piece of evidence when asked to do so.You simply don't have any, do you?Did Jesus lie when he basically said the old Testament was concerning him?
So it is as I have said; you cannot support your claim.
What are you scared of?
Not you , or your baseless question, if that is what you believe.
I got you trapped. That's why I haven't seen you answer this question.
Nope. You have to support you claim. You haven't done so. You are just repeating the baseless interpretation of what you have been taught instead of reading the bible for yourself.
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@Mall
Have you ever answered a question?
Nonetheless, I reiterate:
A proposition that cannot be proven to be true, cannot be proven to be false.
Therefore attempting to disprove a hypothetical proposition if a futile exercise.
So try and answer this question.
Can you prove a GOD?
When you can, we can then go on to consider whether scripture has relative value or not.
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@zedvictor4
Yes I have answered "a" question.
Can I prove a God ,yes.
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@Stephen
Then answer the question or you yield.
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@RaymondSheen
I understand they reject scriptures. Even being an unbeliever, you can still see what's written plainly but still deny it. Just dishonest.
Running from simple questions to avoid exposing the error and giving an honest answer.
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@Mall
The Bible sceptic is the most literal of intepreters. If the so-called "Old Testament" doesn't say "Jesus" they aren't going to see Jesus there. Also, if you show them where "Old Testament" is a Latin mistranslation they aren't going to change their perception of the "Old and New Testaments." What does that dichotomy reveal?
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@RaymondSheen
That both skeptics and the mislead [ing] religious don't know the real teachings of the Bible,I have seen the wisdom in the way things have turned out, which is exactly the way the Bible foretold. And now I realize that I had been getting frustrated at what was happening even though I knew that the Bible itself said it would happen.
You should expand on the bold underlined above in a new thread.
If I am reading it right, its probably the most interesting comment you have made since you landed here Ray....
One could only Guess what they might make their God tell them next.
And in here lie the danger.
IM SO EMBARRASSED TO ASK BUTTTTT.
DO Bible's on my computer work EXACTLY the same as the paper ones.?
Just a quick yes or no.
( they do right. )
Dont make a friggen scene that i had to ask.
Look i just didn't know .
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@Stephen
You should expand on the bold underlined above in a new thread.If I am reading it right, its probably the most interesting comment you have made since you landed here Ray....
Okay, I can do that, but just because it is interesting doesn't mean anyone would want to hear it. Just out of curiosity what do you think I was getting at in the emboldened portion of my statement? I would rather hear what you think than have to tell you.
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@RaymondSheen
Intellectually dishonesty is revealed and has been.
I'm taking you mean skeptic.
These people are so focused on looking for a name somewhere neglecting that the person tied to that name has spoken up for himself asserting himself.
I don't have to claim anything here or make a claim or assert , but they tell me, prove your claim, prove your claim.
They tell me my question is baseless without explanation. Probably knowing that when they answer the question, it's an automatic refutation debunking them telling me to prove a claim I don't even have to make.
I'm just telling them what is written. I gave the scriptures old and new testament . You gave the scriptures. I gave old and new because the scripture is not broken.
So of course one is not going to be without the other. If they knew that scripture, they'd already know the old testament is a shadow of things to come taught by the new testament .
Then they never make the erroneous statement of the old testament not touching on Jesus Christ.
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@RaymondSheen
That both skeptics and the mislead [ing] religious don't know the real teachings of the Bible, I have seen the wisdom in the way things have turned out, which is exactly the way the Bible foretold. And now I realize that I had been getting frustrated at what was happening even though I knew that the Bible itself said it would happen.You should expand on the bold underlined above in a new thread.If I am reading it right, its probably the most interesting comment you have made since you landed here Ray....Okay, I can do that, but just because it is interesting doesn't mean anyone would want to hear it.
They can take it or leave it, can't they?. I believe it may be of interest to me, and that is good enough for me, Ray.
Just out of curiosity what do you think I was getting at in the emboldened portion of my statement? I would rather hear what you think than have to tell you.
That sounds like a - "but before I do" - stalling statement.
Regardless, I was thinking along the lines of Matthew 24:3-31 & maybe parts of Revelation? If I have read it right?
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@Mall
So, you unequivocally prove GOD.
And then I will have no doubts.
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@RaymondSheen
That both skeptics and the mislead [ing] religious don't know the real teachings of the Bible, I have seen the wisdom in the way things have turned out, which is exactly the way the Bible foretold. And now I realize that I had been getting frustrated at what was happening even though I knew that the Bible itself said it would happen.You should expand on the bold underlined above in a new thread.If I am reading it right, its probably the most interesting comment you have made since you landed here Ray....Just out of curiosity what do you think I was getting at in the emboldened portion of my statement? I would rather hear what you think than have to tell you.That sounds like a - "but before I do" - stalling statement.Regardless, I was thinking along the lines of Matthew 24:3-31 & maybe parts of Revelation? If I have read it right?Post # 5 That, Stephen, is what the emboldened text was about. The love of the greater number will cool off, the Bible foretold it because it was obvious that would happen.
So in actual fact is all your wisdom concerning "the way that things have turned out" amounts to is that you realised the bible states that there will be a "cooling off period" and it took you a post of a billion words on another thread to explain this!! on another thread titled FAITH!!! HERE>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/11069-faith?page=1&post_number=5
FFS !!! You absolute boring tit!
No wonder people fall asleep and then fall out of windows to their death after listening to your absolute nauseating shite, just as Eutychus did after listing to Paul bore everyone silly with his long preaching.
Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
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@zedvictor4
I can prove a God .
I'm a god, you're a god, an atheist himself is a god. Jesus basically says in their laws we're gods if not mistaken.
Check out my debate about proving god, I laid it all forward.