The Heroes of Olympus Mafia DP3

Author: ILikePie5

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whiteflame
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@WyIted
I am hyper posting because I will be AFK for a very long period of time. I am ready to commit to Vader here. But those I'm the scum pool Austin and barney should ideally vote first.
I don't see a problem with that. That being said, I would like to have at least a little more discussion this DP, though not tonight. I'm going to be headed off shortly myself. It's fine if you're absent for a while, just reconvene tomorrow.

Vader
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Out of respect for the mods wishes, I am not gonna insta solve this game and copy and paste my exact PM to get me modkilled. I asked him a few questions about it but said I'd be banned if I did that. Oh well. Would've solved the game right then and there but I like playing mafia.

Hasn't responded to my question about about whiteflame giving things to scum just uyet
Vader
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I still think BK is town, but I will say that Pie just informed me in the PM that if a Mad Investigator gave a role to a scum, they would be able to use it
whiteflame
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@Vader
Out of respect for the mods wishes, I am not gonna insta solve this game and copy and paste my exact PM to get me modkilled. I asked him a few questions about it but said I'd be banned if I did that. Oh well. Would've solved the game right then and there but I like playing mafia.
Nice trolling.
Vader
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@whiteflame
Not even a troll. If I copy and pasted my DM he said I'd be modkilled on the spot. That would give town a 3v2 advantage and confirm my town and give us essentially a LYLO situation. Asked the precussions and he said I'd be banned from games. It honestly was smart and was considering doing the gambit but I'd rather play in his games
whiteflame
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@Vader
I still think BK is town, but I will say that Pie just informed me in the PM that if a Mad Investigator gave a role to a scum, they would be able to use it
I mean... yes? The fact that he used an item doesn't make him town on its face. Not something I think you'd need to ask him.
whiteflame
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@Vader
Not even a troll. If I copy and pasted my DM he said I'd be modkilled on the spot. That would give town a 3v2 advantage and confirm my town and give us essentially a LYLO situation. Asked the precussions and he said I'd be banned from games. It honestly was smart and was considering doing the gambit but I'd rather play in his games
It's a troll. If you expect anyone to buy that you gamed this out with Pie, you're sorely mistaken, but good luck I guess.

And now I'm actually taking off for the night. Not gong to get any sleep if I keep my focus on here.
Vader
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@whiteflame
I know. I just wanted to confirm that nothing would happen if you gave it to him and he was scum, like you'd die. I've seen some role modifications like that or some thing like that. Never bad to have clarity
WyIted
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@Vader
Not even a troll. If I copy and pasted my DM he said I'd be modkilled on the spot. That would give town a 3v2 advantage and confirm my town and give us essentially a LYLO situation. Asked the precussions and he said I'd be banned from games. It honestly was smart and was considering doing the gambit but I'd rather play in his games
After this game mafia will likely be on pause for like 6 months and pie will forget. Just do it if this is true. 

WyIted
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It looks bad for Vader but this is very high effort. I also don't really respect his intelligence enough s cum to put himself in towns shoes and then think getting modkilled would be a good strategy but it would. 

I will day I have no problem personally as mod putting my thumb on the scales and ending the dp over an intentional modkill but since pie is above that it is something Vader should do if he is town. 
WyIted
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By the way in PM pie said that if barney was doctor and visited ascetic he would be informed his action failed. Barney also has essentially the same role as earth. I think he is the safest lynch. Also it is very high risk for Austin to fake an ascetic claim knowing if anyone targeted him he is auto.atically ousted. So maybe lynch barney and than Vader. I don't know
Vader
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@WyIted
Nah cuz now Pie just said the DP ends automatically lol and so it's just a mislynch. Fucking beat me at my own game
Vader
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@WyIted
He clarified it after he stated it too like 15 min later. I was just too busy working on an excel project so yea the play wouldn't be good unless there's some healer that can target the NK but I doubt it so it's a pointless strategy. Thought I broke the game for a second but I guess not
Vader
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@WyIted
After this game mafia will likely be on pause for like 6 months and pie will forget. Just do it if this is true. 
Fair point. Would be good karma for the Naruto game but he outsmarted me right as when I thought that. Damn
Barney
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I don't have time to go through this whole thread right now. Traveling and working remotely.

Light skimming, I see my name a lot, but only whiteflame and Wylted have tagged me. Thanks guys.

Vader seems to think I'm the most town, but five minutes later I'm the most scum. Odd. 

I didn't get any messages last night.

I'll review the rest when I can.
Best.Korea
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@WyIted
How do you feel about Vader? 
This is very difficult, but I think we are supposed to later lynch the least fitting role out of the 3 I mentioned before.

So Vader, Barney, and Austin - at this point I am very certain there are 2 scums there.

I dont buy that you are scum who turned innocent, so I pretty much will play the safest option and conclude that you are town.

So I think scum team is probably Vader and Barney, or if only one of them is scum, then Austin would have to be scum.

But I dont see Austin as scum, since he seems very calm where as a scum he is usually acting much differently and far from calm.

Still, I am in favor of no lynch this dp, but I think we have clear scum team and they made a clear mistake of working together openly from the start, and I somehow dont see why would Vader if he is town follow Barney, and also, why would Barney if he is town follow Vader.

Usually, buddying is only supposed to happen with confirmed town player, but in this case, buddying happened between two players who neither was confirmed town at any point, and had nothing in common, and their buddying only makes sense if they are both scum.

So I am certain Vader is the most logical lynch, then Barney, as I find 1x Cop to be something like a fake claim and it is kinda counter-claimed by my item ability, so I really dont see why would there be two 1x Cop abilities in the game.
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@Best.Korea
I agree mostly except Barney's claim seems unreasonable for scum. He was tracking roles so he shouldn't have claimed he visited an ascetic when he didn't.  You think he would have updated his chart and made a different claim as scum. He also could have said he got action failed if he was scum and Austin was town.  He did also say his attention this game was compromised and he essentially has the same role as earth in practical terms. 

I keep talking myself out of it but pretty sure the scum team is Vader barney as well and I think denying GP a win is also funny so am down to lynch today. I assume the solidifies me you and whiteflame as willing to vote Vader. We just have to find the 4th member of town either Austin or barney and get them to agree to the lynch. 
WyIted
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@Barney
Vader seems to think I'm the most town, but five minutes later I'm the most scum. Odd
It is odd. You mind placing your vote on him. 
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@AustinL0926
We need every member of town to agree on this lynch or at least one scum to come along. So it would be helpful to get your vote here and we can confirm your role at least tomorrow
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@Best.Korea
If we no lynch and then lynch successfully twice GP wins so we get more glory if we just treat this like LYLO instead of having to share the winners crown
whiteflame
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Want to at least post my reads before I get into the workday.

Right now, my strongest townread is BK. I wouldn't have sent him an item if I didn't read him that way by the end of the first DP, and that Millionaire claim sold it. I know Vader was making the case that he might be scum pretending to use an item to get a given result that makes him look townie, and while I might buy that in other circumstances, I don't believe that's likely here. BK could have chosen literally any role gained from the item. He specifically outed that he was the 1X Cop, a role that functions as a partial CC to Vader's claim. So if I didn't believe Vader was scum (and I don't think I have to detail why any more than I already have), I might still question this. But I don't see how Vader's scum partner benefits from doing this. I buy it, so he's pretty solid town to me.

WyIted is next. Since I trust the Cop was used on him, it's hard not to see him as innocent at this point, though manipulated results are possible (e.g. Godfather, Lawyer, Tailor). Vader suggested Electrician could be in the game, though if I recall correctly, that would send back a failed result, not an innocent result. All that being said, I'm not convinced that this is what happened. It would be very strange for Pie to insert a role on the scum side to detail with a 1X Cop obtainable only by selecting the correct item from the Mad Inventor and sending it to a town member. I thought maybe such a role might be in place to deal with the Emissary, but that description says: "Each night, I will give you reliable information towards the identity of one town-aligned player in the game." That doesn't seem like it's something necessarily impacted by any of those roles, since the information isn't the result of an investigation. All that is a long way of saying that I don't buy that he somehow changed the result of his investigation. It's possible, but it's a remote possibility.

My strongest scumread is Vader. If anyone wants me to provide my succinct reason as to why, I can summarize, but I've spent enough time on him these last two DPs and I'd like to put the focus elsewhere.

That just leaves Barney and Austin. The former has come off largely null over most of the game, the latter has had more of a townie bent behaviorally. One of them is probably lying given that Barney claims he used his BG on Austin and didn't say anything about it failing. I say "probably" because it's important to note that, while investigative roles will definitely report a "failed" result if their action is somehow impeded, that is not necessarily true for all non-investigative roles. I heard this last game from Austin in the scum chat - all Barney might get is a "confirmed." So anyone who's claiming he's obviously scum because he claimed he used his role on Austin is jumping the gun a bit.

That being said, I still think the second scum is more likely to be Barney. The Ascetic claim is definitely a little odd, but not necessarily scummy. The BG claim, meanwhile, comes off a little strange. It's the most common role claim beyond Vader's Cop that's currently on the table (note everyone else has a pretty uncommon or even rare role) and it's repetitive with the Lightning Rod role (again, kind of like Vader's Cop with the Emissary). Also, just thought of this as I'm writing, but how would a Lightning Rod and BG interact? If someone was targeted by both and was NK'd, which would die? I feel like Pie would not want to introduce that kind of headache into this game as a factor. And much as the lack of protective roles might initially put me into the camp of expecting more, it does seem like this game is more slanted toward giving town more information (Emissary, Dreamer) rather than protecting individual members, and I suspect the variety of roles my items impart are meant to cover for some balance issues with scum.

Beyond that, I think there has just been some odd behavioral choices from Barney. Like I said in response to his claim, it was not hard to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that his Harry Potter claim was obviously Percy Jackson. He even put a lightning bolt after his name, which made me think of The Lightning Thief, and I've never even read that book. He treats this as a gambit to bait out an NK, though I don't know how that worked. Did he think that scum would believe that he was actually Harry Potter and believe he had some crazy role that had to be eliminated? Is that the "lie" that "worked" when "Earth protected" him? Because it doesn't make sense to me, and it comes off as a means of trying to make himself look townie by trying to make us believe that he was the likeliest target for the NK. Vader does seem to be bussing him pretty hard this DP, but that isn't changing my read.

So, yeah, I'm down to lynch Vader this DP and, after the flip, consider whether we're going ahead with Barney. I'm good with having Austin and Barney vote first and then having known town execute the hammer, as WyIted suggested last night.
Vader
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Pretty ridiculous that we are gonna lynch this DP over waiting til the next one and not VTNL'ing. 
Vader
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Towns too far gone to win this game. Whiteflame is going to just keep tunneling this meta and whether he realizes that he should probably make the optimal town play and VTNL or be anti-town and vote on a MYLO when there was no reports, counter-reports, etc, on his top target. 


whiteflame
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@Vader
Yeah, I’m not going to continue to address this claim that I’m tunneling you or that the VTNL is somehow optimal play despite a rather consistent set of reads between players. You haven’t justified either claim as accurate.

Beyond that, this idea that “reports, counter-reports, etc.” are necessary to come to the conclusion that your play is clearly scummy is just baffling. You know as well as any of us that reports can be manipulated. You know that there have been, in point of fact, no reports to go off of except yours and BK’s, which both yielded innocent results. So what do you want us to do in the absence of guilty results? Sit on our hands? You pretend that just waiting one more DP will somehow give us a much more solid foundation despite having now three largely solid town members for scum to pick between. There’s no benefit to delay, no reason to twiddle our thumbs because we lack that last confirmation that we’re probably never going to get given WyIted’s stymied role. You’re just playing for time at this point which gives me all the more reason to pursue your lynch this DP.
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@whiteflame
If you think that confidently I am scum on no reports, a counterclaim, or anything that would disprove my status as town, to the point you would risk LOSING the game if I flip town, then I mean, hey, we all have our off days as scum. I'm not sure how many of the items you have left to give. There is a lot of information that one NP can have that you would likely throw away.

But if you think that confidently, it can be your justification to give why you made one optimal lynch this entire game and missed on your 2 scum reads by a long shot
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^ with one of your lynches that was spearheaded by you losing the game for town. I would like to see that endgame and Pie's thoughts on that
whiteflame
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@Vader
Sincerely trying to parse these last two posts for anything meaningful. We risk losing the game regardless of who we lynch, so I don't see your point there.

I don't know what you assume will prove your status at this point. Where is this "lot of information" going to come from during this NP, exactly? Do you think that leaving two scum alive who have consistently impeded WyIted's efforts at getting a Dreamer result will somehow yield fruit? Do you think that I magically have another item available that will give exactly the same role or provide a similar investigative role? Are you banking on that as the chief means of getting information?

If this loses us the game (and I have no reason to believe it will), then yes, I'd love to see Pie's thoughts on how you played this. I'd be very interested in what he has to say about your play these last two DPs. You're treating me as though I'm accusing an obvious townie, but if you were town, I think you'd be acknowledging a lot of the issues with your play by now. This kind of tactic - deny, deflect, doubt - is just what scum would do as a last desperate hope to get a wagon off of them. 

Barney
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@Vader
Barney was also pushing people like Earth, who we now know as town, into a deeper hole for their reads. He did the same with JoeBob from what I recall. 
Not what happened. Earth was even less active than I am right now  with no reason given. While being clear I was going to place my end vote on GP, I placed a vote on Earth and tagged him, to apply light pressure to encourage participation. While he didn’t give a lot, he at least gave something, at which point I lifted the vote.

But of course you’re going to pretend to have never done anything like that…

On that note, I have to brush my teeth and head out the door.
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Unless there is some role which will give us additional information next dp, there is no point in no lynch.

I guess if lynch targets dont change, then it makes no difference if we lynch them this dp or next dp. The only difference will be that obvious town player dies, as scum wont kill town players who are suspected or non-confirmed, but at this point scum will target most obvious town player, so I assume they will target whiteflame.

As for not giving GP the win, yes, I can see that we can deny him of win if we lynch now.

So unless someone provides an information about what more will we get if we do a no lynch, maybe some useful role that will provide information next dp, then it really makes no difference if lynch happens now or next dp.
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Also, since we are at 4 - 2,

If we no lynch, we will be at 3 - 2, and scum will most likely take out whiteflame to try to gain influence over remaining town players and maybe even make a mislynch, so if we do a no lynch, we will just be operating with less town power, which might make us vunerable as it only takes 1 town player to be tricked for scum to win if we do no lynch, and there will be less town players next dp.