Poll: 56% of people say Biden wants to jail Trump in order to win an election.

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ADreamOfLiberty
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@HistoryBuff
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
The critical difference is that biden believed he was allowed to have them since they were his own personal notes. He didn't know having them was wrong. Once he found out it was, he gave them back. 
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?


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@ADreamOfLiberty
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
the report was quite long, so I don't know what part of the document you are talking about. Please provide a reference to where exactly he said it, or stop repeating it. 

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@ADreamOfLiberty
Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say it's ok to take classified docs as long as "they" don't ask for them....
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@HistoryBuff

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retainedand disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a privatecitizen.
Executive summary, second paragraph, page 1.


In a recorded conversation on February 16, 2017, at Mr. Biden's rental homein Virginia, Mr. Biden told Mark Zwonitzer that Mr. Biden had "just found all the classified stuff downstairs."818
He knew it was downstairs. He knew it was classified. He was finding it to share it with his ghost writer.

Nowhere does Hur bring up the possibility "nobody asked for them back" as a defense to "willful retention"
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Executive summary, second paragraph, page 1.
some basic reading comprehension would help you out here. I asked you to show me where he engaged in "willful retention" of the documents. IE that he knew he wasn't allowed to have them and he kept them anyway. You showed me a quote where he said he willingly showed documents to someone. IE, he showed someone his own hand written notes that he thought he was allowed to have. 

do you see the issue? That isn't willful retention of the documents. 

Nowhere does Hur bring up the possibility "nobody asked for them back" as a defense to "willful retention"
you haven't even shown willful retention, and yet you are describing defense to it lol. Biden thought he was allowed to keep them. For it to be willful retention, he has to have known that he wasn't allowed. Hur could not find evidence that would show that biden did this. Therefore he did not press any charges.


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@ADreamOfLiberty
Notebooks containing classified information. FBI agents recovered from
unlocked drawers in the office and basement den of Mr. Biden's Delaware home a set
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of notebooks he used as vice president. Evidence shows that he knew the notebooks
contained classified information. Mr. Biden wrote down obviously sensitive
information discussed during intelligence briefings with President Obama and
meetings in the White House Situation Room about matters of national security and
military and foreign policy. And while reading his notebook entries aloud during
meetings with his ghostwriter, Mr. Biden sometimes skipped over presumptively
classified material and warned his ghostwriter the entries might be classified, but at
least three times Mr. Biden read from classified entries aloud to his ghostwriter
nearly verbatim.
Some evidence also suggests Mr. Biden knew he could not keep classified
handwritten notes at home after leaving office. Mr. Biden, who had decades of
experience with classified information, was deeply familiar with the measures taken
to safeguard classified information and the need for those measures to prevent harm
to national security. Asked about reports that former President Trump had kept
classified documents at his own home, Mr. Biden wondered how "anyone could be that
irresponsible" and voiced concern about "[w]hat data was in there that may
compromise sources and methods." \Vhile vice president, he kept his notebooks in a
White House safe for a time, in contrast with his decision after leaving office to keep
them at home in unlocked drawers.
When Mr. Biden left office, he also knew his staff decided to store notecards
containing his classified notes in a Secure Compartmented Information Facility
(SCIF) at the National Archives, and he knew his notebooks contained the same type
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of classified information. As he told his ghostwriter during a recorded interview, the
same staff who arranged to secure his classified notecards "didn't even know" he had
retained possession of his classified notebooks. Twice in 2017, Mr. Biden visited the
National Archives SCIF to review his classified notecards while writing his book. Yet
he kept his notebooks, which also contained classified information, in unlocked
drawers at home. He had strong motivations to do so and to ignore the rules for
properly handling the classified information in his notebooks. He consulted the
notebooks liberally during hours of discussions with his ghostwriter and viewed them
as highly private and valued possessions with which he was unwilling to part.
\Ve do not, however, believe this evidence would meet the government's burden
at trial~particularly the requirement to prove that Mr. Biden intended to do
something the law forbids. Consistent with statements Mr. Biden made during our
interview of him and arguments made by the White House Counsel and Mr. Biden's
personal counsel, we expect Mr. Biden's defense at trial would be that he thought his
notebooks were his personal property and he was allowed to take them home, even if
they contained classified information. During our interview of him, Mr. Biden was
emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president
before me has done the exact same thing," that is, kept handwritten classified
materials after leaving office. Ho also cited the diaries that President Reagan kept in
his private home after leaving office, noting that they included classified information.
Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017,
he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home. In a recorded
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conversation with his ghostwriter in April 2017, Mr. Biden explained that, despite
his staffs views to the contrary, he did not think he was required to turn in his
notecards to the National Archives-where they were stored in a SCIF-and he had
not wanted to do so. At trial, he would argue plausibly that he thought the same about
his notebooks.
If this is what Mr. Biden thought, we believe he was mistaken about what the
law permits, but this view finds some support in historical practice. The clearest
example is President Reagan, who left the White House in 1989 with eight years'
worth of handwritten diaries, which he appears to have kept at his California home
even though they contained Top Secret information. During criminal litigation
involving a former Reagan administration official in 1989 and 1990, the Department
ofJustice stated in public court filings that the "currently classified" diaries were Mr.
Reagan's "personal records." Yet we know of no steps the Department or other
agencies took to investigate Mr. Reagan for mishandling classified information or to
retrieve or secure his diaries. Most jurors would likely find evidence of this precedent
and Mr. Biden's claimed reliance on it, which we expect would be admitted at trial,
to be compelling evidence that Mr. Biden did not act willfully.
As with the marked classified documents, because the evidence is not sufficient
to convict Mr. Biden for willfully retaining the notebooks, we decline prosecution.
We also considered whether Mr. Biden willfully disclosed national defense
information to his ghostwriter by reading aloud certain classified notebook passages
to the ghostwriter nearly verbatim on at least three occasions. Mr. Biden should have
9
known that by reading his unfiltered notes about classified meetings in the Situation
Room, he risked sharing classified information with his ghostwriter. But the evidence
does not show that when Mr. Biden shared the specific passages with his ghostwriter,
Mr. Biden knew the passages were classified and intended to share classified
information. Mr. Biden's lapses in attention and vigilance demonstrate why former
officials should not keep classified materials unsecured at home and read them aloud
to others, but jurors could well conclude that Mr. Biden's actions were unintentional.
We therefore decline to charge Mr. Biden for disclosure of these passages to his
ghostwriter.

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@HistoryBuff
some basic reading comprehension would help you out here.
Projection.


[HistoryBuff] For it to be willful retention, he has to have known that he wasn't allowed. Hur could not find evidence that would show that biden did this.

[Hur] Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen.

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@Greyparrot
Historybuff can't handle one sentence GP, it's just cruel to post all that.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Projection.
lol whatever you say. I can read that his findings were that he could not prove that Joe biden broke any laws. He might have personally believed joe biden retained the documents illegally, but he found insufficient evidence to support that claim. That is why he didn't charge him. The only reason he chose to describe it that way is that he was a republican operative that wanted to spin "there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with anything" in a way that slandered Biden. 

And ultimately, all of this side conversation is just a diversion. Biden gave volunteered the information he had the documents. He gave them all back willingly and complied with investigation. Trump didn't do anything of that. All of trump's charges stem from him refusing to comply when ordered to give the documents back and then obstructing the investigation. No charges like that are possible for biden because he gave them all back as soon as it was revealed he had them. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Mr. Biden was
emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president
before me has done the exact same thing," that is, kept handwritten classified
materials after leaving office. Ho also cited the diaries that President Reagan kept in
his private home after leaving office, noting that they included classified information.
Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017,
he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home. 

Even Biden thinks Trump is innocent, lol.

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@Greyparrot
Mr. Biden was
emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president
before me has done the exact same thing," that is, kept handwritten classified
materials after leaving office. Ho also cited the diaries that President Reagan kept in
his private home after leaving office, noting that they included classified information.
Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017,
he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home. 

Even Biden thinks Trump is innocent, lol.
Yes, but that won't stop him from trying to use it to subvert democracy. They aren't too keen on this "objective justice" and "moral principle" stuff.
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@Greyparrot
The classified doc cases are nearly identical.
Right. The guy who realizes he had an unpaid item in his cart and walks back in the store to return it, and the guy who stuffs items down his pants, gets to the door, gets stopped, and runs off to his getaway car and peels off...

Are nearly identical. Because both walked out of the store with unpaid items.
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@Double_R
Nice fanfiction
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@Double_R

I wonder how many documents showing  the location of US nuclear weapons Melania has on her iPhone?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@FLRW
I wonder how many pics of you she has? Actually I think I know the answer: 0
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Tru Dat!
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"Biden wants to jail Trump in order to win an election." Well duh ya'll just now picking up on that? LOL
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@Greyparrot
Nice fanfiction
And yet fits your equivocation perfectly.
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@FLRW
I wonder how many documents showing  the location of US nuclear weapons Melania has on her iPhone?
Who knows? I wonder how many documents were hauled onto a plane and flown to Bedminster before the FBI could get them back which are still at large?
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@HistoryBuff
"President Trump has been indicted on a total of 91 counts by supporters of JoeBiden and his Justice Department. If convicted of these charges, do you think thatJoe Biden wants to stop President Trump from winning the election by puttinghim in jail?"

So the question was, if he is convicted of crimes, do you think biden would want him put in jail.
I also love how the question begins by bootstrapping onto it at the outset the premise that Trump's legal woes are the product of Joe Biden.

The blatant partisan hackery of this question couldn't be any more obvious.
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@Double_R
And yet fits your equivocation perfectly.
Nope. Biden broke the law and would still be breaking the law if he had not been caught.

Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president
before me has done the exact same thing," that is, kept handwritten classified
materials after leaving office. Ho also cited the diaries that President Reagan kept in
his private home after leaving office, noting that they included classified information.
Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017,
he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home. 


Former security officials and analysts say it's actually not uncommon for such documents to show up in the personal files of former presidents and vice presidents, especially given the explosion of confidential, secret and top-secret information these days that is kept in both electronic and paper form. The problem is exacerbated by funding and resource shortages at the National Archives and Records Administration, which is responsible for safeguarding all former White House documents and declassifying some for eventual access by the American public under the Presidential Records Act of 1978.

"So, like every other president, I take things out," Trump said. "And, in my case, I took it out pretty much in a hurry. But people packed it up, and we left. And I had clothing in there, I had all sorts of personal items."

Yep. Equal.

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@ADreamOfLiberty

SleepyCreepy ADOl.    OMG, I'm Republican Presidential Material.
Greyparrot
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@FLRW
Reported.
FLRW
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@Greyparrot

I wonder how many pics of you she has? Actually I think I know the answer: 0
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@FLRW
As expected, because I never post fictional fantasies about her in a politics forum.
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@Greyparrot
As expected, because I never post fictional fantasies about her in a politics forum.
I didnt know that you were gay.

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@Best.Korea
Me either.
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@Greyparrot
And yet fits your equivocation perfectly.
Nope. Biden broke the law and would still be breaking the law if he had not been caught.
He wasn't caught genius. He returned the documents as soon as he discovered them when no one was even looking for them.

Yep. Equal.
Again, and has been pointed out repeatedly to you, the crimes Trump is being charged for and the reason these charges are serious is because he blatantly lied to federal investigators and did everything he could to destroy the evidence of his guilt. Nothing Biden did came close to that in any way.

If you hand waive away all of the differences and focus only on the similarities what's left will be similarities. What you're doing here is neither clever nor opague. The shoplifter analogy is spot on.
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@Double_R
Mr. Biden was emphatic, declaring that his notebooks are "my property" and that "every president
before me has done the exact same thing," that is, kept handwritten classified
materials after leaving office. Ho also cited the diaries that President Reagan kept in
his private home after leaving office, noting that they included classified information.
Contemporaneous evidence suggests that when Mr. Biden left office in 2017,
he believed he was allowed to keep the notebooks in his home. 

Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Again, and has been pointed out repeatedly to you, the crimes Trump is being charged for and the reason these charges are serious is because he blatantly lied to federal investigators and did everything he could to destroy the evidence of his guilt. Nothing Biden did came close to that in any way.

If you hand waive away all of the differences and focus only on the similarities what's left will be similarities. What you're doing here is neither clever nor opague. The shoplifter analogy is spot on.