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@ADreamOfLiberty
Wow you actually believe he didn't do any of them.
Poll: 56% of people say Biden wants to jail Trump in order to win an election.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
In the real question Biden is the one stopping Trump.the question is badly written.I'll take that a concession.
what concession? You interpret the question to mean one thing, when it can very easily be interpreted to mean something else. The fact the pollster wrote it this way (as well as the fact that he is a hack right wing pollster) shows it was designed to give people like you a talking point based on nothing. If you ask questions like this, the results are useless.
Wow you actually believe he didn't do any of them.
I believe everyone commits on average two crimes a week.
I really believe that over half the government would be in prison if the meticulous standards and novel interpretations of law being used against Trump were applied equally.
There is a mountain of evidence for this, not the least being that Biden was accused of sexual assault just like DJT and Biden "stole" and shared classified documents just as DJT is being accused of doing.
These facts cannot be evaded. It isn't necessary to prove unequal application of the law, but the fact that they could not find a crime or a liability for which Biden isn't just as 'guilty' is the utmost pinnacle of pathetic desperation.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
if the meticulous standards and novel interpretations of law being used against Trump were applied equally.
lol I wasn't aware that "don't steal classified documents and refuse to return them" and "don't try to illegally overthrow the results of an election" were meticulous standards. It's kind of the absolute bare minimum.
Biden "stole" and shared classified documents just as DJT is being accused of doing.
nope. He legally took the classified documents. He legally stored them. He then forgot about them. when he became aware of their presence, he immediately returned them and cooperated will all investations into the matter (the investigation was done by republicans).
Trump took the documents. Whether he was allowed is a little bit of a grey area, but that's not what he's charged with anyway. The national archive spent a year and half telling trump he had documents he wasn't allowed to have and asking him to give them back. He refused. He lied, saying he didn't have them. Then he gave some back, said that was all of them when he was still hiding a bunch more. He refused to co-operate with investigations. He ultimately had to have his home raided by the FBI to get the documents back. He ordered employees to destroy evidence of his crimes to hide what he had done (he ordered security footage destroyed to hide the fact he was hiding the documents). Comparing the two things is laughably weak.
These facts cannot be evaded. It isn't necessary to prove unequal application of the law, but the fact that they could not find a crime or a liability for which Biden isn't just as 'guilty' is the utmost pinnacle of pathetic desperation.
a republican investigated and found that biden didn't break the law. I described why above. Actually read about what trump did for the year and a half between him leaving office and the FBI raid. It's really easy to see all the differences between what biden did and what trump did.
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@HistoryBuff
if the meticulous standards and novel interpretations of law being used against Trump were applied equally.lol I wasn't aware that "don't steal classified documents and refuse to return them" and "don't try to illegally overthrow the results of an election" were meticulous standards. It's kind of the absolute bare minimum.
There is a lot you don't know, and it's really your own fault. I previously challenged you to demonstrate people going to prison for the Hawaii alternate electors and you failed so it's not like it's the first time you've been exposed to clues.
He legally took the classified documents. He legally stored them. He then forgot about them.
Very legal and all.
Trump took the documents. Whether he was allowed is a little bit of a grey area
It wasn't so grey when every other president and executive lackey did it.
but that's not what he's charged with anyway
Yes it is.
The national archive spent a year and half telling trump he had documents he wasn't allowed to have and asking him to give them back.
They don't get to decide. They weren't even allowed to ask Clinton what documents he had.
He refused to co-operate with investigations.
Biden not only lied to investigators but to the entire world when he said he did not share classified information with his ghostwriter.
a republican investigated and found that biden didn't break the law.
Said that he didn't think a jury would convict so he wasn't charging. Very different, also clearly corrupt.
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@HistoryBuff
Trump is going to lose.
He probably will eventually lose many of the cases, but the criminal convictions won't come before November.
The optics for rushing the cases through before November and without the normal due process every other president enjoyed have resulted in the current polling against Biden's DOJ.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I previously challenged you to demonstrate people going to prison for the Hawaii alternate electors and you failed so it's not like it's the first time you've been exposed to clues.
because i instead proved how the 2 scenarios were different. In hawaii, different counts of the votes came up with different outcomes. There was legitimate and proven doubt about the outcome. Trump was unable to come up with a single shred of evidence that there was fraud that affected the outcome. His own investigators told him there wasn't. So the 2 events are very different.
He legally took the classified documents. He legally stored them. He then forgot about them.Very legal and all.
I'm not sure what your point is. There is nothing illegal about that.
Trump took the documents. Whether he was allowed is a little bit of a grey areaIt wasn't so grey when every other president and executive lackey did it.
Trump took the documents after he had already lost the election. He was days, if not hours, away from no longer being president and therefore not being allowed to have the documents anymore. At the moment he packed the documents he was allowed to have them. At the moment they arrived in Mar-a-lago, he was not allowed to have them. That is not the same as any other case I am aware of.
but that's not what he's charged with anywayYes it is.
no, his charges are about illegally possessing the documents, and refusing to give them back. Basically, everything he did after he left office. Not what he did while in office.
The national archive spent a year and half telling trump he had documents he wasn't allowed to have and asking him to give them back.They don't get to decide. They weren't even allowed to ask Clinton what documents he had.
they very much are allowed to decide. That is what their job is.
Biden not only lied to investigators but to the entire world when he said he did not share classified information with his ghostwriter.
please show evidence he lied to the republican investigator tasked with investigating his documents.
Said that he didn't think a jury would convict so he wasn't charging. Very different, also clearly corrupt.
that was one thing he said he considered. he also said "We conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter,". He found no evidence that biden had committed a crime. Right wing news outlets chose to focus on specific quotes to try and paint is a a corrupt cover up.
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@Greyparrot
He probably will eventually lose many of the cases, but the criminal convictions won't come before November.
I meant he will lose the election. He obviously lose the criminal cases. He committed the crimes very publicly and there is mountains of evidence.
The optics for rushing the cases through before November and without due process have resulted in the current polling against Biden's DOJ.
I don't think they are rushing the cases through. It shouldn't take years to bring his cases to trial. The reason it is taking so long is that trump is doing everything he can to delay them.
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@HistoryBuff
It was never put to trial. Alternate electors isn't a criminal conspiracy.There was legitimate and proven doubt about the outcome.
The end.
I won't derail the thread by rehashing all the points you've lost on before. Go back to the threads where you lost before and resume.
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@HistoryBuff
He found no evidence that biden had committed a crime.
Is this Hur's words or your fiction?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Biden's practices “present serious risks to national security”
-Hur
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It was never put to trial. Alternate electors isn't a criminal conspiracy.
on it's own? no. In Hawaii they had a legitimately hard situation. The vote was so close that different counts gave different outcomes. no one could legitimately say they knew what the outcome was. That is not true of 2020. There was absolutely no evidence the outcome was illegitimate. Trump had many chances to argue in court and provide proof of fraud and he provided none. And now, 4 years later, there still is no evidence of fraud. The situation is entirely different.
The end.
if only it had been. Trump did LOADS of illegal shit. he tried to convince election officials to "find" enough votes for him to be declared the winner. He tried to pressure his VP to illegally prevent the electoral college votes from being counted. There's a long list.
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@Greyparrot
Is this Hur's words or your fiction?
The primary thing he had taken was his own handwritten notes. Hur's findings was that he legitimately believed that he was allowed to take them since he had written them. He provided an example where another president (I forget which one) had done the same thing. If he believed that he was allowed to take them because he had written them, then it would be impossible to prove that he knowingly did anything illegal. And if he didn't know, it wasn't illegal.
Trump, by comparison, was told over and over and over that what he was doing was illegal and refused to comply.
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@HistoryBuff
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
― H.L. Mencken,1920
― H.L. Mencken,1920
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@FLRW
Thank God Democracy was officially perfected in 2020 when Biden was elected.
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@Greyparrot
Tru-dat !
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@HistoryBuff
Refusal to cooperate is a separate crime. The classified doc cases are nearly identical.
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@HistoryBuff
You realize that all this apologizing for the corrupt actions of the establishment Democrats is the main reason why people like Bernie and RFK are never allowed to sit at the front of the bus....
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@Greyparrot
Separate purported crime.Refusal to cooperate is a separate crime.
Refusal to cooperate with the government is not inherently a crime in a free nation.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I was trying to be overly generous.
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@Greyparrot
Refusal to cooperate is a separate crime. The classified doc cases are nearly identical.
nope. In neither case are they charged with taking the documents. The charges against trump is all based on his refusal to give them back and what he did with them after he wasn't allowed to have them.
As soon as biden realized they were there, he gave them back and fully cooperated with the investigation. All of trump's charges are based on stuff Biden never did.
You realize that all this apologizing for the corrupt actions of the establishment Democrats is the main reason why people like Bernie and RFK are never allowed to sit at the front of the bus....
lol what? What corrupt actions are you even talking about? You haven't established any corruption from democrats in this discussion. I'm not saying there isn't any, but you haven't brought any up.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Refusal to cooperate with the government is not inherently a crime in a free nation.
actually it is. If you lie to investigators that is a crime. If you refuse to return stuff you don't have any right to have, that is a crime too.
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@HistoryBuff
The charges against trump is all based on his refusal to give them back and what he did with them after he wasn't allowed to have them.
False:
Trump is charged separately for each of 32 documents under the Espionage Act.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Refusal to cooperate with the government is not inherently a crime in a free nation.
Well, sure, but I thought there is no government in a free nation? Looks like you anarchists cant get your story straight.
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@Best.Korea
Looks like you can't get your thought-destroying oversimplified cartoon labels straight.
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@Greyparrot
I already posted the charging document for him twice. He refuses to absorb any facts he was not told to believe by his handlers.
The charges against trump is all based on his refusal to give them back and what he did with them after he wasn't allowed to have them.False:Trump is charged separately for each of 32 documents under the Espionage Act.
lol, you repeated what I said, then said false. those 32 charges under the espionage act are for willfully retaining the documents. IE after he was told he wasn't allowed to have them and that he needed to give them back, he "willfully retained them". Which is exactly what I said. He wasn't charged for taking the documents. He was charged for not giving them back. If trump had just given the documents back when he was told he had to, he never would have been charged.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Looks like you can't get your thought-destroying oversimplified cartoon labels straight
Well, I have only seen your ideas in cartoons.
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@HistoryBuff
IE after he was told he wasn't allowed to have them and that he needed to give them back, he "willfully retained them".
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If that is what "willful retention" means then why did Hur say Biden willfully retained classified documents?
The critical difference is that biden believed he was allowed to have them since they were his own personal notes. He didn't know having them was wrong. Once he found out it was, he gave them back.
Trump was told having the documents was wrong. He refused to give them back. He hid them. He lied about having them. And they weren't his own personal notes. There were random classified documents like invasion plans for foreign countries.