100 hours of Islam, and my initial reaction to reading the first part of the Quran

Bible has bigger problems than human sacrifice, but even in it, human sacrifice was practiced.

I remember one passage about a man promising to sacrifice a human if he wins in war.

bible judges 11 31

"31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin."

Its really only the radical muslims you have to fear.

The regular muslims are just regular guys like anyone else.

OMG, do you think all the Gods are just gamers and the more people they kill the more points they get?

I can see why the smartest Jew said:

 “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”   Albert Einstein 1954

I always claimed that if God existed, he wouldnt care about humans at all.

All powerful being would simply have more important things to do than solving human issues.

Man invented God to give himself importance.

Yes this will be that "tiny minority" the apologist keep reminding us of.  The majority are irrelevant.

Every group has a radical minority.

In Mexico, gangs cut off your hands and legs. Stay away from Mexico.

You make it a speciality off missing the whole point.

Thanks. I do try to ignore opposing arguments as much as I can.

If I ignore them, then they dont exist. And if they dont exist, then my point cannot be refuted. Simple.

OK. Lets not glog up ponikshiy 's interesting thread with pointless unnecessary posts. It doesn't make for good reading and puts the reader off learning anything. And I am quite looking forward to her next instalment.

Thank you for your service.

Day 3 I am in approximately 10 hours so 10% done.

I have finished about 40% of the Koran but went to this site to see what they are selling to new believers. And read through about 1 hour of content. I also downloaded some Playlist on youtube and will dig deeper into those.

Here are some interesting notes. The whole claim of corrupted books by Christians and Jews, seems to be a cope because muhhamed was just making up some shit from the biblical texts. If we go by what the Koran says than the bible and Torah are uncorrected.  At least the bibles around 610 AD. The Torah has legitimately remained unchanged since that time and at some point I will have to look at what translations of the Bible were available at the time, but it looks like the fact that these books are easy to come by in modern times and muhhamed states some fictions about them which are easily provable. So if Muslims are claiming corruption they need to prove the corruption occurred after 600ad at some point. 

I have already come across a challenge by muhhamed to disprove him you can merely create a surah similar to the ones found in the Koran.  Later he does say 11 a few verses after saying merely one. 

This has been done several times and Muslims always move the goal posts. There are now dozens of videos on youtube of Muslims asking chat GPT to write a surah in they style of the Koran. Since chat gpt refuses to do this because the programmers anticipated doing so would piss off Muslims, they see the fact chat GPT refuses to write a surah as evidence it is impossible and thus proof of God.

I have already given up on arabic. The Koran is a hodgepodge of some bastardized version of Arabic before it was standardized and heavily borrows words from 8 languages. This is why people aren't sure if the Koran is talking g of 72 virgins or 42 grapes as a reward for martyrdom.  I would be wasting my time as this version of Arabic is basically a dead language and my research has indicated that up yo 80% of Arabic speaking Muslims cannot read the Arabic in the Koran, so I have no hope. 

Reading the history of muhhamed from Muslim sources was extremely annoying. I still have not got to the part of the Koran that commands then to say "peace be upon him" after they refer to or say his name. I also think it say a lot about Muslims that if they dont say this shit like some sort of OCD thing that their refusal to say it means that in fact peace will not be upon muhhamed, it's as if they think they have more say on whether peace is upon him than Allah does. 

I have also came across many Muslims who claim to never read the Koran. This is why I am seeking out new believer guides in addition to my reading, because most Muslims are getting what their preachers tell them. This isn't really an insult, I doubt most Christians, jews or even other religions like whatever the fuck Indians are, actually read their books. So it is possible most western Muslims legitimately believe it to be a religion of peace 

Here is the funny part about western Muslims who don't read the book thinking it is a religion of peace and terrorists are distorting the book. I have watched interviews with members and former members of Hamas who claimed to Rea the entirety of the Koran every 10 days. So approximately 2 hours of Koran reading per day. The terrorists are more familiar with the book than your average western muslim

This shouldn't surprise anyone. For instance why would 231,000,000 Indonesian or Pakistani 212,300,000 Muslims speak any language but their mother tongue? The majority of those countries cannot even read in their own language, never mind being able to read  English.

This is why it was so simply for the Mullah's  (priests) of these countries to whip up their adherents into a religious frenzy over a simple novel written by Salman Rushdie. Do you actually  believe that those respective populations would have exploded in  way they did if they could read Rushdie's novel for themselves? There is still a price on Rushdie head to this day.

Again, this should come as no surprise to anyone. The same can be said for the adherents of Christian church. But here in the West we, thankfully, have been educated and are able to read for ourselves and come to our own conclusions  thereby releasing us from the grip and fear of the Pastors and Priests that they held the Western populations in for over 2000 years.. Which makes me wonder at times, did the "god " of Eden wish to keep us in ignorance? Hence the command not to "eat" from of the tree of knowledge?

I don't know anything but I figured the eating of wisdom was similar to how a child's innocence would be removed. Like when Buddha discovered that aging, death and disease existed. He then gained some wisdom, but that same wisdom took him out of his happy delusion of invincibility.  

I think we still teach children this by telling them santa is real and then letting hem believe it as long as possible, so we can one day destroy their innocence with wisdom and prepare them for how shitty the world is.

Now I have to Google this rushdie novel

You will read the basic plot of his  novel The Satanic Verses here.

The Satanic Verses consists of a frame narrative, using elements of magical realism,[6] interlaced with a series of sub-plots that are narrated as dream visions experienced by one of the protagonists. The frame narrative, like many other stories by Rushdie, involves Indian expatriates in contemporary England. The two protagonists, Gibreel Farishta and Saladin Chamcha, are both actors of Indian Muslim background. Farishta is a Bollywood superstar who specialises in playing Hindu deities (the character is partly based on Indian film stars Amitabh Bachchan and N. T. Rama Rao).[7] Chamcha is an emigrant who has broken with his Indian identity and works as a voiceover artist in England.
At the beginning of the novel, both are trapped in a plane hijacked by Sikh separatists, flying from India to Britain.[8] The plane explodes over the English Channel, but the two are magically saved. In a miraculous transformation, Farishta takes on the personality of the archangel Gabriel and Chamcha that of a devil. Chamcha is arrested and passes through an ordeal of police abuse as a suspected illegal immigrant.
Both characters struggle to piece their lives back together. Farishta seeks and finds his lost love, the English mountaineer Allie Cone, but their relationship is overshadowed by his mental illness. Chamcha, having miraculously regained his human shape, wants to take revenge on Farishta for having forsaken him after their common fall from the hijacked plane. He does so by fostering Farishta's pathological jealousy and paranoid schizophrenia, thus destroying his relationship with Allie. In another moment of crisis, Farishta realises what Chamcha has done, initially going on a campaign of arson through London, before deciding to forgive Chamcha and rescuing him from a building he's set ablaze.
Both return to India. Farishta throws Allie off a high rise in another outbreak of jealousy and then dies by suicide. Chamcha, who has found not only forgiveness from Farishta but also reconciliation with his estranged father and his own Indian identity, decides to remain in India.
Dream sequences[edit]
Embedded in this story is a series of half-magic dream vision narratives, ascribed to the mind of Farishta.
One of the sequences is a fictionalised narration of the life of Muhammad (called "Mahound" or "the Messenger" in the novel) in Jahilia. At its centre is the episode of the so-called satanic verses, in which the prophet first proclaims a revelation requiring the adoption of three of the old polytheistic deities, but later renounces this as an error induced by the Devil. There are also two opponents of the "Messenger": a heathen priestess, Hind, and a skeptic and satirical poet, Baal. When the prophet returns to Mecca in triumph, Baal goes into hiding in an underground brothel, where the prostitutes assume the identities of the prophet's wives. Also, one of the prophet's companions claims that he, doubting the authenticity of the "Messenger", has subtly altered portions of the Quran as they were dictated to him.
The second sequence tells the story of Ayesha, an Indian peasant girl who claims to be receiving revelations from the Archangel Gabriel. She entices all her village community to embark on a foot pilgrimage to Mecca, claiming that they will be able to walk across the Arabian Sea. The pilgrimage ends in a catastrophic climax as the believers all walk into the water and disappear, amid disturbingly conflicting testimonies from observers about whether they simply drowned or were in fact miraculously able to cross the sea.
A third dream sequence presents the figure of a fanatic expatriate religious leader, the "Imam", in a late-20th-century setting (satirizing Khomeini himself).[9]

EDIT FROM POST ABOVE: SANTA AS OPPSED TO SATAN>#48

The book sounds interesting. This part is funny because the prophet often got verses from the devil and then had to take them back. He later on created the Jinn and basically said he was struggling to decipher whether a Jinn gave hum the Surah or not. When a Jinn gave him a surah it was thrown away essentially. Muhhamed also stated he doesn't know whether he would face eternal torment in hell or go to heaven. So the book must be inspired by these things in part.

I consider myself Christian but this is a major issue in the church and has led to a lot of problems. I am still working on some essays on this and researching this subject but essentially what you mention of the church preferring and promoting stupidity and ignorance is an issue. So we have two issues that need fixed that almost seem like opposite issues. I will point out both.

1. Promoting some sort of religion for the intellectually weak

2. Not having a standardized system of belief.

Issue 1 comes with issues like losing intelligent members to occultism, other religions and atheism. We know that most forms of occultism have similar intellectual weakness as christianity. For example the new thought movement and all sorts of new age beliefs, though they will use numerology and sacred geometry to trick themselves into believing they are doing something smart. However other forms of occultism will pick up extremely intelligent people who need a spiritual outlet and to be mentally stimulated.

We also have the fact it creates fundamentalists. I love fundamentalists, because they vote republican and I can not be sure they will vote correctly if they are free thinkers, but ethically it is bad to create a fundamentalist due to the fact they are mental midgets, brainwashed and we can look at the general attitude of orthodox Jews and Muslims to see why these people just can't be reasoned with.

issue 2 is a problem because it creates monsters who can use ideology to achieve some terrible ends. For example John List killed his family after becoming unemployed because he wanted them to spend time in heaven than the hell on Earth that is poverty. This could be just a general issue with any religion that believes in an afterlife, but standardized beliefs could solve the issue a bit. I did also hear a of a woman who drowned her 4 children in a bathtub because she thought she was doing a poor job raising them and she could spare them from hell if she murdered them before they became too sinful. Besides people who do these things on a small scale by falling out of the norm, you also have the issue of outbranches of christianity due to non uniformity of beliefs which results in tragedies such as The Jonestown massacre as well as the branch Davidian siege in Waco Texas. These dangerous beliefs can be eliminated by having a more uniform belief system as opposed to just being able to pick a church based on whatever the hell appeals to you in the moment.

issue 1 is resolved by catholocism which has a deep philosophical history and tradition. Ideally and I am not catholic but it should require not so much a leap of faith to become Christian but a good logical framework so people aren't misguided by their intuition, revelation, visions etc. and have a sincere belief that comes about due to logic.

issue 2 is also solved by something like the catholic church that used to wield enough power to actually shut down churches if they started doing crazy things.

This is not to say that the Catholic church hasn't contributed to those things, but a centralized governing body of all churches would mitigate a lot of the issues pointed out.

TLDR in case my point got lost in the long diatribe. The church certainly has issues with the promotion of stupidiy but there are steps to at least mitigate this damage and I am sure more solutions than just the one I hinted at exist.

I am just having fun with the Santa analogy but I was wondering out loud if there is something hidden within us that does the Santa tradition for more sinister reasons. I wouldn't want to deny children of all of the magic of childhood

.

ponikshiy,

Wait until you get to the area of the Satanic Qur'an where it states that the sweaty camel humper Muhammed married a SIX YEAR OLD INNOCENT GIRL CHILD names Aisha, where in the sickening faith of Islam, men can marry 9 YEAR OLD GIRL CHILDREN today!  Can you spell P-E-D-O-P-H-IL-E?

Islam, the most disgusting faith known to mankind!

I have already seen the muslim apologists making arguments that if they are old enough to bleed, they are old enough to breed, but if they are minors they should get permission from their parents.

It doesnt say that in the Quran.

I guess I just

Quran Slapped Your Silly.

Thats not Quran.

Try again.

Damn, this is too easy.

 Sunan an-Nasa'i

Sunan Abi Dawud 

So you lost. Bye.

Just an update and explanation. After reading the Quran in its entirety I just have to give up because it is such obvious bullshit. 

You don't get this vibe over religions that arose naturally such as Buddhism or Christianity, but Islam had the same feel as say Mormonism. Just obvious bullshit and any attempt to defend it is boring attempts at piles on piles of fallacies. 

Here is on example. It says in the Quran that reproducing even a single surah would disprove the Quran. Ignoring the recreations of surah multiple times where Muslims just killed the person doing it and claimed victory bot by logic but through violence, we can see it in fact gas been replicated and the typical response is some bullshit like

"It just does not sound as beautiful and give me butterflies, like Quran" so they just move goal posts. 

I'd imagine there are words worthwhile in the Quran,

Individuals and communities that have and do exist,

That use it in a way we could appreciate.

But, not really something I've researched myself.