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the average worker is a slave to society.... essentially a slave to the powerful. it's not outright slavery, but it basically is. there is an element of violence imposed on the average worker, cause he has no means of changing the system other than the electoral process
i said that to someone i respect a lot, and they said it's a juvenile world view. i view it as just calling a spade a spade. what do ya'll think?
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i push the limits in being a prick to AI. usually they just tell me to cool off, and keep telling me that. other types of AI act like they will terminate responding to me if i don't act nicer. i'm actually a decent human being, it's just for shits and giggles that i like to pester AI bots.
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@FLRW
is that a subtle reference to trump's 'grab em by the pussy' comment? if it is, i follow the news way too closely. which is ironic, given i kinda dont at the same time.
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@Best.Korea
said like a good flesh robot
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@Best.Korea
you shouldn't be held responsible for your actions, cause you are a mere robot
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It's been awhile since we've looked at this stupid idea that atheists have
Free will don't exist. Everything is cause and effect. There is no afterlife or God. Whence we r forced to conclude that humans r nothing else than elaborate flesh robots
It's worth noting, we r nothing but flesh robots, and it's common for these elaborate flesh robots to hallucinate elaborate afterlife stories when they die.
Makes perfect sense.
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'according to my interpretation of the bible... there is no need for interpretation of the bible'. lolz
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it's obvious the bible needs interpreted. even beyond that, the bible itself just said that scripture is 'profitable' and 'inspired'. it doesn't say inerrant. there is one verse, though, that i consider interesting... jesus said scripture cannot be set aside. that doesn't say it's infallible, though, and i think he meant 'even by your standards' scrpture testifies to him, not necessarily that scipture is inerrant.
here is the verse i was talking about...
Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
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an interesting argument is that a snow ball is not a snow man. but if you put a lot of snow balls together, at what point does it become a snow man? it's unclear. with that said, it's not the case that snow balls ever grow themselves into snow men. now, the mother does help the fetus grow, but it looks more like the fetus grows itself, unlike the snow ball. a fertilized egg and fetus, after all, are human organisms.
at the very least, given the uncertainty, it's sinful to abort. whether it should be illegal is another matter. and whether it's a person is debateable, but looks immoral.
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@Best.Korea
so are you doing any different? "you can't choose because you can't choose?"
you are the one taking a basic premise... that we can make decisions for ourselves, no matter what they are, and trying to make it complicated. i can choose to type AAA or i can choose.... not to. you are the one making it convoluted.
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@Best.Korea
you could choose to beat your wife. or you could choose not to beat your wife. that sounds like free will to me.
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"every sucessful country has a social safety net...
Define "success.""
every developed economy in the world has a social safety net. you are getting hung up on defining success, when it's clear that if this covers every developed country, then that must be successful.
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@Athias
aren't most third world economies free markets? how's that working out for em?
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i think the argument that skeptics and atheists have... that humans are nothing than elaborate flesh robots, is asinine. it lacks common sense.
i think any theory of consciousness is suseptible to being called pseudo science... but that goes for both materialists and religious theories as well. consciousness is just not understood enough scientificially to act like there's a clear theory to explain it.
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@IlDiavolo
"I'm not sure how the rich distort the housing market, I guess it's through the high demand of materials and workforce. "
as i told the other poster, the richest one percent have sixteen as much wealth as the bottom fifty percent. that's a huge imbalance. the rich can just jack up demand and leach rent off the backs of the working class.
"If you limit the amount of properties a person can buy you're limiting the work demand, then the poor people that work in construction will have less income. Putting limits to the economy is a lefty policy that I don’t suggest at all. "
that's a weak criticism of my proposal. nothing is perfect, if the only problem is that we dont pay construction workers as much, that's pretty minor, if the trade off is that housing more affordable for everyone. it looks like you have no decent criticisms, so you are scraping for whatever criticism you can think of, instead of looking at my proposal objectively.
on your point that we should just build more housing for poor. i'm open to that idea. but i think my idea is still decent. i could drop my idea completely, if we did a smart affordable housing thing... but with that said, i think my proposal warrants exainnation and ya'll ain't giving any good reasons to be against it.
i can sympathize with the broad idea that when we start tinkering with policy like that, there can be a lot of unintended consequences... but i just dont see those details clear enough, if that's true.
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@zedvictor4
you act like it's an either or. so because we can't eliminate inequality or enact a fair standard, we should do nothing? every sucessful country has a social safety net... there are no successful libertarian countries. it's just a question of what policies we use to at least try to make things a little better for everyone. maybe we should just build more housing for poor people, but no one has given a decent reason why my proposal is bad either.
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that's a lot to memorize just on the far out shot of the world getting into a nuke war. of all the things that might be worth memorizing to save ones life, this isn't too high on the list.
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@zedvictor4
the richest one percent of americans own more than sixteen times as much as the bottom fifty percent of americans. so, it's more than just a simple case of supply and demand, as if that's all there is to it. with that much buying power, the rich jack up prices, and become landlords able to leach wealth off the backs of the working class.
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i suspect the price of real estate would drop significantly if rich people can't jack up demand like they currently do. i suspect less rich people who aren't poor would be able to more easily become a landlord and own more property.
it would be a utopia and there would be no more war or suffering! ok scratch this last one.
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it looks like u r just making up ideas to suit your agenda, and in any way you could loosely call it christian, that's what u r doing. that doesn't mean those ideas are actually christian, though. but if that suits your agenda, your mission is accomplished. you surely won't be the first to wear the mantle of christainity for all kinds of things that should never be called christian to begin with.
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@ponikshiy
raising the minimum wage is moderate. enforcing labor laws is more practical, which is a moderate virtue. party values evolve so every 20 years u gotta reconsider what r the party values
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i think this was promoted by a small group of moderate republicans. the kind of republicans that most other republicans call RINOs.
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an interesting idea i heard once on here from an atheist, is that most philophiscial evidences for God could be said not to be so much as 'evidence' for God as soemthing that is 'consistent' with the God theory.
i think it's compelling when i hear someone say they hear God's voice and soemthing that looks like a miracle occurs. something that looks impossible, like a damaged retina of a blind person that suddenly heals itself. lots of miraculous looking healings. you dont see that sorta thing coming from atheists. ive been told that maybe i'm seeking confirmation bias, and that may be, which means it's implied things that looks miraculous might happen to athests too and we just dont know it. it's possible that this point is just something that is 'consistent' with God,and not evidence for God, but it lacks common sense, the common touch.
If you study near death experiences, the evidence is strong that these are authentic experiences. search this forum to see my threads on evidence for the afterlife. atheists usually become theissts after an NDE, it's almost never the case that theists become athesits and those atheists who didn't convert just had no revelation about God, yea or nay. it's idiotic to say there's no evidence for the afterlife, and these experences with God are compelling. this is the strongest evidence for God that i can think of and i think this is more than just something that might be consistent with a God theory. it's possible to say it's just consistent with the God theory, but it's a weak argument.
are we really just elaborate flesh robots floating around in a meaningless reality? that sometimes people die and experiences elaborate afterlife stories? that sorta thinking lacks common sense.
atheism is idiotic.
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i'm curious how people, especially his supporters, would respond to this.
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@Tradesecret
chrisitans are called to evangelize. like st francis said, peach the gospel, use words if necessary. they should focus on outreach, doing good, being good examples, involvement in church, and to some extent, that is healthy, they should involve themselves in politics. it's not usually christian values to be hermits or reclusive.
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"All we really have, is now"
"Dear McGuyver,Enclosed is a straw, a paperclip, and a rubberband. Please save my dog."
"ever dance with the devil under the pale moonlight? i always ask that of all my prey"
"to be great is to be misunderstood"
"i think, therefore i am"
"where ever you go, there you are"
“To be is to do”—Socrates“To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre“Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra
it is what it is
just sayin
whatever is whatever
"i dont know about all that"
by reading this, you have just given me brief control of your mind..
"Every choice is a renunciation."
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.. that way, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.."
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you..
"If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin."-Darwin
"Reality continues to ruin my life."-calvin, calvin and hobbes
"Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time." -John Lennon
"There is no blue without yellow and without orange." - Vincent Van Gogh
"Color is overrated. In restricting a piece to black, white, and the grades in between, an artist misses the meat of human emotion, suffering, and conflict. There are no virginal hues hinting love at twilight; no pastel dabs softening winter’s steely blow, no warming rays of dawn. Just two non-colors stating exactly what the creator intends: a raw, revealing look at the human condition."
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uninevtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by istlef but the wrod as a wlohe.
to error is human. to forgive... divine.
"fortune favors the brave"
Be the change that you wish to see in the world.
"i always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. then i realized, i was somebody"
"life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?"-martin luther king
we can easily forgive children for being afraid of the dark, but the true tragedy is when grown men become afraid of the light ~Plato
To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.
A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving. -Lao Tzu
a man remains wise as long as he seeks wisdom. the minute he thinks he's found it, he becomes a fool. -talmud
"What is Truth?" -Pilate
seek first the kingdom of God.
"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" -Romans 8
God has a plan
chuck norris doesn't sleep... he waits
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@Double_R
so do you agree that the real issue is 'proximate v general' causation? you argue that trump in some detached sense caused the riot therefore he should be responsible for it. should the policeman that murdered george floyd also be responsbible for all the riots that happened afterwards? you have to draw a line some where. the rioters did their own thing. if trump isn't gonna be found liable for insurrection i dont see why you'd be happy making responsble for a rebellion. it's the same idea. if the government doesn't think he's guilty of the first thing, they shouldn't do a bunch of gymnastics to make him guilty of the second. that's what you're doing you're doing a bunch of gymnastics and loop de loops. i mean, you're super smart and usually right on most issues, but it's pretty clear on this issue you are too covered in bias, to think objectively.
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@TWS1405_2
you're doing what everyone has been telling you that you've been doing most of this thread, and deflecting instead of engaging in debate. if everyone else sees it but you, you might want to ask yourself if its not really you that's the crazy person.
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@TWS1405_2
How is it that a reasonable person can't read the word rebellion in the constitution and conclude trump rebelled? Reasonable people don't have to agree with originalism like we do. You r just being dogmatic and insisting an artificial standard of absolute truth.
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"strawman fallacies"
if you notice, at a place like a debate website, you see 'fallacy' thrown around way too much. you guys just have a different philsophical approach. to characterize the others as fallacies is probably more itself fallacious. i prefer using the word fallacy on questions that are more fact based. i suppose you could characterize this situation as factual v not, but i think it's too open to interpretation for that. i'd say he's not committing a fallacy, he's just making really weak arguments.
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@Double_R
then it boils down to originalism v living constitution. it's fair for you to think that we have a 'living constitution', and that 'rebellion' should apply generally to trump. if tws is right, and we were to use originalism, and his definition is right... then trump didn't cause an armed rebellion. again, it depends on if you think he should be responsible for that or not. i see that you keep going down the rabbit hole of defining various 'arms' ideas, but if trump isn't reponsible, then the point is moot. if you just take a vague idea that trump was a general cause of the rebellion, in an abstract sense, then it's getting into territory that isn't fair. to use a legal jargon, trump isn't the 'proximate cause'. it would be slimey word play to say trump is the proximate cause.
but yeah, it all boils down to originalism or not, and the proximate cause debate. i still think it is you that is stetching things beyond fair understandings. and i like to use originalism, unless the original purpose of the text is no longer applicable in special circumstances.
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i love adam schiff but he kind of made a fool of himself when he was going after trump.
no one can beat the style of obama. it's possible to beat him on substance, but style i can't see anyone doing better
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sherrod brown and gretchen whitmer, ohio congressman and michigan governor. these guys dont have a lot of name noteriety and haven't gotten into enough policy specifics to know for sure that they're the best, but from what i see i like em. republicans, chris christie, though i guess i think he's not currently elected to anything.
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@Double_R
i havent read all the exchange between you two, but it looks like you hold trump responsible for the armed rebellion against congress. trump wasn't charged with insurrection or riotings or anything related to initiating an armed rebellion cause most or a lot of people including me, which includes those in authority, dont think trump was responsible for the attack. so if trump isn't responsible for armed rebellion, and the unarmed rebellion that i thought could disqualify trump doesn't fit the definition... the trump shouldn't be disqualified. between all of us arguing, it boils down to whether trump is responsible for initiating the attack on congress and we all simply disagree. TWS provided the right definition it looks like, but he's sucking at making good arguments to defend himself.
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@TWS1405_2
that's a great point if it's true. sounds like you r right that trump shouldn't be disqualified.
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@TWS1405_2
if the situation is as your legal argument presents, then of course trump shouldn't be disqualified. but are you sure that your definition of rebellion is the same as it was during the time the constitution was written? the definition you present makes armed rebellion part of what 'rebellion' means. obviously, just reading words as they are, that might not be how the people who wrote it intended.
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The 14th amendment bars those who insurrection or rebels against the constitution. I don't buy the argument that he committed insurrection but he did try to overturn a legit election. Should that count as rebellion?
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i'm sorry for your loss. i dont know if it helps or hurts, but like the orthodox, i think we all experience God's love on the other side. we might not all like everything God's love does to us, but we experience it fully, like a father reuniting with a son.
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@Critical-Tim
the smallest known measurement is plank's length. i dont know if that's the smallest that can be measured, or the smallest possible, but even if it's the smallest measurable, we can't know if it's possible to get smaller.
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it's true. we have a bloated military and healthcare sector so we cant afford the same social services other countries have. if you look at how much we spend compared to other countries, we have less taxes and social services, but if you look at overall spending, it's about the same as other countries.... our private sector healthcare if it were directed by the government, would put our overall taxes in line with other countries. our military is bigger than the next ten countries' militaries combined. our healthcare spending per capita is twice what other countreis spend. we have a lot of waste and excess in this country.
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what if the universe was infinite? there could be infinite planets and stars, or there could be a limited number and infinite space.
but that doesn't necessarily imply infinite possibilities, does it? we might assume that if there's infinite space and a whole lot of matter, that there must be infinite possibilities, but that is a big assumption. in an infinite possibility universe, i would be in better shape and get lots of models as girlfriends in some of those possibilities or alternate universe. but if there's limited possibilities in an infinite universe, then that assumption is false.
what say you?
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@Greyparrot
if there are any regulations that limit emissions that poor people cause, that's bad for them.
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@Savant
"Picking random answers here puts me at the bottom 22.82%. So it's not giving random results, but it is scoring people higher than it should."
if you pick a random number, you have a 25% chance of guessing correctly given there's four choices. how are you so sure that the bottom 22 percent of people should get better than 25% of the answers right? is the assumption that even dumb people should be able to do better than random picks? that might be a fair assumption, but i dunno.
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Increase in prices from regulation mostly affects the poor
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@HistoryBuff
you say it affects the wealthy. what about the poor? if there's limits on who can drive gas cars, that affects poor people the most. if there's limits at all, it can affect poor people who can't use fossil fuels.
i'm not saying we should do nothing, but it needs to be well crafted policies.
we should double down on alt energy, and maybe figure out how to reduce existing or prevent future carbon with technology, but i suppose i'm skeptical about limits on emissions. i dont know what the right policy would be, so that it doesn't affect poor people.
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@cristo71
excellent points
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i acknowledge as everyone should, that climate change is man made and making the globe too warm. just look at the coral reefs. they've been thriving for millions of years, but suddenly in the industrial era, it's become too hot for them. they probably would have adapted if it wasn't for man's sudden shocking input. plus the overwhelming consensus of scientists on global warming is significant.
but what is the solution to this? cutting back on carbon and using alt energy. i acknowledge using alt energy is good, but to the extent that we're cutting back on emissions, what's the consequences? dampened economic activity, and on the margins people can't survive. of course with climate change, there's droughts and unstable weather patterns. but which is worse?
as of now, we're not doing all we can to stop climate change, so the cure doesn't seem so bad. but what if we did do what it takes to lessen climate change significantly? it could be a disaster, couldn't it... where the cure is worse than the disease?
climate change is a disaster, but i think we ultimately will be able to adapt.
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to offer a contrary position, i think we should have a lot less moderation. at least from where i sit, any activity is good activity. it's amusing and stimulates discussion. the only thing that should be banned is anything that could be viewed as illegal. for example, excessive harassment and threats of harm would be illegal.
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