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@Tradesecret
Thanks for that extremely revealing piece of proof for the existence of God.
I shall set to and disprove it........
......just as soon as you explain what it is in the article that constitutes proof in the first place so that I can at least attempt to disprove such proof.
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@zedvictor4
We have hot cross buns because a bloke named Jesus might have existed once upon a time a couple of thousand years ago.Similarly, that's why we stuff ourselves senseless in December.Religion hey!It's all food and drink based really.
I heard that Lindt are making chocolate nails for Easter this year.
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@skittlez09
Going about it like you have all the answers and they're stupid isn't the way to go about it.whether or not you believe they are stupid or not, it comes across that way.
Those are very bold statements.
Perhaps you would like to elaborate on exactly what you mean.
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@Alec
I'm presuming that you mean the Christian God.If God doesn't exist, then how did it predict the founding of Israel in the Revelation?
It would not take any extraordinary powers of foretelling to predict that any number of states in the region would undergo formation, in particular Israel, which was destroyed and resurected a number of times. The region was even more volatile 2000 years ago.
If someone, thousands of years ago had specifically predicted that David Ben-Gurion would be appointed leader of the new state in 1948 and wrote such in the Bible, every person in the world would be a Christian.
However, that's not the case, is it?
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For me, it's usually at the traffic lights.
However, for theists, it must be a daunting choice in selecting the right religion, i.e., the religion that is authentic, making the remaining 9,999 religions false and fraudulent.
So, tell me guys, how do you do it? I mean I really do admire your sense of decision making and there surely is a point after which you have thoroughly researched and considered which religion is the real one.
You would have to have a keen nose at sniffing out the religion that is genuine and rejecting all the other religions that are, well....snotty.
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@ethang5
In the final analysis, we both know what zero reply threads mean, don't we?
It's a bit like the good ole cryptical question where the answer is implied.
And we both know that there doesn't need to be any reply for the message to sink in....good and hard.
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@Mopac
You are the one listening to demons, not me. The demons who tell you that The Truth does not exist, and that there is no Ultimate Reality.Truth stands clear apart from error, and your error is manifest for all to see. God forbid a fool who denies The Truth be taken as anything other than deluded
Do you often throw your hands up in despair wondering why everyone is crazy but you?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Will you except a ' burning fiery bush ' as proof of god. ?I know someone who did.
Thanks for that Deb.
Isn't it amazing that some people can instantly get the meaning of the thread and others make out they don't. Hmmmm.
As opposed to one other member on this page (and I won't mention rosends), you have the guts and honesty to actually properly respond to the thread without endlessly beating around the bush.
In fact, you set it on fire.
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@Mharman
You believe a deity is so impossible that anyone who disagrees you is deluded. You believe that you can never be wrong on religion, which comes from narcissism.
Wrong.
And your statement is offensive and a lie.
You can see on this page that I have made clearly defined statements that have been correctly backed up by evidence. Those statements have not been challenged by anyone and stand as fact and I did not make them up.
Fact: You are an offensive liar.
.....as I have just proven.
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@rosends
You can keep on pouring out the stalling crap as much as you want but here are the facts:Yes, your insistence that you can prove a negative though elsewhere you wrote that it couldn't be done.
1) You have failed to provide any proof whatsoever.
2) Because you have no proof to offer.
3) Your latest deceptive tactic is to infer that I came down in the last shower and that your delaying tactics were merely "enquiries".
4) I didn't come down in the last shower.
5) Because of your dishonest delaying tactics, you lose...once again.
Is it any wonder that die-hard religious fanatics have a universally nasty reputation for being a bit shy of the truth?
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@PGA2.0
That is the most stupid and ignorantly arrogant statement anyone could ever make.What I am saying with that particular sentence is that some people who believe in God are willing to take Him exclusively on His word and do not need the other external verification. The eternal verification is often an apologetic or apology for the unbeliever, but it also strengthens our faith.
Where do you think you get "God's word" came from?
From external verification, that's where.
So, you are using external verification to reinforce that external verification.
And what may I ask is the external verification?
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@Alec
Yes I did answer and no bleeding wonder you forgot since it was a pretty dumb question anyway.If God doesn't exist, how did the pope come into power? (if you responded, I forgot the answer)
And quite frankly I forgot the exact answer, but you could be sure that it would have been quite blunt and sarcastic.
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Talk about intellectually dishonest. You have done nothing more than nitpick the arguments of others.your rhetorical approach is intellectually dishonest
How about not being such a wimp and stop deceptively avoiding the subject.
Anyone with half a brain can see that I blatantly and sarcastically asked the rhetorical (yes, it was rhetorical) question for anyone to supply some proof.
And, you and I know why it is a rhetorical question, now don't we?
Because we both know that there is absolutely no proof to submit, don't we?
So, you stop your deceptive, slimy dishonesty in making childish diversions.
You know damned well what the subject is about.
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@PGA2.0
you carry a constant theme of attacking the Christian worldview
And you being very deceptive again and making it sound like I have it in for Christians just for the heck of it.
You know damned well that I have specifically attacked the systematic bigotry, vilification and incitement of hatred by Christians. I have completely backed up and justified my assertion. You, nor anyone else on this forum has denied such and my assertion stands.
Christians believe God's Word as true. Unbelievers do not.
That statement is hollow, meaningless and displays a total arrogance that everybody should obey the "words" of your imaginary friend.
The Bible is that kind of roadmap.I believe what the Bible teaches
The Bible teaches bigotry, hatred, fear, jealousy violence extreme sexism, gratuitous killing.
And if you believe what the Bible teaches then you are a bigoted, sexist hate-filled, anti-social who has no place in decent civilized modern society
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I am prepared, right here and now to place my reputation on the line and disprove the existence of God.
My pledge is genuine and unequivocal: I am prepared to disprove the existence of God.
So, please, can someone start the ball rolling and present a proof for me to disprove?
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How would you interpret the following? . . . . . . . . . . . "Mary had a little lamb"
Mainstream Religious: Mary ate a small crumbed cutlet.
Fundamentalist: Mary committed bestiality.
Extremist: The mother of Christ ate a sheep while having sex with it.
Atheist: Mary had a little lamb.
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Science has finally been able to detect supernatural phenomena, which includes, of course, God.
I know I know, amazing, isn't it?
Apparently, there are now highly skilled professionals who specialize in detecting the supernatural.
They are called psychiatrists and have labeled these phenomena as delusion.
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As we all know, religious followers have been persecuted ever since their strange beliefs were invented. So, it is no wonder then that the most anti-social of their behaviors singled out is bigotry.
For example, in the 19th century, slaveholders and their sympathizers defended slavery by pointing to its presence in the Bible as evidence that it fits within God's plan for social order.
And so, we hear cries of foul from religious zealots over complaints from minority groups at being vilified. Simply quoting that the Bible or Quran "says so" hardly cuts the mustard nowadays since the credibility of both nauseating works has been shot to ribbons and are both loathed by more people than those who follow their respective "books of rules to live by for the weak and vulnerable".
Religious groups it seems, are becoming more sophisticated now in their ugly stance against decent, moral society by citing the "right to religious freedom".
A pretty powerful shield to hide behind in order to insult or deride anyone who doesn't fit into their particular "in-group" don't you think?
I just wonder if those who shout out for their self-centered "religious rights" ever give a toss for "civil rights".
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Latest figures reveal that there are now more Muslims (1.8 billion) in the world than there are Catholics (1.2 billion)
When asked to comment, the Pope replied that he doesn't mind coming in a little behind.
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@ethang5
You are still the zero-reply king.Do you know why?
I can always tell when you like one of my hard-hitting, right between the eyes whammies.
They really get the blood a pumpin, don't they?
Number plate stamping...pretty droll eh?
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@ethang5
Yeah, I love statistics too. Although I must confess that my statistical analysis has progressed quite a bit further than a fixation on the figure, "zero".The dodged questions in my posts to you are legion. You are fake Sal. That is why barely a month into your infection of the religion board, you have more zero-reply threads than any member.
For example: Out of the first 32 threads listed on the forum page, 19 are from Salixes and....let's count them....one................, yes that's right, one from Ethong.
Oh, and second on the leaderboard with 5 is some twerp by the name of Willows.
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@ethang5
That's how he gets
That's how I get when someone is so limp-wristed that the best he can do is sneer and snicker at what other people say.
Then he finally musters up the most minuscule amount of guts to make a statement...."prayer is more than petition".
I mean, hallelujah, and whoopdeedoo, what a profound and daring revelation.
Would you ever embarrass yourself by coming out with such a weaker than weasel's pee statement like that?
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@zedvictor4
Is it delusional to believe in extra terrestrial lifeforms and should such people with such beliefs also seek appropriate professional help?Because as things stand, it's as much of an assumption to believe in E.T's as it is to believe in Gods.
In answer to your question; yes.
It is one thing to contemplate the possibility of life on other planets. It is another thing when someone walks into your office claiming that he had been abducted by aliens, irrespective of how many other people have said the same. He is deluded.
It is one thing to question the origin of the universe. It is another thing for someone to say that he has met the risen and living Lord Jesus Christ and walked with God for fifty years, irrespective of how many people agree with him. He is deluded.
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We all like to be identified as belonging to a prestigious institution, for example: "I'm a Harvard Scholar you kneeeoooow", or "I belong to the Bent Iron Golf Club where Tiger Woods is a member you kneeeoooow".
And, why shouldn't we feel proud and boast about our exclusive memberships. It shows to others what we are.
We call this phenomenon "Honor by Association". And, you would generally expect to be identified by the rules and doctrines of these particular organisations. That is only fair and reasonable.
Church people who are elated by their faith will similarly feel proud to boast their association to their particular denomination: "I'm a Roman Catholic you kneeeoooow" or I'm a JW you kneeeoooow".
But then, if we look at the converse of Honor by Association, we have a phenomenon called "Guilt by Association".
For example: if you belonged to the KKK it would be reasonable and fair to label you as an extreme racist. Walk downtown in your hooded white gown and you will expect to get more than slightly criticised for being a disgusting racist. It just wouldn't make the cut if you tried to wriggle out of your association by saying, "oh no, I'm not racist, I don't go along with that horrible stuff, I am just a member because of the friendship and the cheap beer"
Like heck.
Similarly, isn't it the same with Church groups who are known for their bigotry, hatred and vilification of minority groups?
"Oh no, I am just a Catholic because I enjoy the fellowship and kneeling down, I don't go along with all that bigotry, hatred and vilification that all Christian Churches are known for"
Like heck.
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@Dynasty
I'm sticking what the scholarship says thank you. And, I suggest you watch this playlist about Genesis. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUeQHe-lZZF2DTxDHA_LFxi
While you are sticking what "the scholarship says" (it's obvious you missed out on one) you can stick the You Tube videos about Genesis in the same place.
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@rosends
Oh well, he dared to stick his toe in the water and make a statement.prayer is more than petition
But I can go one more and be bolder than you:
"Prayer is a bit more than a petition."
Do you care to up the ante?
At this rate, we may get up to "prayer is saying something".....after say, 100 or so exchanges.
But then, anyone who knows me knows that I will always cut to the chase and make the deciding, definitive statement........
Waiiiiiit for it folks......
Prayer is a load of crap.
So, stop clasping your hands in the vain hope that your imaginary friend is going to cure the boil on your backside in favour over all the hundreds of thousands of parents around the world simultaneously praying, whose kids are dying from the most horrendous diseases.
If prayer does work (and it doesn't) I hope God has a decent set of priorities to send some sniveling little bugger praying over a bum boil to the end of the line to wait.........
.......standing up of course. That'll stop you from being so anal retentively self-pretentious, won't it?
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@Mopac
I'm smart enough to see that you don't know what isolating a variable means.
If you were anywhere near half as smart as you think you are you wouldn't be walking around with deluded thoughts of an imaginary friend wafting through your mind.
Nihilism is fundamentally an anti-intellectual philospphy.
And is it any wonder since there is nothing intellectual about religion?
Just keep the hollow one-liners a coming.
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@PGA2.0
Do you recognize any bigoty in your opinions and beliefs?
No, I don't. And if you are trying to deceptively infer such, it is telling why you don't come out and make a statement to that effect.
Do you recognize that you purposely stir up ill-feelings and center out Christians in the process?
I recognise the fact that Christians (even if through guilt by association) have for years insulted, assaulted, offended and hurt others in society who do not share their bigoted and hate-filled views as well of course, stir up ill-feelings amongst those who are normal, decent members of society.
And you have the nerve to patronizingly try and make out that I am guilty of such?
Is exposing the blatant bigotry, vilification, and hate by Christians towards minority groups bigotry, vilification, and hate itself?
No, it isn't.
And, I will tell you something else for nothing.
Just as bad, if not worse than the inground bigotry, vilification and hate by Christians are the slimy, jelly-kneed individuals who crawl out of the woodwork to make sneering, veiled inferences and question critics of their distasteful and idiosyncratic beliefs without even having the guts to actually state anything themselves.
Because, of course, they have absolutely no valid retort whatsoever in their defense.
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@zedvictor4
So a collective belief based upon an indeterminate assumption, that is to say a creation hypothesis, cannot be regarded as delusional.
So, does that in any way, make the subject of the delusion actually exist?
Many people (a collective belief) believe in witches. But does that make witches exist?
Are believers in witches deluded? Yes, they are.
And regardless of the number of people who believe such they are holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument.
Any person who believes in the existence of God or any other supernatural phenomenon is deluded.
And in my opinion, they should be getting the appropriate professional help in dealing with their constant delusional thoughts.
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@n8nrgmi
most christians just have faith in a best guess scenario, they can be persuaded by facts and logic. that means they aren't delusional. also a delusion has to be against culturally accepted ideas, and theism is a majority opinion, so again it isn't a delusion.you lack critical thinking
The belief in God is no longer a best guess scenario as it was hundreds of years ago and evolution by natural selection is by far more than just a "best guess", it has mountains of viable evidence to support it.
I have always maintained that most religious people do not believe there is a God, they subscribe to a religion purely through habit or social and family reasons. For example, a recent census in Australia showed that less than 14% of Roman Catholics regularly attend Church, confirming what we already know anecdotally, that by far, the majority of those who call themselves religious give their belief no more than lip service.
So, when I say "deluded" I am really talking about less than 10% of Christians, for example, who in Australia at least, represent less than 6% of the population.
There is always the argument that most people have delusions to varying degrees. But here we are dealing with people who maintain their delusion throughout every waking hour, that is, thinking they have an "imaginary friend".
Those who believe there is a God are deluded.
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@Mopac
It doesn't sound to me as if you have a genuinely scientific approach to this subject.
It sounds like that to you because you have a genuine desire not to bother to even type the subject into Google since you know of the inevitable....there will be five pages of properly conducted scientific studies confirming exactly what I argue.
Ooooh, and of course, them reports being scientamific and all that, you certainly won't be opening such damning evidence.
Ooooh, and what about all the social an educational reports on the subject?
You won't be reading those, will you?
In fact, the only thing that you could possibly read that won't mention a single thing that would contradict your beliefs is....errr....well,"Marvel 3-D Man".
And you wonder why theists have lower IQs?
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@Dynasty
The morals as outlined in Biblical scripture are draconian, barbaric, primitive, corrupt and well behind the times by hundreds of years.
Meanwhile, you haven't provided evidence for that claim.
So, would your argument be that the Bible was written one year ago?
Would your argument also be that, since the Bible was written only one year ago, it covers gay rights, abortion, vaccination, right to die, global warming and global economy?
Would your argument also be that, since the Bible was written only one year ago, there is no reference to killing a servant found guilty of adultery, that there is no reference to locking one's wife in a separate room whilst on the rags?
Would your argument be that where it says in the Bible if your wife puts out her hand and catches hold of a man by his privates (whilst you are fighting him), you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy; that reflects modern thinking?
Nah, just kidding; you wouldn't argue those points would you, nor any other point under the sun for that matter?
You're just content to only nitpick the intelligent arguments of others from the sidelines since well, let's face it, you have no argument anyway.
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@Dynasty
I have no doubt that it does, but since you have never actually aired a point I don't think anyone will ever know how it dodges your point, whatever the heck it is.That's actually not an argument, and a complete dodges of my point.
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@ethang5
Yes, I see what you mean.Nobel didn't "invent" dynamite.
There are many ways of being dodgy, like placing a keyword in inverted commas.
But then, wait. This is no ordinary artful dodger since Nobel did in fact invent dynamite.
You have to try the Ethong dodge, by making it so blatantly obvious that you are wrong as to make some people think, "better leave this one alone".
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It has everything to do with morgues and hospitals as per the thread as you damned well know.
You are trying to limit it to that,
Wrong, I'm not trying.
I am limiting it to that because that is precisely what the thread is about.
And the reason I limit it to that is because of my bloody-mindedness.
I am deliberately limiting the chances of deceptive people who think they can try all sorts of tricks to derail the argument because they know the obvious right from the beginning.
There is no hope of winning an argument that is based on irrefutable truth.
You lost the argument ages ago anyway for failing to offer an argument.
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@ethang5
Especially when somebody else gives the wrong bank details.But is Salixes imaginary too? Cause he's not helping those suffering wretches of children slowly dying either.
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@Dynasty
Provide evidence for anyone who believes there is a God are deluded.
I just did in post #6 which is actually one post above the one that you just wrote. I realise it may be tough for you to scan your eyes up so far whilst wearing those blinkers with only pin prick holes in them, but just try.
Also, I suggest you read this book. https://www.amazon.com.au/Why-God-Wont-Go-Away/dp/034544034X
I did. And it proves no more than confirming the Pareto principal that in any given community 80% are deluded....and yes, the book does say 75% of Americans are deluded (by implication) but, let's not nitpick, shall we?
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@Dynasty
I completely backed up my claim with facts and reason.
Sure you did,...
Exactly.
Now you can keep playing your circular charades but there will come a time when, while walking past the holy water fountain where all the other monks are congregated, instead of just going silent and looking at the dome, they will just all shout out in unison.... "Fu*k off Dienasty"
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@Dynasty
And, how come 65.4% of Nobel prize-winning were Christians?
And how come Nobel invented dynamite which has probably been responsible for killing and maiming more people than the lives saved by all peace prize winners put together?
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@Dynasty
What lies and deceptions? Again, you need to give reasons for why Christians hate scientists.<br>
Now, let me see, why would Christians hate scientists?
Could it be that scientists have completely overturned any notion that life was created?
Could it be that scientists have made a complete lie out of most of what is in the Bible?
Could it be that scientists continue to discover evidence on a daily basis that overturns conventional religious beliefs?
Could it be that Christians hate scientists who implement abortions?
Could it be that Christians hate scientists who aid assisted death?
Well, let's stop there...that's enough Christian hatred for one day.
Ask me another stupid question tomorrow and I will cite some more Christian hatred for you.
Then, that will give you the impetus to shoot the messenger as usual by calling me hateful.
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@BrotherDThomas
Even though I am a TRUE Christian, I can't recall any scientific facts that have ever been disproven using religion? My fellow Christians try in vain to spin doctor away scientific fact all the time, but then the damn Hell bound Atheists defer to logic and reason, and therefore derail the Christians argument. Sad indeed, and what tests my faith all the time. :(
I respect your reply there and I think what you say highlights the difference between religious minds and scientific minds.
One is not necessarily superior to the other and both have their strengths and weaknesses.
For example, those with analytical, critical-thinking, logical minds make great doctors and rocket scientists.
Whereas those whose minds are more "conceptual" and accept face value tend to...errr, um....do work.
Actually I hear there is a great demand at present for those who are skilled at number plate stamping. :)
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@ethang5
And same old lack of reply, especially to the damning video that was posted in that thread, namely:
Dare you even attempt to make a serious comment?
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@Mharman
Interesting joke. However, I don’t see you explaining just how “deluded” Christians are.
No you didn't see me explain, at least, not on this thread, but allow me to explain now:
Delusion: holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
(Oxford Dictionary)
The belief of God is an idiosyncratic belief that is contradicted by reality or rational argument>
Fact: Anyone who believes there is a God is deluded.
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@Dynasty
why do you hate scientists
They don't. Also, provide evidence for that claim.
No, because I, like just about everybody else in this forum, am getting rather tired of your constant lies and deception.
Perhaps you would like to explain to the public at large why you dishonestly made up that quote.
But no, I don't think you would like to do that, would you?
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@PGA2.0
"....to give hope and make sense of existence and life's most important questions...."
You mean: to give false (yes, it is false) hope through the used of guilt and fear of a promised afterlife.
"Perhaps for most a big factor but not necessarily false, depending on the belief system"
Who are you kidding? All religions are based on false premises.
"Or because of trying to find meaning without first presupposing God is a fools errand. I challenge you to try and establish meaning and I'll test you on how you know and why your limited subjective view is any better than any other."
If Religious followers did not have the limited subjective view (that they are proven to have) they would not presuppose God in the first place.
"So says the fool, according to the Bible. I would agree with that assessment since a person's limited mind cannot know there is no God. They would have to be all-knowing to determine that, and it would be easy to show they are not all-knowing, thus they fail to provide what is necessary for knowing such things."
It looks so nice reciting religious rhetoric doesn't it?
But you are really insulting the intelligence of anybody with more than half a brain who have done their research to discover it is half-wits who try to preach a load of superstitious, mythological crap to the rest of the world on the false pretexts that it is true and they are not deluded.
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@PGA2.0
Words are a funny thing. My thoughts are that words sometimes express what we feel most deeply in our hearts. I would say from all your postings that focus on Christianity that you hold ill feelings, hurt, and anger towards Christians, sometimes disguised in a nonchalant, sometimes in a provocative manner.
Let's just look at the big difference here.
Christians actively preach bigotry and hatred to minority groups. They deliberately stir up ill feelings, hurt in anger among those they attack, e.g. abortionists, gays, and assisted death advocates.
So, if you somehow get the feeling that it is me who unilaterally holds ill feelings, hurt and anger towards Christians, I say to you..... tough titties!
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@Tradesecret
I agree, because it is totally wrong.Excellent point.
But it was excellent in that the point was raised since I can set straight such deceptive lies.
For example, I quite rightly accused Moped of being bigoted and provided ample evidence.
I also accused Moped of being stupid and fully justified why.
There is no evidence whatsoever of bigotry from me or of being stupid.
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Reasons To Believe In God:
* To take control over and manipulate others for one's own self-serving ends.
* For cultural or family pressure reasons through naivety, gullibility or vulnerability.
* Out of sheer ignorance and arrogance to satisfy a selfish distorted ego.
Reason Not To Believe In God:
* There is no God.
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Psychiatrist: As I flip through these cards (with inkblots on them), I want you to tell me what each depicts.
Patient: Well, that's Jesus on the cross.....oh, and that one is Moses......and that's...yes, that's Noah building the Ark.....oh wow, that's Lot and he's............
Psychiatrist:.........OK, I've heard enough. It is apparent from this test that you are a compulsive religious nut and clearly deluded.
Patient: Who me???? You're the one showing me all those religious pictures.
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@Mopac
That's right, except that I am not the only one of the growing number of decent, moral, civilised people in modern society who are getting sick and tired of the repulsive veiled bigotry and hatred displayed by hardline religious fanatics.You are the one that says we don't care about these people.
I have properly backed up my claim and exposed your hatred and bigotry as prime examples.
And, you are the one who acts in denial of the fact that you are bigoted and incite hatred yet carry on with your morbid, ugly anti-social stand.
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