Yeah man, I'm not against women being topless in public. Taking the "women shouldn't have rights" approach is a pretty weak argument anyway haha.
In my opinion, your morality argument was the strongest one. There's really no reason for a certain behavior to be stigmatized if it doesn't hurt society. One could argue that nudity is somehow bad for kids, or the public, but it's a weak counter.
I think Tiwaz is right though, we were kind of arguing about different things. You were saying that social stigma (which causes shame) is a bad thing, and I was arguing that individualized shame is inherent and necessary. These two things aren't really interchangeable; one refers to the individual the other refers to society. Our arguments were slightly misaligned in that respect.
Ralph:
"Everything is particles" is a much pithier way of saying this haha. We see the same on this issue. I look at consciousness as a spectrum, from barely aware animals to highly aware apes. I don't think there's an exact point where something becomes conscious, rather I think awareness develops slowly as you add more intelligence.
RationalMadman:
Thanks for the source. I wouldn't claim it as "My argument" though, the Emergence of Consciousness is a pretty well-researched topic.
Some people believe that matter arises out of consciousness. Some people believe that reality only exists if we experience it. Some people believe that consciousness exists separately from matter. Many arguments are possible.
Hi Tiwaz, that's a good point. I guess I was operating on the assumption that social stigma implies shame, however a clarification there would be prudent.
Hey guys, great job on this debate. I'm only half way through but both sides seem very thoughtful and have made solid arguments.
My suggestion to both of you is to improve readability. You've got to remember that voters aren't nearly as invested as you guys, and a 10000 character-long wall of unformatted text doesn't read well outside of a good novel.
Be concise - delete unnecessary extra bits to make your strongest points stand out more. Use the italic, bold and underline features to emphasize certain points and keep the reader's attention. Throw in the occasional point-form list. Spice it up. Strive for more than just being right; strive for being right AND entertaining. I would even go so far as to argue that a more readable argument will get more attention, and thus more votes.
I accidentally submitted my vote too soon. I also wanted to point out that you were both very convincing. If we look at it from shared BoP then I would lean Con, but taking that away I have to give it a tie.
I studied electronic engineering, and I have a lot of respect for Tesla. Unfortunately, he never published his "Dynamic Theory of Gravity", so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Could you clarify exactly what theory you support?
Thank you. Some of those contradictions in your opening argument made me laugh. Should be fun to discuss.
Yes, it looks interesting. The questions only round is new to me but I'm willing to try.
Yeah man, I'm not against women being topless in public. Taking the "women shouldn't have rights" approach is a pretty weak argument anyway haha.
In my opinion, your morality argument was the strongest one. There's really no reason for a certain behavior to be stigmatized if it doesn't hurt society. One could argue that nudity is somehow bad for kids, or the public, but it's a weak counter.
I think Tiwaz is right though, we were kind of arguing about different things. You were saying that social stigma (which causes shame) is a bad thing, and I was arguing that individualized shame is inherent and necessary. These two things aren't really interchangeable; one refers to the individual the other refers to society. Our arguments were slightly misaligned in that respect.
Until we meet again, Steel Ralph.
Ralph:
"Everything is particles" is a much pithier way of saying this haha. We see the same on this issue. I look at consciousness as a spectrum, from barely aware animals to highly aware apes. I don't think there's an exact point where something becomes conscious, rather I think awareness develops slowly as you add more intelligence.
RationalMadman:
Thanks for the source. I wouldn't claim it as "My argument" though, the Emergence of Consciousness is a pretty well-researched topic.
Some people believe that matter arises out of consciousness. Some people believe that reality only exists if we experience it. Some people believe that consciousness exists separately from matter. Many arguments are possible.
Hey Ralph, good debate! Sorry about the forfeit at the end, just got busy with school work, you know how it goes.
Holy crap you're quick. It takes me so long so come up with a decent sounding argument and you just rip one off 10 minutes. HOW THO
Hi Tiwaz, that's a good point. I guess I was operating on the assumption that social stigma implies shame, however a clarification there would be prudent.
You're just saying that so I read the rest of the debate :P
I will, after I figure out how to answer my own debate. Totally stuck at the moment.
Hey guys, great job on this debate. I'm only half way through but both sides seem very thoughtful and have made solid arguments.
My suggestion to both of you is to improve readability. You've got to remember that voters aren't nearly as invested as you guys, and a 10000 character-long wall of unformatted text doesn't read well outside of a good novel.
Be concise - delete unnecessary extra bits to make your strongest points stand out more. Use the italic, bold and underline features to emphasize certain points and keep the reader's attention. Throw in the occasional point-form list. Spice it up. Strive for more than just being right; strive for being right AND entertaining. I would even go so far as to argue that a more readable argument will get more attention, and thus more votes.
Haha we sure did. Hopefully this one will be just as fun. I have the advantage though - I've read your position on this before :)
We meet again Steel Ralph
I accidentally submitted my vote too soon. I also wanted to point out that you were both very convincing. If we look at it from shared BoP then I would lean Con, but taking that away I have to give it a tie.
I studied electronic engineering, and I have a lot of respect for Tesla. Unfortunately, he never published his "Dynamic Theory of Gravity", so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Could you clarify exactly what theory you support?
Sorry it wouldn't let me send this to Type1