Total posts: 618
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@3RU7AL
It's unclear how the door got open, but all the cops are just letting them walk by. It seems to suggest that they opened it on purpose. Who made the decision? Given the docility of all of those officers suggests a top-down decision, or at least one made by the officers on the spot as a group, or something. What part of the capitol is this? Oh well, I'm sure questions like this will be answered eventually, probably in some 400 page dossier 9 months from now that I won't bother to read.
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@3RU7AL
I didn't say intentions were the only thing that mattered.
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@3RU7AL
How do you QUANTIFY intentions?
This isn't a deposition. You got to get to the point.
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@3RU7AL
Not sure what you’re getting at, but intentions are a big factor in culpability.
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@3RU7AL
It depends on the situation. If we're at a casino the outcomes become very quantifiable. If we're doing sports betting it starts to get a bit fuzzier. And when you have a confrontation on the street you just got to start eyeballing based on your life experiences. Unfortunately many situations aren't quantifiable and have to be eyeballed.How do you QUANTIFY "the probability of outcomes"?
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@3RU7AL
Because the future is uncertain, one should evaluate decisions based on the probability of outcomes as opposed to the outcomes themselves.
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@3RU7AL
Are you familiar with the concept of deontological ethics?
Consequentialism is better
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@Theweakeredge
TBH I told him to shut up because he said I voted for Trump or bought in to his conspiracy theories even though he has 1k+ posts here. Total lie. Anyone who knows me here would know that I’m one of the most anti-Trump people on these forums.
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@Theweakeredge
Debates or even conversations are rarely held to convince the other person, and they rarely do - even if one side has solidly won - but to convince others around you of your beliefs and opinions.
I don't know if you've noticed but I don't care much for appearances or convincing the crowd. These things don't motivate me. I'm disturbed by divisiveness and post-truth politics, and sometimes I have a vendetta.
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@Theweakeredge
What's the point? He already knows it's off-topic and annoyance at the focus on an off-topic issue I already pointed that out in post 94 and he doubled down.
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@Theweakeredge
Tu quoque is a fallacy and off topic. That's all he wants to talk about.
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@3RU7AL
K. Hypothetical - The death star is pointed at earth, ready to fire. If we punish Trump, the death star will fire and it will be the end of earth, humanity, everything. Would you still think that we should send Trump to jail? I think not.
At what point are the consequences too great that it's just not worth it and we should just let him go?
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@ebuc
First of all, I didn't contradict myself. Second of all, the fact that you're alleging a contradiction and focusing on that allegation rather than addressing the gravamen of my argument indicates that you are unable to articulate a cogent response to it.This is twice youve contradicted you statement in post #40. I think you may be a confused extremist.
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@3RU7AL
I agree with what you're saying but the nation needs to heal and move forward. That is more important than punishing Trump. If we put him on trial for whatever, prosecute and imprison or execute him - What do you think that's going to do? Create a public spectacle that will keep open and festering the wounds Trump has caused. That's not a future that I want. I think we're better off just letting him go.
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@ebuc
You said the extreme opposite in post #80 and I replied accordingly. Your jumping from one extremme to another. This is typical of people unclear as to whether call me a genius or crazy. These people having trouble with the moderation of their intellectual ability, in regards to ebucs ideas, scenarios etc.Jailing him is not and eye for eye scenario. Jailing is about consequences of his and others actions that require justice, fairness, forgiveness , compassion and above all truth!Forgiveness and compassion means not a death penalty as you stated.
K. I'll simplify it for you. If you send Trump to jail, there will be a big risk of big and bad consequences. So don't do it. It's not worth it. That's my reasoning.
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@3RU7AL
......'And and eye for and eye leaves the whole world blind'.... Mahatma Ghandi
That's pretty much my reasoning as to why we're better off just letting him go.
We certainly wouldn't want JUSTICE to be INCONVENIENT.
The costs and risk I mentioned were more than a mere inconvenience. Consider them and consider whether or not it's worth it.
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@ebuc
Trumpet his son and Rudy should be jailed
I don’t really disagree that the interests of justice would be served by doing that. Honestly I think jail isn’t enough. Trump should be put to death for treason.
But there are other things to consider than justice. Punishing Trump would further divide the nation, and Trump’s most extreme supporters may seek retribution. I’m not convinced that justice is important enough to outweigh the costs and risks.
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@Greyparrot
It took over 2 years of investigating Russia for Authority to claim with evidence that Democracy was safe.They now have 4 years to investigate election procedures and finally claim with evidence that Democracy is safe.You just need to trust Authority a little harder comrade.
Trump’s numerous objections to the election were considered and rejected by the states, federal courts and congress. It’s time to move on.
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@fauxlaw
Standing? There is not elective allowance for making that determination. They are to hear the case, and only then determine results. Your, and thiers, is a cafeteria-style use of the Constitution: choose this, ignore that. Can't do that.
Two SCOTUS justices took that position, but even if they heard the case, it wouldn't have made a difference:
Statement of Justice Alito, with whom JusticeThomas joins: In my view, we do not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction. See Arizonav. California, 589 U. S. ___ (Feb. 24, 2020) (Thomas, J., dissenting). I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.
The point is moot.
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Trump's a narcissistic psychopath. Everything he caused today flows from his character. I'm not surprised that Trump has resorted to violence to maintain power.
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@FLRW
So was the asian tsunami. But yeah, looks like theyre going that way. Pack SCOTUS imo.
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Looks like the GoP will likely maintain senate control based on what's coming in. Though, I'm wondering if there's going to be any of that stuff like what happened on election night where the mail in ballots get counted later.
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@Danielle
I had been doing quite a bit of reading about narcissism lately. Yes, Trump definitely comes across as an extreme narcissist. I think he doesn't even know that he is one and projects his way of thinking on to other people. When he was at a memorial cemetary he asked "I don't get it. What was in it for them?" Like, he doesn't understand sacrifice and thinks it's for suckers, I guess. And, to a certain extent, I sometimes agree with him from a rationalist perspective. Nice guys finish last, but he doesn't know that what's going on in his head. These delusions cause damage, as we see, and make him unfit for office.
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@Danielle
I listened to the whole call. Trump came across as caught up in a denialist delusion. This state of mind sort of excludes fraud. It's like he's been that way his whole life. Like, facts don't even exist to him, or something.
EDIT: It's pretty clear that Trump's denialism has been extremely divisive and damaging to the country, and particularly to the interests of the GoP. Trump is using his influence over GoP voters to control the behavior of people in elected office. Don't buy in to Trump's denialism? He'll call you as RINO and/or tell people not to vote for you. Put all this pressure on you with threats of criminal prosecution or jeopardizing your political future, like you can see in that phone call. Now Trump's getting all these GoP reps in congress to take sides, just to further his own doomed interest. It's the ultimate selfishness. And you know what, the GoP put him in there. They nominated him. Time for them to "take responsibility" for all the damage he's doing.
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@zedvictor4
That's a pretty good one, too.
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Trump's gone on the 20th. He can't stop it. Hopefully he dies before 2024. It's too bad that COVID didn't get him.
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I'd opt for Genghis Khan. The epic barbarism, raping and pillaging would have been so awesome. Oh and he got all the best pussy.
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@fauxlaw
Sorry, your iirc is incorrect.
I see. I didn’t read drafterman’s reply to your post. I only read your reply to mine. I said nothing about Trump before you did. Now after you mention Trump for comparative purposes, Oromagi then posts many times when Trump either lied or misspoke. It is relevant to the conversation. It is not changing the subject because the subject was already changed by the time he got here, and you seemed to go along with it until now. A little late to raise the objection.
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@fauxlaw
My topic is Biden. Trump is off topic.
IIRC you were the one who brought up Trump. See for yourself https://ibb.co/album/jydCTw
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@fauxlaw
lying and missoeaking are not the same thing.They're not? Since when?
NOUN
- 1An intentionally false statement.‘the whole thing is a pack of lies’
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@fauxlaw
Frequency is a gage?
I mean, if he does it too often then it may suggest a problem with his mind. But if its not more often than the normal range then I don’t see a problem. So, yes, frequency would be an indrect gauge.
So, you county Trump lies. I'll count Biden tongue-ties. Fair enough? Or is yours a one-way street?
Meh. lying and missoeaking are not the same thing. They should be in different categories. Apples and oranges. But yes, count both if your intention is to compare the two, but that much is moot now since the election is done.
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@fauxlaw
Biden misspeaks more than he can offer a clear, concise sentence.
Lets be fair. He's only human. People are going to misspeak from time to time. It's unavoidable. The issue would be whether or not the frequency of the incidents is significantly outside the range of normalcy... which might suggest a problem with mental acuity. You seem to be taking the position that it is - Yet, I do not see any data on this.
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@Greyparrot
Yes, the situation with unions is a form of wholesale corruption, but it would be a mistake to throw the baby out with the bathwater... There are ways to correct this problem to ensure that it is the interests of the public that are served.
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@Greyparrot
Can't trust the providers of services to give honest advice in most situations, which is totally stupid because the providers of the services usually would be a very convenient expert. That's how business is in capitalism. You got to not trust and keep everyone at arms length because you know that the world's full of people trying to con you. It's not like that with government services (usually) because there's no profit motive. Still got to watch out for competence problems though. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better.
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@Greyparrot
More misleading stats. That is only federal spending in that source. You're sounding like the people who talk just about federal personal income tax when they're discussing how progressive taxation is in the United States.
Public spending as a % of GDP would be more appropriate. US has a pretty high deficit. Norway's public revenue may fluctuate significantly with oil prices too.
US Looking like just under 40% total combined federal, state and local. Norway's government is unitary. Norway looks like about 50% recently.
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@Greyparrot
I don't agree with everything Norway does, but that article is full of intentionally misleading statistics. Show me the overall tax burden in Norway - by income group - compared to the overall tax burden in the United States - by income group. BTW, you make 120k salary in San Francisco you're going to get about the same take-home pay if you made that much in Oslo. See for yourself:
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@Greyparrot
Mostly I provided the link about tax burdens because the most relevant fact (I think) in considering fairness with respect to tax policy is to the overall combined tax burden. You had said something like bottom 49% pay no tax but this is misleading at best when you consider payroll, state, and local taxes.
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@Greyparrot
Well, generally the more unrelated income is from work the less I consider it to be "earned". I did work for a lot of it, but now I haven't been lately mostly because the work I did got trashed by COVID. I'll probably go back after the vaccine, mostly cuz it beats sitting around.
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@Greyparrot
Honestly I worked hard til I got money. Now I’m totally lazy and live off investment income.
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@Greyparrot
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@sadolite
Yes you are correct, I have no evidence. I am just making it all up to trick you. There really is a bottomless pit of money and you have nothing to worry about. You got me.
Raise taxes on the rich, treat capital gains as ordinary income (max deferrment of 10 years), close tax loopholes, increase federal vice taxes, cut military spending to the bone, and begin state capitalism as a source of public revenue.
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@ethang5
Your source referred to the phone call thing as "a completely unsubstantiated, bogus story". I think that's harsher than I would have put it lol. I mean, I at least remain open to the possibility that it could be true (even though I think it's unlikely to be true).
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@thett3
The priority should be saving lives from an ethical standpoint. Everything else should take a back seat to that. I would imagine that if minorities would receive a disproportionate amount of the initial vaccines if they were allocated in order to save the most lives because minorities have been disproportionately affected by the virus.
These people saying these things... A lot of people who are ambitious and driven simply say and do whatever they have to in order to advance themselves. Perhaps they don't believe in anything other than acquiring greater social status. George Wallace did that, and when the political environment changed where he could no longer succeed politically as a segregationist, he became a reformed racist, apologized to black people, and had a bunch of black people in his cabinet during his final term as governor.
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@thett3
Go to page 31.
I see it. It doesn’t appear to have been a dispositive factor. I agree that this is dangerous reasoning though. If they were allocating based on race I wouldn’t be opposed to people taking it off the trucks. These people are idiots.
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@thett3
Identity politics as a means of social control is well documented.
Pretty much divide and rule. And we're divided and ruled by the rich. This will probably continue ad nauseam in American politics until the minorities grow enough in number to squelch the white identity vote or there is some racial separatism, or something like that.
*how* they chose to pitch this decision
I don't much connection between Harald Schmidt and the CDC recommendations.
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@ethang5
Has anyone heard about the recorded phone call between the chief justice and another member of SCOTUS about how to keep Trump from winning the election?
Based on 1 minute of googling, someone probably made it up.
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@sadolite
Debt viewed as a % of GDP may be a more appropriate measure of the problem, perhaps also considering it versus national wealth.
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@3RU7AL
Please be slightly more specific.
I mean, poverty would be one of the things sought to be avoided. Poverty begets poverty, but this would be an oversimplification. There are general issues like poor social mobility, but I think what you may be more interested in is what, if any, of the issues would be specific to the black community. And I don't think any are truly exclusive. Though, I do think it would be accurate to say that some of them would be more pronounced. For example, success in education being viewed as acting white would probably be the cultural issue most specific to the black community I can think of off the top of my head.
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