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Oh ok nice speed for ninja invalidating me.
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@drafterman
And yeah traditionally if one of the siblings is killed, the other technically commits suicide, which a doc/BG can't protect against.
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@drafterman
Obviously because scum decided to kill Single, or Water decided to kill Single for whatever reason.1. Bullish needs to explain why he didn't guard Supa/Single
I guarded Supa btw, exactly like I said I would.
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This game is so imba.
Imagine if Pie was town. We'd be sitting at 4-3-1 right now, TP decides the game.
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@Singularity
ur the mainkick, I'm the sidekick
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@Speedrace
do yer joOoOoOoOob
Is pie lynched?
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@WaterPhoenix
I'm not scrolling through 46 pgs of text
yes u are
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@SirAnonymous
The easiest way to get good at scum hunting is realizing the fact that scum have a filter.Again, given that the mafia would be just as pleased as town that the TP got exposed, why would you expect a mafia's reaction to that event to be unnatural?
When scum talk they talk through a filter, no matter what.
Even if scum and town would have reacted the same way, scum is doing so through a filter. Scum has to think first "how would town react in this case," then decide whether to react the same way.
It doesn't matter how they end up reacting, they've gone through a filter. Gut reads are a good way to detect that filter.
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@Vader
Vote Sir, your lover is voting Sir. Show some support for your lover.
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@drafterman
can u put Sir on top of the ballot. Doing so increases the chance of him being voted.
Politicians want to be put on top of the ballot for exactly this reason, because I think studies have shown that #1 on the ballot on average gets 6% more votes than #2 or something like that.
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@drafterman
can I get a hell yea brother
UNVOTE
VTL Sir
Sir is now the most viable lynch wagon.
Pie unfucked himself, it is now Sir who has fucked himself by not hammering Pie when he had the chance.
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WaterPhoenix - null
SirAnonymous - SCUM
SupaDudz - town
Ragnar - scum
Greyparrot - town
Singularity - town
Discipulus_Didicit - scum
drafterman - town
ILikePie5 - null
oromagi - null
Lunatic - claimed TP
warren42 - town
Bullish - me
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@Singularity
Take your vote off me, I claimed. As of now I'm your best chance of survival. Go ahead and hammer pie, there's only about 12 hours left in the DP anyway, with 1000 posts we got what we needed out of it.
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@ILikePie5
Pie you just done fucked yourself.
UNVOTE
VTL Pie
a null lynch is better than nothing.
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@Vader
Supa, you aint dying tonight cause I'm guarding you. I know scum is too scared to play the WIFOM game with a skilled WIFOMer such as myself so you're safe.
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@drafterman
I was arguing that we shouldn't make assumptions about the thematic splitWhy not?
There was no reason. He was making assumptions about thematic split while pretending to not make assumptions about thematic split. His entire defense is contradiction upon contradiction, the same slips he made in his Office scum game. Hes been talking in circles for nearly 1000 posts, and he aint fooling me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
One of my two new theories actually has SA as hard scum for actual logical reasons and the other has him as a middling [null] read
Then vote him.
I'll claim right now. I'm Falcon (Falcon, not Sam Wilson), the BODYGUARD. The chances of a bodyguard dying in the night is at least twice as high as any other townie. Plus driving scum wagons as had as I am right now is a natural lightning rod, so I'm like 4 times more likely to die as any other townie. If I don't die later, lynch me.
We can lynch SA. Drafter sounds like he'd rather be on it. You scum read SA. Lunatic will sheep you. I'm sure Pie would rather lynch SA than himself. That's 5 right there.
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holy fuck this DP is going to exceed 1000 posts
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That's the point. I don't know how to behave naturally or unnaturally. If I did then the words natural and unnatural would no longer describe my behaviour. You can't "know" how to be natural or unnatural on command unless you're a sociopath.As I said the first time you questioned me about that post, the reason it was unnatural was because it was unnatural. I don't know how to communicate laughter over text in a natural way.
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@SirAnonymous
I've debunked this so many times. This is so ridiculous. There were several different possibilities that were obvious and fairly likely.
No you ain't debunk nothin. Everytime you "debunk" this theory you just contradict yourself more and more. Of the "several different possibilities" you came up with a grand total of TWO, both of which would mark Grey as scum! And you called one "obvious," the other "highly likely," which linguistically leaves little room for another probably scenario!
That may have something to do with the fact that I am usually wrong. Here's an interesting statistic for you: I have a 0% success rate at scum hunting. I have only lynched scum twice. One time, the mafia conceded. The other time, the mafia failed to vote, leaving me no choice but to lynch them. I have never caught scum of my own volition. Long story short, you shouldn't be surprised that I expect to be wrong.
Alright first of all I've been known to go back and dig up people's read accuracy and then call for others to "inverse" that person's reads. I now recognize that's an asshole move. But, the point here is you can't be ambivalent no matter how "good" you reason is, because the better reason from my perspective is that you're ambivalent because you're scum. You have to commit to something so you can be held accountable later in the game. The worst thing you can be in this game is to be afraid of being wrong. If you're wrong, no big fucking deal. It's a game and human behaviour is fluid.
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@Barney
Ragnar wtf. Since never has pushing lynches been scummy. Being bloodlust is a legitimate way to play, and you'd see that if you read any of my past town games.
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@warren42
My thoughts are more likely to be scattered as town than as scum.Because he's scum and therefore his thoughts are scattered. He's concerned with his image more than any sort of logic or reasoning.
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@ILikePie5
Would you say this
As a town Role Cop, possibly being the only power role
Then immediately say this
I’m assuming town has more power roles considering everyone has a role
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@drafterman
SA was on your 3 man elimination list. Vote him. I urge you to reread Pie and find that he is not scum. Single and Supa will likely get on board. We can get this going.
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If you're sheeping DD's scum read on me, all his stated reasons are wrong. The gut read is the only one I'd buy but everything else is wrong.
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Counterwagon against Sir.
See this post: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/152988 In the old old days of mafia, it classic scum tell to TP hunt.
My second point is the thing I've been talking about this whole game. His defense of grey in #63 "No, antagonist doesn't have to be scum" does not make sense, unless he has inside info (info later confirmed by Speed). By all reason, one should come to the conclusion that Zemo is scum. Sir indirectly admits this in #53 and then #260; by his own admission, good vs bad was an "obvious" thematic split, and cap vs iron man was a "highly likely" thematic split; both splits results in Zemo being scum. Sir should at this point at the very least NOT defend Grey based on thematic split, yet continues to do so. Note that his reasoning is explicitly because he didn't believe Zemo was necessarily scummy. I reiterate that thematically, there was no reason to believe Grey's char claim was anything but extremely scummy.
There are 2 options why Sir would have inside info:
1. Sir is town and as a bad guy role, like the heil hydra guy or Ross.
2. Sir is mafia and is a hero char, and his scum mates chars imply there is no thematic split.
I don't believe it's 1, or he would have said something about it by now. So it is likely 2. Ask yourself. If there is a thematic split to the game, and your character is one of the hero characters, do you honestly think it's reasonable for Zemo to be on your side?
Third point, Sir double talks, a meta he displayed in Office, but not Survivor. Double talking is saying something along the lines of "I scum read player X but I'm probably wrong." Double talking is a tactic used by experienced and noob scum alike to avoid suspicion and make it look like they're scum hunting without actually committing to anything. Here are some examples of Sir double talking:
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/153093 being for and against a Grey lynch at the same time
Examples of contradictions and inconsistencies:
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/153269 SA says sheeping bad, but says nothing about the sheeping here because it's on his buddy DD: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/153545
He also exhibits the CLASSIC SCUM TELL of OMGUS (against me in #266) and buddying his townreader (DD in post #311). That's also part of his scum meta from Office.
Sir's meta as mafia in Office:
Contradicts himself
Accuses people of being anti-town for scumhunting
purse-clutching conservative play
buddies people who town read him
double talk
Here's an example of Sir's blatant contradiction in Office:
The implication being it's bad for mafia to know your claim.
Then immediately contradicts that implication by claiming vanilla with only 2 votes on him:
And then there's this post" https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/153500 it just reeks fake. That's the gut read. If sir made no other posts except that one, I'd be gut reading him scum.
I wanna lynch Sir.
VTL Sir
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@Discipulus_Didicit
In my experience even on DP 1 going with your gut and lynching early is generally a good thing for much the same reasons that bullish is saying now.
How do you reconcile agreeing with my position after you've made this statement against me: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3593/post_links/153154
"Notice also how post 61 advocates for the DP to be as short as possible. Again, unlikely to come from someone known as a decent town player."
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Finally you feel what I feelOmfg this is taken care of immediately after. I am not going to ask that you shut up until fully caught up -I have actually said the opposite and stand by it - but at least read 2-3 pages at a time rather than 2-3 posts at a time.
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@SirAnonymous
When that chart is for DP1 only if I recall from when it was first posted.
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Yeah first of all, people saying that pushing a lynch early is scummy are spewing some bullshit. I know drafterman will back me up cause he made this: https://www.debate.org/drafterman/photos/album/2633/18865/ and gets mad when people question it. Early lynches are correlated with higher chance of lynching scum. Delaying the DP just makes town overthink and talk themselves out of lynching scum. In South Park for example Water was scum, and got a wagon real quick DP1, but we ended up no lynching then lynched 2 town in a row after that.
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UNVOTE
so yall have to suffer the full consequence of your wrongful actions against me in case I actually get lynched.
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I'm town so don't lynch me.
Let me start a counter wagon real quick
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I've only played 1 game on this site thus far, as town: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3448/south-park-mafia-dp1
I've been on a mafia hiatus for years, and it just so happened that every game for the last year or so I've been on DDO, I was town or TP. The last game I played as mafia that I can recall was nearly 5 years ago: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/67570/12/
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@SirAnonymous
Sir can I have links to your past games
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I'm going to proceed with the rest of the DP recognizing Grey, lunatic, supa, single, DD, and warren as town. This is just one of those rare games where I don't have a strong scum read on anyone yet. I would be scum reading oro but his meta matches his meta in South Park, which I mistakenly scum read until the very end of that game. Of the nulls, Sir is the only one I have a slight scum read on, mostly for defending grey.
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@warren42
I'll channel Captain America here.This shows my logical thought progression in the moment. Are you not interested in hearing my genuine thoughts and reactions? If not, why?
I'm interested in your genuine thoughts and reactions of immediate events, not events long past and invalidated. By posting continuously you're cluttering up the DP with outdated questions and speculation. This serves no contribution to the game, except for others' perception of you. However I'd much rather read your thoughts and reactions on events which are still relevant so I can discuss them with you.
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@warren42
warren, type what you're about to say then edit/post it after you've read the whole DP, cause right now literally nothing you said makes sense in the context of what has happened.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm rereading the DP for reads since most of my original reads got overturned.
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@oromagi
says the guy with the MLK profile pic
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UNVOTE
VTNL
that's on a vote so I don't cockblock town from a majority lynch if I'm offline.
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Alright yall got me convinced, forget what I said about grey and lunatic.
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@Lunatic
The one time grey talked he had a deep male voice lol. You might have been hearing britter my gf, she was the only girl in that chat and isnt a dart member.
Ok then.
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@Lunatic
That's exactly my point, you can't explain grey's actions unless he's scum. If it walks like a scum and quacks like a scum then it's a scum.Your asking me to explain another persons actions. Grey does what grey does. I'm just pointing out that the behavior is similar to other games, contrary to what you said.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I got you beat bruh my scum read rate is 60% up to the last game I did stats for, and that's DP1 only.Don't dismiss gut feelings out of hand, my famous 46% scum hitting rate was achieved almost entirely on gut feelings that I decided to take a closer look at, but I do happen to disagree with you on this particular point.
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@Lunatic
Also the stuff about GP's passive attitude is very true, and can be seen in very recent games (like vitrs game where he wanted to get lynched just to try and prove me wrong). Grey doesn't care about getting lynched. He never has over the top reactions.
Explain why then she would say "you got me" before you even claimed lyncher.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
GP is male. This has been mentioned to you before. You intentionally insulting him or just absentminded?
I swear when I was on discord the other day she had a girl voice.
More importantly though GPs passive attitude at being lynched is well within his character. I recall one game where I was scum and heavily suspected as scum and it was mylo and/or lylo and I pulled some really stupid gambit to which GPs response was "Eh, pretty sure DD is scum but I'll go with it". That is not the only example, GP is well known for being a relatively passive player most of the time. This is not necessarily a bad thing - he definitely does have good scumreading ability in my experience - but it is an aspect of his style that should be kept in mind when playing with him.
Link to the game? your example isn't one where grey knows for a fact her accuser is scum. Grey, if town, should have known that Lunatic is lying about her role and thus scum. Instead of saying something baseline like "that's a lie" or "lynch him next DP" all she said was "you got me."
My point isn't that you are wrong. My point is that you appear to be intentionally misrepresenting GPs style in order to push a narrative that is, frankly, pretty laughable. I was a significant part of that interaction that you claim is so blatantly manufactured, am I scum too? Did you really catch the entire scum team just now? You say SirAnons response seemed manufactured somehow. Is he also scum? Did Speed lie about there only being three? This line of thought is quickly getting out of hand, and all this from someone who advised town in his first post to "not overthink things" hmmm...
You're the one misrepresenting me, AND you just contradicted yourself. In the last paragraph you just said GP is passive. I said her excessive passiveness toward someone who she should know to be scum is indicative of her own scumminess, and you said being passive is her meta. Now you're saying that I'm misrepresenting GP's play even though you just agreed that she is being passive. How can you agree with my representation of Grey's play then immediately claim that I'm misrepresenting her? Are you saying you are also misrepresenting her play?
Why would you even bring up yourself and sir, my reads on Grey has nothing to do with either of you.
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@Lunatic
In South Park you literally win the game but you were still so mad you took a break from mafia. There's 0 way you could win this game now forcing you to play against your wincon because of a voting rule you don't agree with. You should be mad and the fact you're not means you're faking your wincon.I did express some dismay about the lynching mechanics, but ultimately not worried about the outcome because I partially wanted to assist town anyway. brain cell in my mind wanted to just come out as TP in my first post and take the loss and confirm grey and work with town, because you saw how easy that lynch would have been if the mechanics were normal. It would be a hollow victory, and ultimately pretty lame.
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@drafterman
I've seen drafterman mention that there is scum on Grey's wagon and would like to lynch from it several times now, and I'd like to address it in 1 post.
Drafter, you think there is at least 1 scum in 3 people: me, pie, and sir. So at worst, the chance of hitting scum in that pile according to you is >1/3.
But the problem with that is that from your perspective, the chance of random lynching is also at least 1/3. Why? because out of 13 players, you know that you're town, and out of the other 12 players, there is 1 TP + 3 scum, or 4 people who need to be lynched. That's 4/12 which is equal to 1/3. Through behaviour analysis you should believe we can achieve greater than 1/3 chance of lynching scum. So there is no need to confine your lynches to the Grey wagon.
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