Name One Wrong Thing That Jesus Did

Author: Best.Korea

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#61
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@rosends
You see Judaism as the contradiction and not the gospels as contradicting what already existed?
They contradict each other. You said it yourself. Yes, Judaism existed before Gospels. I am not denying that.
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@Best.Korea
Jesus worked on the Sabbath. 

Exodus 34:21 - the law 

Matthew 12:9-13- breaking the law
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@SkepticalOne
New Testament changed the rules for Sabbath.

Hence, why I think Jesus and God of The Old Testament arent same God. 

New Testament is a contradiction to The Old.
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@Best.Korea
New Testament changed the rules for Sabbath.
Maybe for Christians, but not for Jews. Jesus was a Jew.

Just FYI, the New Testament didn't exist until hundreds of years after the life of Jesus. 
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@SkepticalOne
Jews are irrelevant.

Jesus was God. He was not "a Jew". Jesus established new law that has nothing to do with Jewish laws.

Jesus didnt do anything wrong. Breaking bad laws is not a wrong thing. At best, you could accuse Jesus of breaking a Jewish law, which we can agree was a bad law to begin with.

Just FYI, the New Testament didn't exist until hundreds of years after the life of Jesus
It is based on Jesus's teachings.
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@Best.Korea
Jesus was God. He was not "a Jew". Jesus established new law that has nothing to do with Jewish laws.
Your'e being disengenous. I'm pointing out how Jesus did not meet the contemporary standards of his religion and time period. Youre judging Jesus by an unquestionable dogma which says Jesus could do no wrong. 

If you want to appeal to dogma as the standard, then you don't really need to ask any questions because the answers don't matter and the points are made up. 
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@Best.Korea
For some action to be "right" or "wrong" we must first establish a goal. There is no "wrong" way for a five year old to move a knight on a chess board because they don't know the rules they are just playing with a pretty horsey which is hard to mess up. A chess grandmaster however can absolutely move a knight "wrong" even if following the rules if he moves in a way which is counter to his ultimate goal of winning the game.

So tell me what is the goal here and whose goal is it?
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@SkepticalOne
Your'e being disengenous. I'm pointing out how Jesus did not meet the contemporary standards of his religion and time period.
I asked what Jesus did wrong. I ask that in a sense of today's standards, not standards 2000 years ago.

If people 4000 years ago were sacrificing humans, that doesnt mean that not meeting standards of that period and not engaging in human sacrifice is wrong. Quite the opposite. Meeting those standards would be wrong.
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@secularmerlin
I am asking according to moral standard of people here. What did, in your view, Jesus do which was morally wrong?
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@Best.Korea
To help spread the message, I guess. It says in the Bible that Jesus had to die so that others may believe.
Jesus was a subversive and died as a subversive. The gospels are the romantic version of his subversion, like Robin Hood whose story is not actually what people tell us, his history is completely different to people's beliefs.
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@Best.Korea
Well morality is intersubjective and no one opinion can be definitive. Since we are the only two involved in our conversation the subject becomes intersubjective between the two of us. All we need is a standard we can both agree on. I think a few good goals might be human welfare, the public health, and the freedom to practice personal bodily autonomy so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's autonomy. 

What is "our" mutual goal for the purposes of this conversation?
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@secularmerlin
Well, lets say in your view.

Did Jesus do more harm than good?
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@secularmerlin
In terms of human welfare, for example.
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@Best.Korea
You establish 2 different standards.

1 is " I ask that in a sense of today's standards, not standards 2000 years ago"


the other is "moral standard of people here"

Do you mean to combine the two and you are asking about the moral standards of today?

In that case, as my morals are crafted mainly by my religion, and Judaism's set of moral standards is the same as it was 2000 years ago, all the things that Jesus did that violated Jewish law would be a "wrong thing" according to my moral standards of today.

If we are talking about my sense of morality as formed by my membership in the larger society, in which I should behave properly towards others and follow the law of the land, Jesus, by overturning the money-changers' tables, did wrong stuff there, also.
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@rosends
I intentionally created the topic as it is to promote a discussion.

I could have set my own moral standard, but then the standards of other people would be ignored.

Yes, I understand that Jesus violated Jewish law, by today's standards too.

Yes, turning over someone's table isnt nice.

Still, he healed and saved lots of people, wouldnt you say?
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@Best.Korea
Well, lets say in your view.

Did Jesus do more harm than good?

In terms of human welfare, for example.
I'm going to do you a favor and skip the discussion of historicity and just grant that we are talking about the figure presented by the Bible and that real or fictional those are what we are evaluating. 

Just so I'm clear on your personal head cannon though do you consider Jesus as the same being as the Jahweh as described in the old testiment? Like did Jesus create the heavens and earth, flood the earth and act on behalf of Hebrews against Pharoah or is Jesus an entirely separate being?
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@Best.Korea
Also and sorry to bother you with such a trifling detail but just so the goal post doesn't move any more is the question 

Did Jesus do more harm than good?
Or is it
(Can you) Name One Wrong Thing That Jesus Did?

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@Best.Korea
Still, he healed and saved lots of people, wouldnt you say?
are you changing the question you asked in the OP?
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@secularmerlin
do you consider Jesus as the same being as the Jahweh as described in the old testiment?
No. Just The New Testament and what it says about Jesus.

Did Jesus do more harm than good?
Or is it
(Can you) Name One Wrong Thing That Jesus Did?
Usually, a wrong action is the one that causes more harm than good.

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@rosends
are you changing the question you asked in the OP?
No. I am stating that those actions did more good than harm. Respecting Jewish law would do more harm than good.

#81
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No. Just The New Testament and what it says about Jesus
Ok kewl I'll expect you to do the same
Usually, a wrong action is the one that causes more harm than good.
More harm than wellbeing? I really need you to be specific if we are going to get anything accomplished. And again one single instance of an action or moral pronouncement for posterity that fits this criteria as far as can be observed or the overall effect of the described figure upon the story's plot?
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@secularmerlin
More harm than wellbeing?
Yes.

one single instance of an action
Lets start with that.
#83
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@Best.Korea
but your original question just asked for posters to name one wrong thing. Now that you have conceded to a wrong thing, shouldn't you start a separate thread entitled "did Jesus do more harm than good"?
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@Best.Korea
12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.

15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple courts and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17 And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations’[a]? But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”

18 The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.

19 When evening came, Jesus and his disciples[c] went out of the city.

20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 
Poor fig tree.
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@secularmerlin
Didnt such action make his disciples more willing to follow him, and save many lives?
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@Best.Korea
It doesn't feel like that was necessary. In fact they seem to have already been following him. Also he could have as easily proved his point by making the tree bear fruit. In fact isn't making food like one of his things? I don't think the unnecessary "good" you are describing necessarily outweighs the harm to anyone who might want a tasty fig.
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@secularmerlin
His followers actually doubted him a lot, despite miracles of creating food. They even rejected him when he was crucified, and didnt believe for some time that he rose from grave. Their belief was for the most part hanging in the balance.
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@Best.Korea
So your argument is that their belief hung by a literal fig leaf? That if he had allowed that upitty tree to live we would all be bhudists now?

I'm still going to say that he could have provided the same "proof" by saving the tree and that this unnecessary harm is exactly what we are looking for case closed. 
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@secularmerlin
I am saying that Jesus performed many miracles, and they still doubted him. So yes, it can be said that fig tree helped them believe. In fact, they were more surprised by that fig tree miracle than they were about Jesus feeding 5000 people.
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@Best.Korea
they were more surprised by that fig tree miracle than they were about Jesus feeding 5000 people.

That sounds patently ridiculous and I am unaware of that being explicitly spelled out in the text.