Just Give Us One Miracle

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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@RationalMadman
Which miracle made God and how was that miracle conjured, instigated and implemented?
No miracle mad God. God has forever been, and always will be. 
The miracle was never conjured, instigated, or implemented because it never needed to be, because God has always existed. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
So has the dragon in my garage 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Which miracle made God and how was that miracle conjured, instigated and implemented?
No miracle mad God. God has forever been, and always will be. 
The miracle was never conjured, instigated, or implemented because it never needed to be, because God has always existed. 
Aside from correcting 'mad' to 'made' what you wrote is very solid.

Now, please do the following:

Replace God not even with 'universe' but with 'reality'.

Then it will hopefully sink in.
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Metals didn't just pop into existence.
Metals were formed through fusion in the nuclear furnace that is a star. This is a perfectly natural process which doesn't require any creator. Most thing in the universe likewise are formed through natural processes.
you just don't believe either.
To believe before have sufficient evidence would be premature.
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@RationalMadman
Replace God not even with 'universe' but with 'reality'.
No, because our universe is physical.
It doesn't work the same. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Replace God not even with 'universe' but with 'reality'.
No, because our universe is physical.
It doesn't work the same. 
I am not speaking about the universe, I am speaking of reality that was always there before and (if the universe somehow ends) after it. The canvas of reality, the backdrop, the raw reality.
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@YouFound_Lxam
If god is not physical how is god real?

As in is god more real than the space between things is reality?

I don't get how god is not just a subset of reality, god didn't make reality, no matter which way things played out, reality made god.

It's reality that is the axiomatic absolute.
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@RationalMadman
It's reality that is the axiomatic absolute.
Well stated and my new favorite RM quote. 
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@secularmerlin
GOD is a broad concept relative to human ignorance.

In that sense God is not required to be an existent entity.

So any creation type hypothesis derived from human ignorance, can be referred to as GOD.

Therefore GOD is BIG BOOM and BIG BOOM is GOD.

Or Dave.

But GOD is a widely accepted name.

And I think ALAN is well accepted in some quarters.


And something from nothing will continue to remain unresolved.

Therefore, some might argue that reality can never be anything more than a simulation of an unreasonable assumption.
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@secularmerlin
we thumbs up on this site if we like comments but thanks.

I do believe in a god though as in an original being but the reality is intertwined with it. As in I see it as a hybrid thing, reality and the god. The personality and consciousness of the god came later on and was a persona that the reailty/god that were originally there granted it randomly.

I could explain it in a clearer way but I've already done that, this time I worded it how I see it not breaking down the middle parts.

So:

there's one layer of reality and god

then there is the personality and consciousness of god.

The former is a randomly firing creation, destruction and 'rule-setting' mechanism of sorts that keeps flickering each part of reality. The latter was a randomly created personality that was randomly granted the power to hijack the random god-power and reality itself.
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@RationalMadman
we thumbs up on this site if we like comments
With all due respect that hardly sounds like something I would do.
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@RationalMadman
If god is not physical how is god real?

As in is god more real than the space between things is reality?
He exists outside of what we call reality. He created our reality therefore is not bound by it. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
If you are outside reality, you are not inside what is real.
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@secularmerlin
so you don't ever like posts as in click the thumb?
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@RationalMadman
so you don't ever like posts as in click the thumb?
Nope

Not on you tube or reddit either.
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@RationalMadman
Everything that occurs within a universe at any given moment is real at that moment.

Well.....I think that it is.

Or.........Thought that it was.

How long do thoughts exist for?

How long do moments last?

Does now ever exist?
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@zedvictor4
are you only asking things or making a point?
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@RationalMadman
So.

Q. When is real?



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@zedvictor4
time is an element in reality.

To be honest I don't fully grasp that part and I think you need to not be 'inside' the simulation to remotely grasp how it is to exist without time affecting you. I am also quite sure that god herself/itself (it's a mother not a father of reality) made it so that a lot of the future tense during the 'show' is not known to her/it.
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@RationalMadman
Time is an intangible potential that allows an event to have duration.

We can appreciate duration.

But can we ever pin down the moment we refer to as now.

Does now ever occur.

Or is there only future potential and past events.

Therefore....Does a real moment ever occur.
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@YouFound_Lxam
So has the universe 
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@zedvictor4
yeah that is what I am saying.

The 'now' is not real in the send of reality's timeline, the future has already happened in this simulation. You and I are in a simulated reality within reality. The real reality has generated a timeline for us. The real god probably intentionally leaves herself/itself blind to the future to make it interesting/fun to watch unravel.
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@IlDiavolo
The Big Bang theory is just a hypothesis as well as the theory of evolution.
Latter has more irrefutable proof and neither are hypotheses, they are formed conclusions and theories, otherwise they'd not be called theories but still in the hypothesising stage.

I would not go so far as to compare them though, evolution has far far more proof to it that cannot be denied. Big bang theory is based on estimations and 'guesstimations' given the structure and behaviour of elements within our reality. Evolution is nigh-irrefutable if one understand biology enough.
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@RationalMadman
But that basically says that this scenario isn't possible, whereas another hypothetical yet similar scenario is possible.

Because your scenario  suggests a sentient GOD.

And a sentient GOD suggests an existent mechanism contrived of matter, which would necessarily have to play by all the same rules.

Which is feasible, but only to the point of nothingness.


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@zedvictor4
Your brain and body are simulated, your sentient experience is simulated. They only match because those are the rules of this simulation. You are assuming you and I are real-real but the inner experience is the real part, whereas the body and brain are inextricably linked to that experience only within this realm/construct/simulation.

In the realm god exists, absolutely nothing physiological is attached to its sentience or longevity.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Why can't something have always existed?  Why is that not possible?
Because:
Something cannot come from Nothing. 
Something has to come from Something. 

So, at some point that means that there had to be nothing, meaning something couldn't of always existed. 
Not according to our best science, theoretically, this is how it is seen by our currently accepted science.

The Heisenberg UncertaintyPrinciple doesn’t just apply to the position and velocity of a particle, italso applies to the value and rate of change of a field, and it says the moreaccurately you know one, the less accurately you can know the other.  This isn’t a function of our ability tomeasure by the way; it is a fundamental feature of reality according to theStandard Model.   Consequently, theHeisenberg Uncertainty Principle tells us there is no such thing as an emptyspace because for there to be a truly empty space the value of the field andits rate of change would both need to be exactly zero; and the standard model,specifically Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle says that it can’t be exactlyzero

This is where you go wrong.  Why can't something always have existed?  In fact all evidence points to that it has
No. Thats wrong thinking. 
In the other thread "Contradictions" you argued (correctly I think) that there were no contradictions between science and Christianity, now you are pointing out contradictions, contradicting yourself is a weak argument.


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@YouFound_Lxam

It couldn't have always existed, because again, something cannot come from nothing, so at some point, that something had to of come from something. 

Time is measurable; therefore, time must have a start, and anything that exists before time, cannot exist because you need both time, space, and matter, for something to exist. 

Secondly at some point there had to be nothing. That means no time, space, or matter. It is really hard for humans to picture nothing, because even a black void is something. Now why did there have to be this point? Because if something exists then there has to be something that created it, and before that thing created it, that something wouldn't exist. 

These arguments are arguments against both sides of this debate.

Science says the answer transcends our frame of reference, and as such, it is beyond human understanding.  Your argument says God did it, God transcends our frame of reference and as such, is beyond human understanding.

How does this favor one over the other? It doesn't.

You are relying on a God of the gaps approach, which is not a valid argument when our spiritual detractors use it, and it's no valid when spiritual supporters use it. The“God of the gaps” fallacy is typically invoked by both sides of this debate and takes many different forms, a few being “God of the gaps”, “evolutionary advantage ofthe gaps”, “complexity of the gaps”, “hidden variables of the gaps”, “emergentproperty of the gaps”, and I will contend that they are all one and the same theory inprinciple. All of them are only different forms of the argument from ignorance,illogical attempts to say that the lack of an adequate explanation supports mypresumptions, and not yours, which is a logically invalid argument.

The concept of the “God ofthe Gaps” was coined by a deeply religious evangelical lecturer named HenryDrummond and then made popular by the use of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, anotherdeeply religious man who was martyred by Adolf Hitler. They were not trying toimply that it was an explanatory term, both used the term to describe what Godis not, both were railing against dumbed down and uninformed conceptions, toseize upon it and use it as an ad hoc explanation of religion is uninformed andanti-intellectual to the point of being absurd.

No serious scholar of religion has ever found this "God of the gaps"theory to be even loosely correlated with the evidence, nor has it ever beenconsidered to be the least bit analytically useful in the intellectual study ofreligion or faith. Perhaps the concept is ideologically useful in places likeinternet debate forums, but no real scholar of religion, faith, or theologytakes it seriously, it really only indicates a lack of knowledge regarding the subjectmatter.


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@RationalMadman
Evolution has no proof, what is provable is the adaptation process, otherwise known as microevolution.

I discussed this subject in a long thread long time ago.

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@IlDiavolo
Actually even that is not provable.  Science never offers proof


Proofs are for math only
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@Vegasgiants
Actually even that is not provable. Science never offers proof
Could you elaborate, please?