Author: YouFound_Lxam

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zedvictor4
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@YouFound_Lxam
Nope.

People didn't live hundreds of solar cycles.

But hundreds of lunar cycles.

So what we regard as 50 today would have been approximately 650 back then.

The word and term "year" is relatively modern, and comes from the Greek "Hora", meaning season.


And for sure, we don't know what Adam and Eve were doing because the sequel wasn't written.


OK. So the story of Adam and Eve is just a creation hypothesis and they weren't real people.

But the hypothesis still contradicts itself in the way that I stated.


Though if you you're prepared to believe the hypothesis then you have to accept the contradiction.
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@zedvictor4
Nope.

People didn't live hundreds of solar cycles.

But hundreds of lunar cycles.

So what we regard as 50 today would have been approximately 650 back then.
Nope. A lot of scholars would disagree with you. Nowhere in the Bible did it say they lived by lunar cycles. 


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@Stephen
The BIBLE clearly refers to other gods. i.e. "let us go down and confuse their language" Genesis 11:7.  How can a "false god" or "idol" do anything?

"The man has become like us". Genesis 3:22.  Who are the "us"?

Listen carefully.......................The Trinity. 

Tell me, why would your god say on the one hand "do not make a covenant " with those you have called " false gods and idols" and on the other say "Thou shalt not revile these gods." Exodus 22:28 ?

You're using a very weird translation for some reason.

Original translation: “Do not blaspheme God[a] or curse the ruler of your people."
So yea.


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@YouFound_Lxam
Ex 22:28 is more complicated than that because the word "elohim" has a variety of meanings. The text reads "don't curse elohim."

This is understood to be a statement EITHER of not cursing God, or not cursing judges.
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@YouFound_Lxam

Tell me, why would your god say on the one hand "do not make a covenant " with those you have called " false gods and idols" and on the other say "Thou shalt not revile these gods." Exodus 22:28 ?

You're using a very weird translation for some reason.

Original translation: “Do not blaspheme God[a] or curse the ruler of your people."

You just cannot help yourself can you? Its not MY translation you bible dunce. It is directly from your own preferred BIBLE!

Exodus 22:28  King James Version  28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.




The BIBLE clearly refers to other gods. i.e. "let us go down and confuse their language" Genesis 11:7.  How can a "false god" or "idol" do anything?

"The man has become like us". Genesis 3:22.  Who are the "us"?

In the midst of the gods he holds judgment.” Psalm 82,   Who are these gods that the lord "sat in the midst of"?




YouFound_Lxam wrote:  I presume I will probably need to do research on some of the questions that come up, but nonetheless I will try to answer them, one way or another. #1
"One way or another" 😂.  Yes,   "another way" is by  you trying to deny what is actually written in scripture. As I predicted you would here.>>#16
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@rosends
Ex 22:28 is more complicated than that because the word "elohim" has a variety of meanings. The text reads "don't curse elohim."

This is understood to be a statement EITHER of not cursing God, or not cursing judges.

The KJV suggests both, Rosi.

Exodus 22:28  King James Version.   28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

Nicodemus of the New Testament is said to be such a ruler/judge.


elohim
That would be plural.
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@Stephen
Elohim is a noun that has both singular and plural uses, as determined often by the verb. When there was a no verb to correlate it, the sentence structure and other wirds help determine meaning as well. 
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@Stephen
Exodus 22:28  King James Version  28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
 “Do not blaspheme God[a] or curse the ruler of your people." Exodus 22:28

"let us go down and confuse their language"
Trinity.

The man has become like us"
Trinity. 

 Psalm 82
Original translation says "mighty" not Gods. 
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@YouFound_Lxam

Stephen wrote: Tell me, why would your god say on the one hand "do not make a covenant " with those you have called " false gods and idols" and on the other say "Thou shalt not revile these gods." Exodus 22:28 ?

YouFound_Lxam wrote:You're using a very weird translation for some reason.

Original translation: “Do not blaspheme God[a] or curse the ruler of your people."

Stephen wrote: You just cannot help yourself can you? Its not MY translation you bible dunce. It is directly from your own preferred BIBLE!

Exodus 22:28  King James Version  28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

YouFound_Lxam wrote: “Do not blaspheme God[a] or curse the ruler of your people." Exodus 22:28

So  are you saying then that the king James Bible Version has mistranslated the original verse? And that the KJV is wrong?

Ok, now show us your source/s.



Syephen wrote:  Psalm 82 

King James Version
82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
YouFound_Lxam wrote:  Original translation says "mighty" not Gods. 

So  are you saying then that the king James Bible Version has mistranslated the original verse? And that the KJV is wrong?

Ok, now show us your source/s.


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@YouFound_Lxam
Lunar cycles were and still are a common observation.

Nonetheless, this doesn't explain the contradiction that is the people of Nod.

Which really is at the very start of biblical mythology.

If the beginning is flawed, then what chance the rest?
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@Stephen
So  are you saying then that the king James Bible Version has mistranslated the original verse? And that the KJV is wrong?

Ok, now show us your source/s.


So  are you saying then that the king James Bible Version has mistranslated the original verse? And that the KJV is wrong?

Ok, now show us your source/s.

A psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly;
    he renders judgment among the “gods”:

There were a number of Levites that King David assigned as worship leaders in the tabernacle choir, according to 1 Chronicles 6:31–32. Asaph was one of these men (1 Chronicles 6:39). Asaph’s duties are described in detail in 1 Chronicles 16. According to 2 Chronicles 29:30, both Asaph and David were skilled singers and poets. Asaph is also mentioned as a “seer” or prophet. The “sons of Asaph” are mentioned in 1 Chronicles 25:12 Chronicles 20:14, and Ezra 2:41. The sons of Asaph were likely a guild of skilled poets and singers, modeling themselves musically after Asaph, their master. The church musicians of our day can be considered spiritual “children of Asaph.”

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@zedvictor4
Nonetheless, this doesn't explain the contradiction that is the people of Nod.
Not a contradiction. Just something that is explainable through guesses and ideas, but not completely a contradiction. It is possible that Adam and Eve had kids after Cain and Able, and they grew up and made a nation "Nod" before Able was killed. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Given what we actually know about human biology.

I think that it is more accurate to conclude that it would have been impossible for Adam and Eve to create a separate line of descendants in the land of Nod.

So, Nod and it's people remain an insurmountable contradiction at the very basis of the biblical social hypothesis.


We can use "guesses and ideas" to explain anything.

Therefore you can guess and idea you way out of any biblical contradiction....Thereby not proving anything other than the futility of the exercise.

Notwithstanding, that the biblical hypothesis is a complete contradiction of latterly acquired factual knowledge anyway.
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@zedvictor4

Therefore you [ YouFound_Lxam] can guess and idea you way out of any biblical contradiction....Thereby not proving anything other than the futility of the exercise.

Yep. That just about sums up these hypocrites, Vic lad.

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@zedvictor4

I can't wait until Musk's AI Chatbot reviews the Bible.
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This is from a post on the internet by 
theformerchristian :

I'm reading "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman. In this book, he describes all the contradictions, errors, and problems with the Bible that students learn while in seminary. Now I know why so many previously faithful Christians end up atheists after going to seminary! If you enter as a fully Bible-believing fundamentalist, apparently seminary will shatter your notions that the Bible is the perfect word of God. So my question is, what about the students who, despite having this knowledge, graduate and become evangelical pastors? I can't help but wonder if these ministers are just con artists, because they have been fully educated about this yet that doesn't seem to dissuade them from believing in the Bible or their desire to spread "the word". It's almost as if they are keeping their congregations ignorant on purpose.
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@FLRW
Yep.

But the real deal will be when self programming, self replicating and independently evolving A.I. takes up the gauntlet.


And has to decide upon the value of Deistic Theism:

A MANGOD that mysteriously impregnates a virgin with itself, only to get itself the son nailed to a post and die for other peoples sins. Only to come back to life and ascend to a mysterious place named heaven.......Never to be seen again.

Or the Islamic version with all that feet washing and bobbing up and down on a rug.

Or those Hindu Elephants and Transsexual looking guys with eight arms.


Compared to:

Atheism.




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@FLRW
It's almost as if they are keeping their congregations ignorant on purpose.

 This is exactly what they do, and have done for millennia.  Jehovah's Witness organisation practically admit this. Their view is that higher education is "dangerous".
It seems to me that it is not just JW's that adhere to this practice. We only have to look above at the obfuscation, blatant denials and outright lies in some of the responses from the OP on this thread alone to see that there is a serious lack of education on display.
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@FLRW
I'm reading "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman. In this book, he describes all the contradictions, errors, and problems with the Bible that students learn while in seminary. Now I know why so many previously faithful Christians end up atheists after going to seminary! If you enter as a fully Bible-believing fundamentalist, apparently seminary will shatter your notions that the Bible is the perfect word of God. So my question is, what about the students who, despite having this knowledge, graduate and become evangelical pastors? I can't help but wonder if these ministers are just con artists, because they have been fully educated about this yet that doesn't seem to dissuade them from believing in the Bible or their desire to spread "the word". It's almost as if they are keeping their congregations ignorant on purpose.
Intriguing scenario. But it like many a scenario paints only one side of the coin. 

While it is true that many Christians go to Seminary and come out as atheists or agnostic, there are many others who don't. There are many who are convinced by the truth of the Scriptures and the arguments for it and go on to defend and maintain and assert the faith.  

What Mr Ehrman doesn't express in his booklet is that there are a range of seminaries.  And while there are many very liberal colleges, there are many that are not. There are scholars and academics who don't believe in God and teach their students not to believe in God and or the bible. Yet there are many who have excellent teachers who do believe in God and who are also quite averse to the various issues within the Scriptures. 

I have been to both types of colleges and I have witnessed the agendas of both types of academics.  Thankfully, I went to a believing college first before I went on to do a postgraduate degree in the other.  And while I am sure that the second college probably took the view I was brainwashed in the first college, they admitted me and took my money and then gave me the appropriate qualification upon graduation.  They didn't mark me down or punish me although I expressed views contrary to the typical liberal theological approach.  

And more than that - after graduation I remained at this second college as an academic for some time in a part-time role.  They were happy to permit me to teach their students. 

The other thing that Ehrman doesn't consider is that in most evangelical congregations, the people are reasonably educated.  They have a resistance to authority and don't like the church telling them what to believe.   It's one of the reasons there are so many denominations in the world. Most denominations are evangelical, not liberal. Liberals tend to not care about doctrine focusing on other things. 

So to the question about whether some are conmen? Perhaps some are. But not the evangelical ones. The liberal ones who attend - are wolves in sheep's clothing. 



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@YouFound_Lxam

Stephen wrote:  Psalm 82 

King James Version
82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
YouFound_Lxam wrote:  Original translation says "mighty" not Gods. 

So  are you saying then that the king James Bible Version has mistranslated the original verse? And that the KJV is wrong?

Ok, now show us your source/s.

A psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly;
    he renders judgment among the “gods”:
There you are, and by your own hand too;  "among the gods"  PLURAL!?
But why you have used a psalm/set of psalms that doesn't actually help you disprove the BIBLE's account of there being more than on god is anyone's guess.



There were a number of Levites that King David assigned as worship leaders in the tabernacle choir, according to 1 Chronicles 6:31–32. Asaph was one of these men (1 Chronicles 6:39). Asaph’s duties are described in detail in 1 Chronicles 16. According to 2 Chronicles 29:30, both Asaph and David were skilled singers and poets. Asaph is also mentioned as a “seer” or prophet. The “sons of Asaph” are mentioned in 1 Chronicles 25:12 Chronicles 20:14, and Ezra 2:41. The sons of Asaph were likely a guild of skilled poets and singers, modeling themselves musically after Asaph, their master. The church musicians of our day can be considered spiritual “children of Asaph.”Who was the Asaph mentioned in the Book of Psalms? | GotQuestions.org


 Your above cut and paste is about MEN and their relationship with god or to be more precise, a judgment from God and how the people of the Bible must follow the Law of God,   when what is in dispute here is the FACT that you are denying that the BIBLE itself clearly speaks of their being more than one god. AND, when In fact GOD of the BIBLE himself is speaking of there being more than one god.

You are simply displaying all the ignorance that no doubt you have been taught by peers that are as bible ignorant as yourself. Jesus had a saying for this dumb  practice:

Matthew 15:14 let the blind lead the blind.



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@zedvictor4
Given what we actually know about human biology.

I think that it is more accurate to conclude that it would have been impossible for Adam and Eve to create a separate line of descendants in the land of Nod.

First of all, Adam and Eve did exist. We can prove this using common logic. 
Using common logic of course, we cannot concur what their names were, except from reference to the bible, but we can prove that they existed.

You had a dad, and you dad had a dad, and etc. 
Human population increases as time moves on, so it is safe to assume that the population decreases if we go backwards.
Meaning at some point or another (whether you believe in long term evolution) there were indeed two humans, male and female. 

So, Nod and it's people remain an insurmountable contradiction at the very basis of the biblical social hypothesis.
It's not a contradiction. 
A contradiction is something without a shadow of a doubt disproves or provides evidence to the contrary of a certain story or idea. 
Not knowing the exact way, the people of Nod came to be in their place in the world is not a contradiction. 

There are many tribes in the world, that we don't know how they came to that area or island. Is that a contradiction to history? 

As for where they came from, they obviously came from Adam and Eve, as did all humans. 

We can use "guesses and ideas" to explain anything.

Therefore you can guess and idea you way out of any biblical contradiction....Thereby not proving anything other than the futility of the exercise.
Again, not a contradiction. 


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@Stephen
There you are, and by your own hand too;  "among the gods"  PLURAL!?
Did you not get the Title?

"The gods" in this verse does not represent actual Gods, but is a nameplate for the story. The person who is calling them "the Gods"? Not God, but a human. 

 Your above cut and paste is about MEN and their relationship with god or to be more precise, a judgment from God and how the people of the Bible must follow the Law of God,   when what is in dispute here is the FACT that you are denying that the BIBLE itself clearly speaks of their being more than one god.
Ask any legitimate biblical scholar, or even an atheist scholar who has researched the bible, if the bible speaks of their being more than on God. Clearly you don't understand that words (while have the same definitions) can have different, meanings. 

 AND, when In fact GOD of the BIBLE himself is speaking of there being more than one god.
Again. It was a story about Asaph. He was talking, not God. 


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@YouFound_Lxam

 Your above cut and paste is about MEN and their relationship with god or to be more precise, a judgment from God and how the people of the Bible must follow the Law of God,   when what is in dispute here is the FACT that you are denying that the BIBLE itself clearly speaks of their being more than one god.
Clearly you don't understand that words (while have the same definitions) can have different, meanings. 

Yes. I was wondering when you was going to get around to "definitions" and "meanings" when on the back foot..  This is another default used often by theists, this happens to be a particularly favourite used by that other bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret.

 AND, when In fact GOD of the BIBLE himself is speaking of there being more than one god.
Again. It was a story about Asaph. He was talking, not God. 

Stop it FFS. If there is only one god in the BIBLE as you insist, what had your all singing all dancing god have to be jealous of? Exodus34:14

And when you have the time , could you go through the list below and explains all the "definitions" and all "meanings" and in context to all those verses?


More than one god

In the book of Genesis, God used a plural pronoun to refer to himself (herself, itself, or themselves), implying that there is more than one god up there.

And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
O give thanks unto the God of godsPsalm 136:2


Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve themExodus 20:3-5

Great is our God above all other gods2 Chronicles 2:5
Our Lord is above all godsPsalm 135:5

The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11


And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1
And will punish them.
I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11


For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14
If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.

Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods1 Samuel 6:5And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6
But you must fear God more than all the other gods.

The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25For the Lord ... is to be feared above all godsPsalm 96:4
Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20


Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7
Don't make a covenant with them.  Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their godsExodus 23:32
Don't burn incense to them.I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other godsJeremiah 1:16
Or even mention their names.Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13
Put away your father's gods.Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14
And stay away from the god named Chemosh.  Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24
But don't revile the other gods.Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28

.Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other godsJoshua 24:2
And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13



YouFound_Lxam
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@Stephen
Yes. I was wondering when you was going to get around to "definitions" and "meanings" when on the back foot..  This is another default used often by theists, this happens to be a particularly favourite used by that other bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret.
Are you an alt-account to Brother D? I mean it seems like it. You're the only one who supports him (yourself) and you talk almost exactly like him. 

Besides the point...............what's your point here? 

 If there is only one god in the BIBLE as you insist, what had your all singing all dancing god have to be jealous of? Exodus34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. (Exodus 34:14). 

Brother............you just played yourself. 

And God said, let us make man in our image.
Ok, respond to this one:
God is referencing the Trinity:

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit. 

See? 

And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.
Same deal here.

For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
O give thanks unto the God of godsPsalm 136:2
When you say God of gods, it does not mean other literal gods, it means idols that people make god of their own lives. 

Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve themExodus 20:3-5

Great is our God above all other gods2 Chronicles 2:5
Our Lord is above all godsPsalm 135:5

The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
Same deal here as well. 


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@YouFound_Lxam
Are you an alt-account to Brother D? 

 Nope. And if you believe otherwise. Take it up with moderation.


what's your point here? 


 My point is very clear. The BIBLE clearly states- on many occasions - that there are more than one god in the BIBLE and you, being  blind and ignorant and in blatant denial, point blank repeatedly are denying this BIBLICAL fact .

Tell me you bible dunce; if there are no other gods as mentioned in the BIBLE, who does your god have to be "jealous " of?


"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14
YouFound_Lxam
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@Stephen
 My point is very clear. The BIBLE clearly states- on many occasions - that there are more than one god in the BIBLE
Plain and simple. It doesn't. 

Tell me you bible dunce; if there are no other gods as mentioned in the BIBLE, who does your god have to be "jealous " of?


"For thou shall worship no other god" means:
Than the Lord their God, the one only living and true God, which was the first command given to the people of Israel, and binding upon all men

"for the Lord whose name is Jealous, [is] a jealous God;" means:
his name and nature answer to one another; he admits of no rival or competitor in worship; he will not give his glory to another god, or one so called, nor his praise to graven images; and in this he is distinguished from all nominal and fictitious gods, who have many joined with them, and are rivals of them, which gives them no concern, because insensible; but it is otherwise with the Lord, who knows the dishonour done him, and resents it, and is as jealous of any worship being given to another, as the husband is of the honour of his marriage bed; for idolatry is spiritual adultery, as is suggested in the following verse.





Stephen
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@YouFound_Lxam

Tell me you bible dunce; if there are no other gods as mentioned in the BIBLE, who does your god have to be "jealous " of?


"For thou shall worship no other god" means:
Than the Lord their God, the one only living and true God, which was the first command given to the people of Israel, and binding upon all men

"for the Lord whose name is Jealous, [is] a jealous God;" means:
his name and nature answer to one another; he admits of no rival or competitor in worship; he will not give his glory to another god, or one so called, nor his praise to graven images; and in this he is distinguished from all nominal and fictitious gods,

 Oh FFS stop it. You have absolutely no BIBLICAL evidence to support the absolute bollocks that you have written above.

Your god makes a clear distinction between other gods and idols. Your all singing all dancing god would have no need to be jealous of either.


YouFound_Lxam  wrote: I presume I will probably need to do research on some of the questions that come up, but nonetheless I will try to answer them, one way or another. #1

 And we can all see that, once again, you have chosen "another" 😂


 


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@YouFound_Lxam
Which version of the bible are you using? And why that version? 
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(#42) Not a contradiction. Just something that is explainable through guesses and ideas, but not completely a contradiction. It is possible that Adam and Eve had kids after Cain and Able, and they grew up and made a nation "Nod" before Able was killed.
Yes, it's "possible," but why should I believe it?
Is there a reason to believe it other than it resolves a contradiction?
To merit belief, shouldn't something be "likely" rather than just "possible"?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Common sense tells us that hominids probably evolved somewhere in Africa.

And that Adam and Eve are a reasonable analogical tale made up a few thousand years ago, or a few hundred thousand years later.

Though the analogical tale is contradictory as I stated.

Artistic licence if you like.