Question for all religions who believe in afterlife

Author: ponikshiy

Posts

Total: 24
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
Question for theists who believe in an afterlife, and some may also be relevant to atheists who believe in an afterlife.


1. Does God want you to become a cult leader and commit mass suicide?

2. Does God want you to murder your entire family when things get tough to spare them the pain of this life?

3 does God want you to live a life that sucks by avoiding fun things like orgies or tattoos or pork all because the next life will make the shitty life you have all worth it? 
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,591
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@ponikshiy

Your Afterlife will be the same as your Beforelife.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
1. Does God want you to become a cult leader and commit mass suicide?
Well, probably not. I am not one of those who condemn suicides tho. I understand that life is too painful for some people.


2. Does God want you to murder your entire family when things get tough to spare them the pain of this life?
I dont have children, so I guess they are already saved from pain.


3 does God want you to live a life that sucks by avoiding fun things like orgies or tattoos or pork all because the next life will make the shitty life you have all worth it?
Pork? I literally find all meat disgusting.

Tattoos? I dont care about tattoos.

Orgies? Well, I cry while I masturbate. Thats just as good.

Is it worth it? Not sure. I am still trying to figure out why God created me.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
Your Afterlife will be the same as your Beforelife
I dont remember what my beforelife was like. Maybe it was good, but I dont remember it.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,591
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

The increase in population shows that there is no Beforelife. A Beforelife and an Afterlife would require a constant population.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
I dont think thats true. Person can move to Canada, therefore increasing Canada's population. That doesnt mean person didnt exist before moving to Canada.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,591
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

6000 years ago the Worlds' population was 2, now it is 8 billion.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
Bible explained the entire bloodline of humans much before science. Thats why I dont believe in science.
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Your Afterlife will be the same as your Beforelife
Is that the story you tell to make yourself comfortable with non existence? 
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,591
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@ponikshiy

. Does God want you to become a cult leader and commit mass suicide?
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
There is no God. 

I was just pointing out your coping mechanism for dealing with death. It is not only theists that use silly coping mechanisms. 
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Thing is.

Cain buggered off to Nod and fathered a line of descendants.

Who was the Mother?


zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ponikshiy
Death is easy.

Dying is the difficult bit.
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
I guess physically it's easy. Better to be dying than dead though.  

"Death is not painful" is a cope that distracts from thoughts of non existence though. 
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ponikshiy
In my experience.

In the end people succumb to death quite freely.



But for sure, in the run up to death the thought of non-existence might be difficult to deal with.


And I would suggest that most folk instinctively know that there is no continuation of self awareness.

Which is not to say that there is definitely no residual capability.

It is stated that DNA can last for 6.8 million years.


ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
And I would suggest that most folk instinctively know that there is no continuation of self awareness.
Correct and this awareness occurs as a child and the child starts coping with the existential terror. 

However even people who consciously know this still are developing certain copes. 

Cope 1. It is like sleeping 

No, you exist when you sleep

Cope 2. It is nothingness

Incorrect, it is non existence you are not floating in blackness. 

Cope 3. It is as if you weren't born yet

This is created as a way to help people cope with impending non existence by seeing it like the past. While it is technically true,, the statement attempts to cope with the existential terror, but since the non e xistence of the future is a threat while the non existence of the past never was, than it is a false comfort. 


You might be wondering.  WHT to do if every popular way of coping causes these intellectual blindspots that harm us.

The answer is to constantly remind yourself of the existential terror. Drop the copes, stop the thought stopping techniques at least until they become necessary to avoid paralysis and panic attacks. 

Many people form death groups that meet once a week to discuss and contemplate death. This, if it is within your power to form or join such a group, should be done.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,591
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@ponikshiy

The purpose of life is to make as much money as possible and to have as much sex as possible. And no, i am not a Trump.
ponikshiy
ponikshiy's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 604
3
3
6
ponikshiy's avatar
ponikshiy
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
The purpose of life is to make as much money as possible and to have as much sex as possible
Correct
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
Yes. I think the same way. But according to Deepak Chopra, the reencarnation is in reality a sort of recycling of the vital energy the person has during his life, because energy is neither created nor destroyed, but only transformed.
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@ponikshiy
1. Does God want you to become a cult leader and commit mass suicide?
No.

2. Does God want you to murder your entire family when things get tough to spare them the pain of this life?
No.

3 does God want you to live a life that sucks by avoiding fun things like orgies or tattoos or pork all because the next life will make the shitty life you have all worth it? 
This is a complex question that needs to be broken down to make sense and for us to provide an answer.  It is also a leading question. 

It assumes that how we live in this life is relevant for the next life. 
It assumes that doing things like getting tattoos, having orgies, and pork are fun things. 
It assumes that God desires people to have sucky lives. 
It assumes that anything in this life is comparable to the next one. 

Since this is addressed to me as someone who believes in the next life, and not to someone else who believes in the next life, I make the following observations. 

How we live in this life is dependent upon our beliefs in this life.  I suggest that although it is often argued that people in this life do or don't do certain things in order to get a better life next, this is a false view.  It may well be that some people do think like that and try to live their lives such as to give them the appearance or the feeling of a chance for a better next life.  Yet, this is self-delusion. 

The way we live in this life is entirely dependent upon our current beliefs.  If we believe that good works will get us to heaven, we will try and do good works. If we don't believe that good works will get us to heaven, we may well still do good works if we think good works are a good thing. Atheists for example, at least some of them, do good works not for heaven, but because they think doing good works is a good thing. Also, probably because they are hedging their bets. Just in case they are wrong, and if they do more good works than bad, they figure a Good and just God wouldn't reject them or send them to Hell. Nevertheless, they still live in this life based on their beliefs.

The Christian Protestant Position is that good works are irrelevant to salvation. How we live in this life will be shaped by what we believe. Yet, it doesn't make one iota to the destiny we face. It is our relationship with God that determines our destiny, not how we live our lives. Of course, our lives will reflect what our relationship with God is like. If we have a good relationship, then our actions will be more healthy and if we don't have a good relationship, then our actions will reflect whatever we choose to believe. Hence the wide variety of people on the earth with such diverse views. 

The second assumption is simply preferences built on what we believe is fun or not fun.  I think life is more than just about having fun. Fun is fine. But since my relationship with God is important to me, then I am more inclined to do those things he desires of me.  In the OT tattoos were forbidden for Jewish people. The reason was that at the time such tattoos were a sign of ownership to slave owners, pirates and to foreign gods. In the NT tattoos are not forbidden since the law no longer applies in the way it did in the OT. In the NT Christ opened the doors and let more than the Jews enter. He gave Gentiles the right as well. Hence OT Jewish laws did not apply to the New Covenant.  

Personally, I don't have a tattoo. Probably because I am squeamish and don't want the pain.  Also they are very hard to take off. And if the artist makes a mistake they are stuck for ever. Furthermore, have you ever seen how disgusting even good tattoos look on old people? Getting a tattoo is not sinful. It's not against the law of God in the NT.  But is it fun? I think it is a preference. And that I have had plenty more fun without it. Besides these days, it makes me cool not to have a tattoo. I am unique. Everyone else has one. 

Orgies were forbidden in the OT and also in the NT. Marriage is between a male and female and not polygamy. One partner. Sexual behaviour outside of the marriage is forbidden. It is sinful.  But your suggestion that orgies are fun is simply a presumption on your part. I hate the idea personally. I wouldn't find it fun at all. I accept some people might find it fun, but mostly males. Most females I have met who have been involved in orgies do so because they want to fit in and look cool. I have had many come to me afterwards and regretted what they were doing and had done. Some had all sorts of STDs - others had been ripped and hurt. Most not respected. Of course there are always going to be some that like it. Men, at least some men, think it is cool. But not everyone thinks it is fun. It's interesting if you read the NT letter to the Corinthians, the church in that time had people who were involved in orgies. Corinth of course was the sex capital of the world at the time. Some of them would be having orgies during church.  Pretty bizzarre stuff.  But let me say, it's not the unforgivable sin. The important thing is to get your relationship with God right, and then your behaviour will start to reflect your beliefs. 

Pork of course was forbidden to Jews in the OT. In the NT Peter was told things had changed since Jesus came to break down the walls so that Gentiles could enter the covenant. And along with this was permission to eat pork. So in the NT pork is fine. I'm not sure whether it is fun or not fun. But it tastes pretty good to me, so far as it is a pig that has lived pretty much on the range as opposed to in a shed. 

Your third assumption is well just an assumption. I take the view that the purpose of humanity is to worship God and to enjoy him forever. In other words, God wants us to enjoy life here in this present time and in the future.  The best way to enjoy life is in a relationship with God and enjoying the benefits of that relationship. God doesn't want people to have sucky lives. It is just that he knows the best way to have a good life and many people don't agree with God's view. Adam and Eve didn't like it - so they ate the fruit. They wanted to do it themselves and look what that did for them.  Prior to that time, they lived in a beautiful garden, naked, with beautiful people and lots of brilliant things. After that, after they decided to do things their own way, rejecting God's way, they. got a desert to live in. They had to wear animal clothes and leaves. And they had to work with thistles and endure pain and all sorts of crazy things.  Me, I can't go back to the garden because of their blockhead desire to want to have fun.  And ironically most people who like fun without the rules end up in prison for some time. Whether that be with fall cement walls, or depression, or drugs, or trapped in a violent relationship or whatever.

And finally, the next life - whether it be heaven or hell. Neither are comparable to where we are now. Heaven is much better. Think of the Garden -it's a glimpse of what we know Heaven will be like. And Hell. think of the misery of a prison cell.  Hey that's where all the fun people will be. In a prison.  Having fun. Or at least they think they are. 

But getting there has got nothing to do with how you act today. It's about your relationship with God.   That's the important thing - well for a protestant Christian anyways. 
TheMorningsStar
TheMorningsStar's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 398
2
3
7
TheMorningsStar's avatar
TheMorningsStar
2
3
7
1. Does God want you to become a cult leader and commit mass suicide?
No.
"For a God, if he truly be a God, has no wants or needs; these are miserable tales of the poets." ~Euripides
"If therefore we grant that the Gods are the leaders of the whole of things, and that their providence extends to all things, since they are good, and possess every virtue, how is it possible they should neglect the felicity of the objects of their providential care?" ~Proclus
The Gods have no wants or needs. They look after us because it is right to do so, and they are perfectly virtuous. Part of that is something akin to hoping that we also pursue the path of virtue, for if you have a duty to look after someone it is natural for the goal to be for that person to become a virtuous person. If the Gods are to want for anything, it is for us to pursue the virtues because it is right to do so (rather than because they might want us to).
Aristotle makes it clear in Nicomachean Ethics that suicide is against virtue, and thus is not something we should pursue.

2. Does God want you to murder your entire family when things get tough to spare them the pain of this life?
No, murder is against virtue, and so for the reasons above it is not something we should pursue.

3 does God want you to live a life that sucks by avoiding fun things like orgies or tattoos or pork all because the next life will make the shitty life you have all worth it? 
Pursuing hedonistic pleasures can, at times, run contrary to virtue, and thus we should not pursue them.
So tattoos, depends on what of and why.
Pork, nothing wrong with it normally.
Orgies? That seems likely to run into issues in regards to virtue.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@TheMorningsStar
Tradesecret wrote:  But your suggestion that orgies are fun is simply a presumption on your part. I hate the idea personally.

 This from the man that claims to have "sexually experimented in all kinds of ways" and that also  claims to be a Pastor to a congregation of "over 300 worshipers" and "a Chaplain to his counties Armed Forces".
 😂
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
So its like,  what package did you go with. 

{  Package.. #1.  }
Live your entire life in accordance with god.     =    Awesome  Afterlife.

Or.

{  Package..#2.  }
Live your life with no ummmmm, no to very little  attention put to god.   =    very very Bad afterlife. 
Something along thoes lines. 

Sooooooooo , This  "afterlife" thing.       
How long does it last ? 

If the answer is,  an eternity.  
Then how long is an eternity.  ( i ask this because when it comes to christians and " time "  alotments and shit , they are not to be taken as actully times and numbers unless otherwiswe in stipulated. )

No but . 
Not only could no one,  not no how,    possible know what happens when ya die. 
The christians and the rest go into GREAT SPECIFIC DETAILS. 
And i myself  think thats rude.    As obviously its false,  
Well i mean. 
Its fucking far fetched,  from the absolute nothingness that can obtained about , " what happens when ya die " 

IiiiiiiiI think. 

Although, ,  Nana's  and moms go to heaven , this i know.

P.s. i dare  you to tell me that my nana didn't go to heaven. 

29 days later

Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@ponikshiy
No times three.