Taiwan is china

Author: Vegasgiants

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ADreamOfLiberty
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@Vegasgiants
A exampke that is not relevant today
That's what the British said when comparing the Boston Tea Party to the revolt of Syracuse.

History burns away our false idols and arbitrary delusions.
Vegasgiants
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@ADreamOfLiberty
OK

But taiwan is still china
zedvictor4
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@Vegasgiants
China is Planet Earth.

A tiny speck of cosmic dust coated with organic scum.
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@zedvictor4
That's nice.  Nothing to do with this thread though
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@Vegasgiants
What is noteworthy is that Taiwan has a growing pro China political party, suggesting independent autonomy in the future is far from certain.
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@Greyparrot
They can grow all they want but we won't recognize them
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@Vegasgiants
Pro Taiwan party (DPP) actually lost a lot of seats last election.


But I agree, even if they grew, we wouldn't defy the One China Policy that we created long ago.
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@Vegasgiants
Well.

Everything to do with this thread in terms of global social evolution.

And the necessity or unnecessity of.

Assessed at a moment in time we refer to as 2023

Or if you want to narrow it down, 30/6/2023.

Because that's all we can do

No time machine.


The evolution of matter

Upon a tiny speck of cosmic dust

Within a fragile bubble.

At the mercy of the GODSTAR.


8 Billion clever organisms.

But not clever enough to co-operate.
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@zedvictor4
Uh.....OK


But Taiwan is still china

18 days later

Pevensie
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@Vegasgiants
First, what do you mean by "China"? If you mean the People's Republic of China, then Taiwan is not China since the the Republic of China is the de facto government of Taiwan. In fact the New York University Law Review states "under international law Taiwan merits recognition as an independent state and as such is already a de facto state."(www.nyulawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NYULawReview-75-2-Carolan.pdf)
Vegasgiants
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@Pevensie
Oooooh a defacto state.

How cute

We don't recognize Taiwan as a country 

Taiwan is china
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@Vegasgiants
The United States also does not recognize the PRC's claim to Taiwan. The U.S. has committed to repel any invasion of Taiwan by the PRC.
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@Pevensie
Uh....no.  We have no ambassador to Taiwan and no agreement to use troops to defend Taiwan 


We sell them arms only
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@Vegasgiants
Yes, we do sell arms to Taiwan. What is Taiwan then? The U.S. cannot sell arms to nothing.
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@Pevensie
They are certainly not a country we recognize 

We sold arms to the Afghanistan under Russian attack and to the contras in Nicaragua 
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@Vegasgiants
The U.S. not officially recognizing Taiwan as a country does not mean Taiwan is not a country (in fact you just referred to Taiwan as a country).
The U.S. not officially recognizing Taiwan as a country does not mean Taiwan is part of the PRC.
Vegasgiants
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@Pevensie
So it's kind of like a fake country.   Lol


Are you willing to die defending Taiwan?
Lemming
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@Vegasgiants
If it's people are willing to fight,
And America has obligations there,
If America believes in freedom,

Seems a reasonable policy,
Though I am a bit disinclined to die for 'anyone,
Some moments could occur in life, where I'd be willing.

Also the chip industry, good to keep open,
And discouraging aggression by powerful nations that don't have American interests.
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@Lemming
That act does not obligate us to send one soldier to fight for taiwan
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@Vegasgiants
I am not willing to die to defend Turkey, although Turkey is a country. My willingness to die in defense of country does not effect that country's legitimacy. 
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@Pevensie
Turkey is also in nato.  You don't need to defend it.  The US military will though

Just not Taiwan 
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Can you explain why Taiwan is not a country without mentioning any other country or international organization (e.g. UN, NATO, EU)?
Lemming
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@Vegasgiants
I agree,
"The TRA does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress."

But it doesn't mean the USA can't or won't send military aid.

Nor does it prevent 'individuals from fighting for Taiwan.

As soldiers once fought for China.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

I am curious though,
Why you so vehemently deny Taiwan is a country?
Vegasgiants
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@Lemming
Of course we will send military aid.  Just not soldiers.  Ever

I deny Taiwan is a country the same way I deny the world is flat


I just deny lies when I see them 
Lemming
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@Vegasgiants
I think sending soldiers could be a reasonable response,

Appeasement was not shown as a great policy, in WW2 towards Germany.
And even 'then, the cowardice and immorality, of abandoning other countries was understood.

Eh, depends how you define a country,
From my perspective, your definition is bewilderingly narrow, is looking at situation with blinders on.

Eh, 'could be that you 'just view the issue as undisputable, and wish to state such, as other interpretations bother you.
Though I've theories I think more likely.
. .
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@Lemming
Reasonable to you....because you won't be going

I don't think we should send Americans to die for a place we don't even recognize 

This is how you define a country 

The UN recognizes it
NATO recognizes it
Most of the world recognizes it and sends ambassadors and embassies to it

Not true for Taiwan 
Lemming
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@Vegasgiants
Countries existed before the UN, before NATO,
Have existed in places where other countries did not want to identify a country, as a country,
Have existed even without other countries having embassies in it.

You're talking a 'specific legal recognition,
And ignoring 'other definitions.
. . .

It doesn't matter if 'I don't want to go,
There hasn't been a 'single war in American history, that I think I'd like to go,
. .
'Yet, many of those wars have been vital for American independence, American interests, Safety, Security.
Vegasgiants
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@Lemming
Great then its a country because it says its a country

Hawaii has a group that claim hawaii is a free and independent country

By your measure Hawaii is a country too

Yes vital interests....but not worth risking YOUR life over but fine to risk other American lives over.   Got it
Lemming
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@Vegasgiants
From a certain point of view, certainly.

Definitions, ideas, are often multifaceted and vague.
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@Lemming
From a certain point of view Ukraine belongs to Russia 

Everybody has a point of view....it doesn't make it true