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@TWS1405_2
Sowell is entitled to his opinion but it's all he has
If black culture was the problem rich black kids would do more crimes
They don't
Sorry
Blacks far more likely to commit crimes against Whites and Hispanics than the inverse
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Total:
185
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@Vegasgiants
Sowell is entitled to his opinion but it's all he hasIf black culture was the problem rich black kids would do more crimesThey don'tSorry
Sowell is a scholar and an expert on the subject. It’s not a subjective opinion, his are objective factually accurate opinions.
Wealthy individuals are not constrained by an outdated culture, they’re above and beyond it. It’s those stuck behind in that culture who are the problem.
Again, non-sequitur argument.
Not sorry.
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@TWS1405_2
He is certainly entitled to an opinion.
To say he us the final word on the subject is laughable
You make my point. Wealthy individuals don't need to commit crimes. Poor people do
It's poverty
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@Vegasgiants
>@<<<TWS1405_2>>>He is certainly entitled to an opinion.To say he us the final word on the subject is laughable
Strawman. I never said he had the final word on the subject.
You make my point. Wealthy individuals don't need to commit crimes. Poor people doIt's poverty
I didn’t make your point. You didn’t even make a point.
A non-sequitur is a logical fallacy. Not a fact based argument.
Where did you matriculate to earning your criminology and criminal justice degree? I went to Portland State University (06-08), I then worked for a county sheriff for a few years before moving to the DAs Office.
Poverty is only a symptom of the larger problem: black culture. Change the culture, get out of the poverty.
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@TWS1405_2
Good. Then Sowells opinion is noted and dismissed. I have already posted evidence of poverty being the biggest determinant if crime.
Unless you were a forensic researcher on crime and culture your personal experience is anecdotal
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@Vegasgiants
>@<<<TWS1405_2>>>Good. Then Sowells opinion is noted and dismissed.
Yeah, cause it refutes your ignorant argument. Typical intellectual coward move.
I have already posted evidence of poverty being the biggest determinant if crime.
Two links (second not even hyperlinked) ≠ evidence of anything.
Unless you were a forensic researcher on crime and culture your personal experience is anecdotal
ROTFLMAO!!!
Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you truly that dense!
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@TWS1405_2
And you offered a single opinion of a single man
No research
No evidence
Your claim is dismissed
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@Vegasgiants
Thomas Sowell provides the only objective evidence I need to discredit your nonsensical sophomoric banality on the matter. Not to mention my academic and professional experiences as well (gives me more credibility). Of which you possess neither. Hence, you lack credibility, and clearly integrity.
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@TWS1405_2
Oh look another opinion
And look.....it is dismissed
I posted actual evidence....not unsupported claims like you. Lol
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@Vegasgiants
I posted actual evidence....not unsupported claims like you. Lol
There’s that delusions of grandeur again.
Those two citations, the first is outdated and the second is an opinion piece. Not evidence.
Your intellectual cowardice knows no bounds.
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@TWS1405_2
Perhaps a psychiatrist could help you. Lol
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@Vegasgiants
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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
Perhaps a psychiatrist could help you. Lol
Ad hominem fallacy. Typical intellectual coward move.
PS. Kaitlyn already proved you wrong.
The Brookings Institute, a Washington, D.C.-based research group, has published a study that demonstrates, through empirical data, what many have long suspected: That extreme poverty leads to increased crime rates.
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@Vegasgiants
The Brookings Institute, …
All opinions just like Sowell’s.
Dismissed.
Here end of the lesson.
Research. A peer reviewed study. Lol
The Brookings’ data showed that, “In almost all states, between 40 and 50 percent of the prison population grew up in families in the bottom quintile [20 percent] of the income distribution.”
The Brookings’ data showed that, “In almost all states, between 40 and 50 percent of the prison population grew up in families in the bottom quintile [20 percent] of the income distribution.”
How does one escape that 20%?
By completing high school, obtaining substantially gainful employment, and getting married before having children.
The “acting white” accusation kept a lot of young black kids from succeeding in high school, much less graduating.
Gangsta rap was highly influential.
Black girls with no daddy looked for one in other black boys/men whom they were promiscuous with.
Out of wedlock pregnancy rates jumped from 22% in the early to mid 1900s to over 70% post civil rights.
Black girls/women were taught by their mothers that they don’t need a man in their life, which made it easier for them to marry the government (welfare).
Black boys joined gangs and were raised by their peers, not a father. Which made it easier to victimize their own people in the hood they lived in. They had no respect for others, let alone themselves.
These series of choices to engage in or be influenced by is what black culture does to young black boys and girls. It’s because of these piss poor choices that keeps them in poverty. And it is because of those choices that lead them directly into the problems they face by their own undoing.
It is NOT [just] poverty that leads people into criminal behavior, it is the series’s of choices made that keeps them in poverty that leads them into criminal behavior. And all those choices begin in the home. Fatherless children have a higher propensity to be poor and engage in criminal behavior. Again, it is NOT poverty. It’s culture.
Indeed, according to the study, boys who grew up in families within the bottom 10 percent of income distribution were 20 times more likely to be incarcerated by their early 30s than those who lived in families with the highest income level.
Clearly income is the most important factor in crime
Clearly income is the most important factor in crime
You just proved you are not being obtuse on purpose, you truly are that fucking dense.
Someone is very upset. It happens when they get frustrated that their argument has failed. Lol
The study reported that the highest rates of incarceration “are concentrated in urban centers and certain rural areas, like American Indian reservations,” whereas in other, more prosperous neighborhoods the crime rate is “essentially zero.”
Clearly income is the most important factor in crime
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@Vegasgiants
I would need to see proof for that claimThis is also rich coming from someone who rattles off this with literally zero evidence: "The poor, urban, low intelligence, unemployed, and poorly educated also commit the most crimes".Anyway, it's a big write-up that goes well beyond the scope of this thread. In super short paraphrasing, you can look at facts like (1) Rich Black kids are more likely to go to prison than poor White kids Race, Wealth and Incarceration: Results from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth | SpringerLink , (2) Blacks have lower IQ than most other racial groups (and IQ is mostly genetic), (3) Blacks have lower self-control than other racial groups A gradient of childhood self-control predicts health, wealth, and public safety (pnas.org) , (4) Blacks have higher testosterone (and higher testosterone is linked to aggression and crime) Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta‐analysis (wiley.com) , (5) The MAO-A Gene (Warrior Gene -- linked to crime) and the different frequencies in which races express this gene https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/maoa-race-and-crime/, and (6) Blacks having higher Melanin/melanotropin than other races (and either melanotropin or melanin causes more aggression) RETRACTED: Do pigmentation and the melanocortin system modulate aggression and sexuality in humans as they do in other animals? - ScienceDirect .I could expand upon this and make it 5000 words, justifying every premise in detail, too.[No response]
You've dropped all of this, so I'll just assume you agree that race is a significant predictor of crime.
Yes, there is a correlation between poverty and crime. No, it's not that high. Neither of your newspaper articles (not studies) demonstrate a casual relationship between poverty and crime.
Meanwhile, there was a study which performed analysis of over half a million Swedish people looked into income levels and future criminality. They looked specifically at crime rates between poor kids who stayed poor into adulthood, and poor kids who become wealthier as they aged. For both groups, the criminality rates were virtually the same. This shows that poverty isn't a cause of crime, but rather a correlation http:/bjp.rcpsych.org/content/early/2014/08/14/bjp.bp.113.136200.abstract
During the roaring 20's (i.e. economic boom and great wealth generation), crime increased, but as soon at the Great Depression took hold, crime rates actually went down (the opposite of what your hypothesis predicts) #2 - Homicide in the United States, - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library Crime and the Great Recession | The Great Recession Effects (city-journal.org)
None of the effect sizes between crime and poverty could be considered strong or even moderate. A meta-analysis of 153 studies found the effect size to be .253 (weak correlation) with only 59% of the studies being statistically significant Assessing Macro-Level Predictors and Theories of Crime: A Meta-Analysis on JSTOR
You can even look at the poorer Eastern European countries and see that their crime rates aren't exploding off the charts. Meanwhile, the richer parts of Africa and South America are experiencing a far bit of crime.
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@Savant
so many more crimes against Whites and HispanicsBlack people actually mostly commit crimes against other Black people, not Whites and Hispanics in particular. They commit more crimes in general, which you probably already know, and the causes for this are debated.Are Black people committing 34 times more crimes than White people per capita? No (they're not even close to equaling total White crime rates, when they'd need to be multiple times higher than White's crime rates for your explanation to be justified): FBI — Table 43Since they are not, they are committing more crimes against White people than should be accounted for by their increased overall crime rate.[Dropped by Savant]
I'll just assume you agree.
I assume you will use this to support your conclusion that Black people are genetically wired to be more violent. But there are simply too many societal factors to control for all of themThe OP specifically talks about crime, not necessarily violence (but can include violence).But anyway, which factors don't you think we can control for?[Not answered by Savant]
I'll just assume you have no answer and that we can control for the relevant variables.
"It has recently come to our attention that the following article published in PAID contains sufficient errors and misrepresentation to require our attention, review and action"Hence, "Retracted."
The retraction was based a lot on ideological grounds, rather than factual grounds. For example, one of the reasons it was retracted (not by the authors, btw), was because they cited Richard Lynn's work -- not a valid reason.
If you think any of the reasons for retraction are valid, feel free to argue them.
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@IlDiavolo
Crime is a social phenomenon, and as such it should be addressed from a social and even a cultural perspective. Genetics has little to do with it.
As for your quest, I think blacks kill more whites because of the hatred against whites. People talk about racism against blacks all the time, which is ok, but they forget the racism against whites, which is neglected by all the society.
It's plausible without being proven. Savant's explanation of differing crime rates fails to explain the 34 times difference.
Instead of only supporting the "black lives matter" movement, there should be a sort of "reconciliation between blacks and whites" movement. If the society tips the scales only in favour of blacks as the media does it today, you'll have these results.
I don't think so. We've already tried all this stuff for over a century and the problems have only worsened.
Blacks and Whites need to be separated. Give Blacks and Whites some good land and let's move past the utter disaster of attempting to create a sustainable multi-racial country.
Someone is very upset. It happens when they get frustrated that their argument has failed. Lol
Psychological projection.
The study reported that the highest rates of incarceration “are concentrated in urban centers and certain rural areas, like American Indian reservations,” whereas in other, more prosperous neighborhoods the crime rate is “essentially zero.”
Your denialism knows no bounds.
Clearly income is the most important factor in crime
Nope. Disproven over and over by myself and Kaitlyn.
Your intellectual cowardice and denialism is duly noted. You ARE the poster child for the Dunning Kruger Effect.
[Dropped by Savant]
I said "Black people actually mostly commit crimes against other Black people" which was not disproven.
[Not answered by Savant]
If we knew what the causes were, then we could control for them. Criminologists have discovered some causes of crime, and I suspect they will discover more causes in the years to come. You can't control for the effects of some historical event like slavery unless you know exactly what those causes are.
The retraction was based a lot on ideological grounds, rather than factual grounds.
"The correspondent and geneticist each comment that the genes responsible for skin pigmentation in humans are completely different to the genes in these animals. It therefore makes no sense to extrapolate from these animal studies to humans."
"As required of a review paper, the authors should have been aware of a literature showing that black-white differences in the best-available measure of psychopathy are negligible (Skeem et al., 2004)"
"Rushton & Templer ignored obvious social and educational explanations for higher levels of violence, HIV infection etc. in African and Caribbean countries"
"Rushton & Templer made several errors when interpreting the results summarised by Ducrest et al."
Someone is very upset they lost this debate to me. Lol
Someone is very upset they lost this debate to me. Lol
Delusions of grandeur.
It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture (This addresses the income disparity)
Most of the crimes were committed by some white people.
Hitler, Stalin, Two world wars, colonizations, holocaust, extermination of native americans...
Hundreds of millions killed.
It seems that some white people, despite being a minority in the world, have committed the greatest amount of crimes. Only some asians could somewhat come close to all the horrible things some white people have done.
What must be noted is that when some white person commits the crime, it is not registered as a crime. For example, most of the rapists are white, but most rapists never get caught.
Black people were oppressed even after slavery ended. We all know how they were forced into poverty and how they had less rights than others. They were treated badly for so long.
I would like to see all white people accepting black people as friends, but some white people still want oppression, as demonstrated by certain woman here, who thinks that black people should be forcefully relocated. Just a reminder, forceful relocation was part of Hitler's plan too. Therefore, we see that Hitler's ideas are still present among some white people, which implies that oppression of black people still exists.
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@Savant
[Dropped by Savant]I said "Black people actually mostly commit crimes against other Black people" which was not disproven.
That wasn't the point of contention.
The point you implied was that the Black on White violence is explained by Black's greater levels of crimes. I counterargued that the 34x isn't explained by your explanation, because total instances of Black crime would have to be multiple times higher than total instances of White crime (when it's only 1/3 of it). That's the point of contention you dropped.
[Not answered by Savant]If we knew what the causes were, then we could control for them. Criminologists have discovered some causes of crime, and I suspect they will discover more causes in the years to come. You can't control for the effects of some historical event like slavery unless you know exactly what those causes are.
When you control for relevant variables (poverty, single parent households, lead exposure etc.), Black's crime rate pretty much remains untouched. We already know that there are multiple genetic features, that Blacks are prominent in, which lead to higher rates of aggression and violence, too Blacks far more likely to commit crimes against Whites and Hispanics than the inverse (debateart.com) . There is very clearly a genetic drive which causes crime.
There's no reason to think that slavery has any impact on Black crime rates to a statistically significant degree, especially since you haven't produced a single study showing any correlation/causation.
The retraction was based a lot on ideological grounds, rather than factual grounds."The correspondent and geneticist each comment that the genes responsible for skin pigmentation in humans are completely different to the genes in these animals. It therefore makes no sense to extrapolate from these animal studies to humans."
They didn't show that these genes were "completely different" in a way which would discredit the argument. It's just a bare assertion. Furthermore, just so we understand the size of the finding: darker skin has been found to predict higher levels of aggression in over 200 species of animals. That's a lot of different kinds of animals.
We already know that mere skin color in humans correlates with crime at 0.55 IQ, skin color, crime, HIV/AIDS, and income in 50 U.S. states - ScienceDirect . That's ana awfully high correlation for something that a lot of people think has no connection.
"As required of a review paper, the authors should have been aware of a literature showing that black-white differences in the best-available measure of psychopathy are negligible (Skeem et al., 2004)"
The very next sentence your document says, "They instead relied on an analysis by Lynn (2002) which has been extensively criticized (Skeem et al., 2003; Zuckerman, 2003)."
Richard Lynn contended the complete opposite, so Skeem et al's findings haven't been shown, especially since they outright dismissed Lynn's findings based on him being "extensively criticized" by two whole papers (i.e. not debunked; not demonstrably false. Just "criticized").
Looks pretty ideologically motivated to me.
"Rushton & Templer ignored obvious social and educational explanations for higher levels of violence, HIV infection etc. in African and Caribbean countries"
What, not going to school makes people commit crimes? xD
HIV causes people to commit armed robbery? hahahaha
There's no doubt that the environment is going to impact crime rates, but these explanations referred to here are laughably bad.
"Rushton & Templer made several errors when interpreting the results summarised by Ducrest et al."
Lets look at the full quote: "Rushton & Templer made several errors when interpreting the results summarised by Ducrest et al. Although relatively minor, these errors consistently favoured their genetic thesis."
Firstly, the "errors" aren't explained at all, nor are they shown to impact the findings in the paper. Secondly, they even admit that the "errors" were "relatively minor".
They really haven't given us serious reasons to discredit the findings of the paper.
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@Best.Korea
Most of the crimes were committed by some white people.Hitler, Stalin, Two world wars, colonizations, holocaust, extermination of native americans...Hundreds of millions killed.It seems that some white people, despite being a minority in the world, have committed the greatest amount of crimes. Only some asians could somewhat come close to all the horrible things some white people have done.What must be noted is that when some white person commits the crime, it is not registered as a crime. For example, most of the rapists are white, but most rapists never get caught.Black people were oppressed even after slavery ended. We all know how they were forced into poverty and how they had less rights than others. They were treated badly for so long.I would like to see all white people accepting black people as friends, but some white people still want oppression, as demonstrated by certain woman here, who thinks that black people should be forcefully relocated. Just a reminder, forceful relocation was part of Hitler's plan too. Therefore, we see that Hitler's ideas are still present among some white people, which implies that oppression of black people still exists.
This is a dreadful troll. It is way too obvious.
-3/10 troll attempt. You're making my side look better.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, several important reviews of the literature failed to establish a clear consensus on the relationship between economic conditions and violent crime. The research presented here applies the procedures of meta-analysis to 34 aggregate data studies reporting on violent crime, poverty, and income inequality. These studies reported a total of 76 zero-order correlation coefficients for all measures of violent crime with either poverty or income inequality. Of the 76 coefficients, all but 2, or 97 percent, were positive. Of the positive coefficients, nearly 80 percent were of at least moderate strength (>.25). It is concluded that poverty and income inequality are each associated with violent crime.