Not at all. I am saying there are many progressives that say we shouldn't continue to fund the killing if sending more money delays real peace talks and depletes funds that Americans need.
This doesn't really make any sense. There is no way for peace talks to work at the moment. Russia thinks it is entitled to steal large swaths of Ukraine. Ukraine isn't going to agree to that. Even if the US did cut them off entirely and leave them to die, the conflict would be at best a frozen conflict waiting for it to spark up again. Much more likely, the conflict would continue with bombings and gorilla style attacks for years to come. The only way for there to be peace is for russia to leave Ukraine. And they aren't going to agree to that until they are forced out.
Ukraine is already destroyed from the 2014-present civil war, there isn't much left to save. Reconstruction should be pursued at this point. Concessions made. Killings ended, corruption staved off.
Peace isn't possible as long as russia is still occupying Ukraine. Even if they are forced to accept some style of deal, the war will go on in other means. And at some point, the war would re-start when russia decided it wants more of Ukraine (which they have repeatedly said isn't a real country).
Russia failed to advance past the Donbas. They won't try it again.
They got to the outskirts of Kiev. They still occupy large chunks of Zaporizhzhia and Kerson Oblasts, which they have officially announced are part of Russia. These are not part of the Donbass, but Russia says it is theirs. So saying they won't try to go past Donbass, when they are still going beyond donbass right now is a bit nonsensical.
However, Ukraine has made it clear they want the Donbas back. That isn't going to happen either.
why wouldn't it? Russia just has to lose.
USA is literally funding an endless stalemate to the tune of billions of dollars enriching a massive amount of corrupt people in the USA, Ukraine and Russia...and Americans are paying for all of that. And we are asked to care based on a massive amount of lies about "saving the world"
this is an incredibly short sighted take. Even if we leave out how it is the right thing to do and focus solely on the direct benefit to the US. Russia has made it clear that 1) they want their empire back, and 2) they want a multipolar world where they and the Chinese are equal to the US in power and influence.
These are both terrible things for the US. the Russian empire included multiple members of NATO. The only way for them to get what they want, is to take it from NATO. Which means, at some point, when the US is distracted (like by a Chinese invasion of Taiwan) russia is going to come for "their" land. So conflict with russia is inevitable as long as they think this way. It is MUCH cheaper to have Ukraine fight them than for the US to do it directly. It costs pennies on the dollar compared to the alternative.
2) the US benefits massively from being the worlds only super power. From having the Dollar as the world's reserve currency, to being able to use soft power to get it's way in countless ways. In a world where Russia and China are legitimate rivals to the US, this power is lost. And the costs of that are incalculable.
We did the EXACT same thing in Iraq, and people are just as gullible today as they were in the Bush years.
this is absolutely nothing like Iraq. The US invaded iraq, installed a puppet state with no support from the people, then spent decades fighting insurgents. Ukraine has a democratically elected government that is incredibly popular. They are unified in their defense of their homeland.
If the price of saving one arbitrary corrupt Democracy is this, then a corrupt democracy like that most assuredly isn't worth saving.
lol what? The Ukrainian government certainly has corruption issues, but so does the US government. Saying you should leave the Ukrainian people to be massacred because they have corruption very similar to American corruption, is insane.
Ukraine will never be an American colony, no matter how many billions we toss at it.
no one is suggesting they would be, or should be. What they are is a free democratic state being invaded by an imperialist dictatorship. They can be a strong US ally to contain russian aggression. That is incredibly valuable.
Will the real progressives please stand up for America while there is an America left.
Why would progressives want to leave innocent people to be conquered by their imperialist neighbors? Especially when preventing it so useful and valuable?
