The transgenderism debate

Author: YouFound_Lxam

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@oromagi
LGBTQ  Civil Rights are very deep to me, kid.
Ok. There isn't any rights that LGBTQ people don't have that others do.
So, why is it important to you, if you already won.

 As a student of history, I understand that my life depends on discrediting your call to "eradicate" me and my kind.
False. I am calling to eradicate the promotion of your ideology. Not you or what you personally believe.

  •  Just because you aren't old or bright enough to understand  the destruction such rhetoric inflicts on civil societies, does not mean you get to tell me to chill out regarding the threat you pose.
What was one of the biggest changes in Roman history right before it fell? An influx in homosexuals. 

No, this is what reasoned thought and science does. You said you want to make the argument on the basis of science but those two sources don't have any scientific credibility whatsoever.  
You don't need scientific credibility to define something as an ideology. That was the whole point of providing those sources. Not to prove transgenderism wrong, but prove that it is indeed an ideology. I have repeated this many times, but you don't listen. 

 These groups seek to define Transgenders in order to control transgenders but you can't reasonably claim that people believe an ideology because the people longing to disagree with that idelogogy told you that those people believe that.
Funny, because in my last response, I provided what you asked for. 3 examples of people claiming the ideology that I describe, describes them too. 
I did that just for you. Now in this latests response of yours, I see that you decided not to touch on that anymore. I'll do it again for you.

  • Greene, Puberty Blockers, Cross-Sex Hormones, and Youth Suicide
    • Extremely  well distributed across the Right Wing echo chamber on Twitter, Facebook, reported by FOX News, WSJ, all major right-wing media.
    • Notice that although Greene represent his report as a scientific study, his study was never published or even submitted to any scientific journal, no peer review was ever sought and a freshman in sociology could explain why Greene's report could never pass any peer review.
    • Greene himself has his doctorate in Political Science.  No scientists, particularly medical professionals or biologists were involved in writing this report.  No transgendered people participated in Greene's analysis of transgendered behavior.
      • In short, not fucking science in any sense of the word.  Although Heritage and FOX and Republicans Senators on Twitter all called it Science, that was all just a lie to fool suckers like you.
    • Greene's thesis goes like this, "there are 33 states where doctors are not compelled to seek parental permission before treating a minor, with an incedible amount of variety within those 33 states regarding circumstances.  Those 33 states have seen a 1.6 per 100,000 increase in suicide among ages 12-23 since 2010 and 2010 is when hormone therapies started become widely available, therefore the lack of compulsory parental permission is causing more teen suicide.
      • Never mind the blatant Post Hoc ergo Propter Hoc, Greene never bothers to tell his wide-eyed believers that the AMA and APA consider any kind of hormone treatment or surgery on minors without parental permission unethical and Doctors simply don't provide these treatments to minors without parental permission.  There is no reporting so it may be possible to find one or two outliers but there is ZERO POSSIBILITY that the frequency of incendents could impact the general suicide rate in 12-23 year olds.  Any statistiician could have explained to Heritage that scale of the suggested problem is infinitely small compared to the result Greene irresponsible claims.
      • In 2021 about 1,390  out of 50 million kids aged 6-17 sought puberty blocker care in 2021.  There was not one documented case of a minor receiving puberty blockers without that minor's parent's permission.  Such drugs are expensive and you can't tell me that  the insurance  companies are paying for drugs behind the parent's back.  Of the 282 mastectomies performed  in 2021 on minors with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria all were over 16 years old and all had parent's permission.
    • Put succintly, Greene is blaming teen suicide on a phenomenon  that does not exist: trans teens getting gender affirming treatment without parental permission.
Why is the Heritage Center printing phony scientific reports that couldn't pass peer review by a high school biology class?  To trick gullible fools into thinking there's a problem that can only be solved by voting for Republicans.  
Did you happen to look into Greene's response to these claims?
He explains how the study does back itself up, and how the claims are nothing more than a weak attack. 

Also you replied to like 5% of my last response, so I will assume you agree with the rest of what I said. 


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@Kaitlyn
I didn’t even know the ideology categorization was under any dispute until this thread, which then led me to this article:

“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANSGENDER IDEOLOGY” (sorry for the yelling)

Frankly, I’m not sure why being an ideology (such as democracy— the horror!) is considered so repellent. Too close to being a religion maybe? 
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@Kaitlyn
I didn’t even know the ideology categorization was under any dispute until this thread, which then led me to this article:

“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANSGENDER IDEOLOGY” (sorry for the yelling)
https://www.media-diversity.org/there-is-no-such-thing-as-transgender-ideology/

Frankly, I’m not sure why being an ideology (such as democracy— the horror!) is considered so repellent. Too close to being a religion maybe? 
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
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well-known...

lol.
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@oromagi
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
I can start on the first part, but the second part is dicey, as you are asking for proponents of a concept (ideology) that they deny is the case (again, I don’t know why). So, no, I cannot provide proponents of an ideology when the proponents deny it is an ideology. Now, you can look up transgender activists, and you will find a bunch. Good enough?
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@Greyparrot
Ever get the sneaking suspicion you are being set up?

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@YouFound_Lxam
    • You claim there are"transgender people in real life and spokespersons who claim  that  gender identity is as important as biological sex"
    • Provide three example of transgender spokespeople making this claim.  

  • OK, so 1 and 3 are the same story.  #2 and #3 are behind a pay wall. 
  • An abortion rights activists states in Congressional testimony (for the 100th time that day) a self-identified transman who has not had his tubes tied or other surgery can get pregnant and have a child.  Basic biological fact NOT an ideological statement of any kind.  At no point did Aimee Arrambide state that gender identify is as important as biological sex.  Arrambide simply agreed with you that everybody gets to identify how that want with the results that some people who identify men can and do get pregnant.  Nobody is saying that right to self-identify is as important as biological sex.  They don't even exist in the same category- one is social- a civil right the other is biological.
  • Likewise, Congresswomen Cortez came under fire for using the phrase "Mensturating people" in a tweet.  LIkewise, she simply expained that many people who identify as transmen still get their periods.  Biological fact.  NOT an ideological statement.  There's no importance- some transmen menstruate, some women menstruate.  Not an ideology.
    • What IS an ideology is the American liberty to self-identify however you want.  Most Republicans calls themselves Conservatives although there is a licke to it.  They're wrong.  They're stupid to think so.  But they still have that right.  Most Republicans share that ideology with Transgenders and they don't get to peel off the Transgenders from that right by falsely naming it a separate ideology.
Both of these exampels fail to show a prominent spokesperson expressing the idelology that "gender identity is as important as biological sex"

FAIL

Pages of rhetoric later you are entirely able to explain
  • What Transgender ideology believes?
  • Who believes in Transgender ideology?
  • How can Republicans tell some other group what their ideology is?  An ideology is either voluntary and self-publicized or it is not an ideology.

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@oromagi
An abortion rights activists states in Congressional testimony (for the 100th time that day) a self-identified transman who has not had his tubes tied or other surgery can get pregnant and have a child.  Basic biological fact NOT an ideological statement of any kind.
Trans-people claim that trans-women are women and trans-men are men. 
So according to Trans-people, men can get pregnant. 

Likewise, Congresswomen Cortez came under fire for using the phrase "Mensturating people" in a tweet.  LIkewise, she simply expained that many people who identify as transmen still get their periods.
Ok, in order for these statements to be biologically true, you will have to admit that trans-men are not men and trans-women are not women.

Also, I would like you to reply to my questions and comments that are important instead of just ignoring them:

If someone isn't born with gender dysphoria, can they still identify as transgender? If not, then only people with real gender dysphoria can identify that way proving your point. If yes, then it is a belief or ideology. 

Did you happen to look into Greene's response to these claims?
He explains how the study does back itself up, and how the claims are nothing more than a weak attack. 





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@cristo71
I didn’t even know the ideology categorization was under any dispute until this thread, which then led me to this article:

“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANSGENDER IDEOLOGY” (sorry for the yelling)

Living under a rock as of late? 
And clearly you didn’t look hard enough for info on this ideology. Nor did you thoroughly review the context of the discussion to date. 


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@oromagi
TRUTH#1:  Transgenderism is not an ideology...
And yet when one does a search in any search engine online, you're instantly proven wrong by many, to include those who are experts whereas you're not.
Examples:

Transgenderism is 'ideology masquerading as science': doctor | U.S. News (christianpost.com)
transgenderism is an ideaology at DuckDuckGo
Doctors stand up to transgender ideology | WORLD (wng.org)
Against Transgenderism by National Association of Scholars | NAS
The ideology of transgenderism is so pronounced and so widespread that there is no need to describe it in detail. What occasions a statement from the National Association of Scholars on it are several of the ways that that ideology has disrupted American education at all levels. These include:
Vitriolic attacks on faculty members and medical professionals who dissent from the transgender orthodoxy2
Insisting that faculty members and students divulge their “preferred pronouns” and that others address and refer to people by these pronouns.3
The readiness of competitive sports to permit individuals of one sex to compete in single-sex contests of the opposite sex.4
The designation of gender-inclusive restrooms on campus. Yale, for example, has 332 such designated restrooms created at the reported cost of $8.3 million.5
The insistence that archaeologists and forensic anthropologists cease classifying human skeletal remains as male or female, since we do not know the “gender identification” of the individuals.6
Distortion of the medical school curriculum and consequences for healthcare.7
Why transgender ideology is harmful for children (and everyone) - ERLC
I can go on...and no genetic fallacies (intellectual cowardice move) on your part!!

Every time you say "LGBTQ is not scientific or biological"  you are lying and failing to face the facts as 21st century science has presented them to you.  Here is an excerpt from Scientific American (not a Christian website) article entitled, "Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia"
And yet that is EXACTLY what you do when you make retorts like this, using phony science to justify the mental disorder of gender dysphoria as being normal as American Pie, when it so clearly is NOT!!!!

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@oromagi
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
What purpose does it serve you to constantly ask members to name no less than three well known proponents of the trans ideology? 

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@TWS1405_2
Living under a rock as of late? 
Perhaps. All the stuff you pasted is from this thread, which is where I said I learned “Transgender as ideology” is in great dispute, so I fail to see what point or correction you are making. FYI, just because I posted an article does not mean I agree with it; it just means that the ideology denial is definitely a thing…


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@cristo71
You said “…until this thread…”
Doesn’t mean you read the entirety of the thread. Just that the thread in and of itself being created is what caught your attention. And at no time did you say, word for word in your OC, “Transgender as ideology.” Posting a single article that disputes the ideology doesn’t in fact discredit the fact that it is an ideology. Should have clarified and been more clear in what you were expressing instead of being so vague about it. 
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@TWS1405_2
Sorry, but it looks as though you are the one not keeping up here, yet you refuse to own up to it even after I (politely) attempted to set you straight. If you were to *ahem* follow your own advice and “thoroughly review the context of the discussion to date,” you would clearly see that I am more in agreement with you than not regarding this thread topic.
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@<<<oromagi>>>
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
I can start on the first part, but the second part is dicey, as you are asking for proponents of a concept (ideology) that they deny is the case (again, I don’t know why). So, no, I cannot provide proponents of an ideology when the proponents deny it is an ideology. Now, you can look up transgender activists, and you will find a bunch. Good enough?
No way.

Look, there are a couple issues at stake here:

1)  There's no such thing as an ideology that its proponents deny believing.  You can't make somebody be a Marxist by accusing them of Marxism. Karl Marx was no Marxist.  Jesus Christ was no Christian.  Republicans can't invent a phony ideology and stuff it in transgender mouths any more than I can take the Protocols of Zion and stuff it in all Caucasian mouths as "White ideology"  All ideology is voluntary and self-promoted or it not an ideology at all.
2)  I think there is some kind of ideology at the heart of what Republicans are squealing about but it has nothing to do with transgender people and it is a mistake to label it as such.  Most people agree that you get to control your name, your identity, your pronouns, your self-perception of gender.  Even YFL pretends this is not what he is trying to eradicate. 
  • The specific ideology I think Republicans want to eradicate is called Feminism, specifically 3rd Wave Feminism.  Third-wave feminism regarded race, social class, and transgender rights as central issues and really the whole "gender as social construct" takes off with Riot grrrl and Anita Hill in the early 90's.  That is an ideology with many vocal proponents and overwhelming popular support in the US.
What YFL and friends are really up to is wanting to destroy Feminism, but knowing that saying that out loud makes them look like the dickweeds, they idenfity a less popular, less understood minority to bully and use that label in order to avoid outrage.


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@cristo71
Sorry, but it looks as though you are the one not keeping up here, yet you refuse to own up to it even after I (politely) attempted to set you straight. If you were to *ahem* follow your own advice and “thoroughly review the context of the discussion to date,” you would clearly see that I am more in agreement with you than not regarding this thread topic.
😂 you couldn’t set a stick of licorice straight. 
You were wrong, not I, and I demonstrated that fact. 
And the issue isn’t about whether or not we agree, the issue was about your post in which I replied directly to. Your attempt at saving face acting like I was in the wrong is hilarious. Own it. Otherwise continue making a clown of yourself with these excusatory retorts. 
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@<<<oromagi>>>
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
What purpose does it serve you to constantly ask members to name no less than three well known proponents of the trans ideology? 

  • It stands as proof to people who are smarter than you that all your claims are bullshit.
  • There's no such thing as a popular ideology that you can't name the famous proponents of.  Socialism?  Marx or Atlee.  Christianity?  St. Paul or Augustine, etc.
    • The fact that you can't name the leaders in Transgender Ideology is because no such Idelogy exists outside of the GOP's echo chamber.

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@oromagi
No way.
Ah well, can’t say as I’m surprised. Good thing I didn’t spend more time attempting to fulfill your request than I did!

There's no such thing as an ideology that its proponents deny believing.
That’s not what I’m talking about, though. To clarify, I am saying that activists have created what amounts to a certain ideology, they just deny that it constitutes an ideology (again, I don’t know why). I am NOT saying that they deny believing the tenets of their “not an ideology.”

Third-wave feminism regarded race, social class, and transgender rights as central issues and really the whole "gender as social construct" takes off with Riot grrrl and Anita Hill in the early 90's.
Yes, this is pretty faithful to the wiki page on it…

That is an ideology with many vocal proponents and overwhelming popular support in the US.
But this is not. What makes that an admitted ideology, and not the transgender movement?

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@TWS1405_2
Man, oh, man! I always dreaded the day I ever found myself on the receiving end of one of your rhetorical ass whoopings!

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
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@<<<oromagi>>>
Please summarize the ideology and name three well-known proponents.
What purpose does it serve you to constantly ask members to name no less than three well known proponents of the trans ideology? 

  • It stands as proof to people who are smarter than you that all your claims are bullshit.
  • There's no such thing as a popular ideology that you can't name the famous proponents of.  Socialism?  Marx or Atlee.  Christianity?  St. Paul or Augustine, etc.
    • The fact that you can't name the leaders in Transgender Ideology is because no such Idelogy (sic) exists outside of the GOP's echo chamber.
Your assertion that the claim is "bullshit" isn't a credible argument. 

There very much is a popular ideology called Transgenderism, you're just in denial; and you clearly lack of the requisite knowledge of the term, ideology.

  • Meaning "systematic set of ideas, doctrines through which the world is interpreted" was in use in English by 1907, earliest in socialist and communist writing, with reference to class; from 1918 it came to be used of socialism and communism themselves (along with fascism) and later more broadly still.
  • Ideology ... is usually taken to mean, a prescriptive doctrine that is not supported by rational argument. [D.D. Raphael, "Problems of Political Philosophy," 1970]
  • Idée fixe (1836) is from French, literally "fixed idea."
  • -logy : word-forming element meaning "a speaking, discourse, treatise, doctrine, theory, science," from Greek -logia (often via French -logie or Medieval Latin -logia), from -log-, combining form of legein "to speak, tell;" thus, "the character or deportment of one who speaks or treats of (a certain subject);"
a
a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture
b
the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program
c
a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture

Transgenderism [is] an ideology. Period.
Your denialism will never change that FACT! 
Claiming it is "bullshit" does not discredit that FACT!

People like you will deny, bitch and argue logical fallacies in order to divert due attention from a very serious problem afflicting humanity. That denialism will NEVER change the FACT that transgenderism IS an ideology. 

"That crime belongs to the gender ideologues who are pushing an ideology that is politically regressive in every way. Indeed, “transgenderism” destroys the equality that women have achieved and actually enshrines harmful sex stereotypes in law, medicine, academia, and throughout all of society."

"The ideology of transgenderism is so pronounced and so widespread that there is no need to describe it in detail. What occasions a statement from the National Association of Scholars on it are several of the ways that that ideology has disrupted American education at all levels. These include:
  • Vitriolic attacks on faculty members and medical professionals who dissent from the transgender orthodoxy2
  • Insisting that faculty members and students divulge their “preferred pronouns” and that others address and refer to people by these pronouns.3
  • The readiness of competitive sports to permit individuals of one sex to compete in single-sex contests of the opposite sex.4
  • The designation of gender-inclusive restrooms on campus. Yale, for example, has 332 such designated restrooms created at the reported cost of $8.3 million.5
  • The insistence that archaeologists and forensic anthropologists cease classifying human skeletal remains as male or female, since we do not know the “gender identification” of the individuals.6
  • Distortion of the medical school curriculum and consequences for healthcare.7
"Transgender activists don’t admit that this is a metaphysical claim. They don’t want to have the debate on the level of philosophy, so they dress it up as a scientific and medical claim. And they’ve co-opted many professional associations for their cause."

"It was at that point — when I was told challenges to and questions about gender identity ideology in defense of women’s rights were equal to the lead up towards one of the worst genocides in human history — that I had my “WTF?” moment, and I began to tip."

"Van Mol called the trans movement “ideology masquerading as science, reinforced with emotional blackmail — ‘You have to support them or they’re going to kill themselves' — which is also not true.”"

"Some of the organizations Jennifer owns and funds are especially noteworthy to examining the rapid induction of transgender ideology into medical, legal and educational institutions."

"Militant transgender advocates are imposing their agenda with uncompromising zeal on schoolchildren."

"Research into the determinants of gender identity may do more harm than good"





When it comes to an ideology, there are no discernable "leaders" as it is a collective effort, not an individual one. The fact that you demand one just exposes the weakness of your "bullshit" subjective opinion. 

Oh, and you're not as smart as you delusionally believe. 


oromagi
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Trans-people claim that trans-women are women and trans-men are men. 
  • Only in a social sense, right.  I mean, they also created the labels transgender men and cisgender men to note the biological distinction, so you can't calim that trans people don't understand the biological distinction.  No trans persons is claiming that they magically transformed into the gender they feel more comfortable within.
So according to Trans-people, men can get pregnant. 
  • A fact of life:  transmen with functional uteruses can get pregnant.  As you  yourself claimed, the label is personal and unimportant to public policy.
Likewise, Congresswomen Cortez came under fire for using the phrase "Mensturating people" in a tweet.  LIkewise, she simply expained that many people who identify as transmen still get their periods.
Ok, in order for these statements to be biologically true, you will have to admit that trans-men are not men and trans-women are not women.
So when you said yesterday:

"The right to choose what you want to do with your life is up to you. So if you want to live in fantasy land, then you have every right to. That's a constitutional right. The Transgender ideology is not part of the constitution. The constitution gives you the right to fit into other ideologies that you deem fit.:
  • You were once again lying.  Transmen have a Consitituional right to identify as men and they don't have to admit otherwise to you in order to avoid your program of eradication.  The US Constitution protects such speech and any attempt by you to eradicate such speech is patently anti-American.  

If someone isn't born with gender dysphoria, can they still identify as transgender? 
  • Both terms describe the same phenomenon.  As you've proved incapable of comprehending, anybody identifiying as anything is called liberty in America.  That is ideology called Liberalism and America is built on the foundation belief in that liberty.  There's nothing particularly transgender about that ideology only particularly American.
Did you happen to look into Greene's response to these claims?
He explains how the study does back itself up, and how the claims are nothing more than a weak attack.

You have pissed your pants and run away from the irrefutable evidence that Heritage manufactured a fake report claiming  that kids who get gender surgery without their parent's permission are the cause of a significant rise in teen suicide disguising the fact that there are no kids that get gender surgey without their parent's permission.  

Heritage.org uses the format and language of scientific papers to print anti-scientific, faith-based claims knowing that suckers like you will think its science and think there is some scientific basis to your claim.  Rest assured, on the day you emerge from your hermetically sealed right wing bubble, you will discover that  actual serious peer-reviewed and tested science rejected  your faith-based claims 30 years ago.


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@TWS1405_2
Man, oh, man! I always dreaded the day I ever found myself on the receiving end of one of your rhetorical ass whoopings!
  • That Ku Klux Kunt has zero crediblity on  this or any other website.  You can ignore him and his ragebot 5000 routine at your leisure.  Why feed the trolls?

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@cristo71

Third-wave feminism regarded race, social class, and transgender rights as central issues and really the whole "gender as social construct" takes off with Riot grrrl and Anita Hill in the early 90's.
Yes, this is pretty faithful to the wiki page on it…
  • And precedes the Republican claims of a Transgender ideolgoy by30 years.
  • The correct name for the ideology that YFL seeks to eradcate is "Feminism"
That is an ideology with many vocal proponents and overwhelming popular support in the US.
But this is not. What makes that an admitted ideology, and not the transgender movement?
  • Because there are many Feminists who embrace and promote Feminism.  Nobody claims to be a proponent of Transgender Idelogy, only opponents.
  • Because we don't call it "Female-ism"  
    • We make a distinction between what we are born with and what we believe.
  • Because there is nothing in what Republicans claim is called "Transgender ideology" that didn't already exist for decades as part of Feminist ideology.

The Republican attempt to rebrand Feminsim as "Transgender Ideology" gives Republicans an opportunity to attack a popular American idelogy by subterfuge.


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@oromagi
Only in a social sense, right.  I mean, they also created the labels transgender men and cisgender men to note the biological distinction
Perfect example of what I mean. The transgender ideology suggests that there are more than two genders, meaning two kinds of male, two kinds of female etc.
Everyone else claims that there are only 2 genders. Male and female. You can call a trans-woman a woman, but in reality, they are a male.

No trans persons is claiming that they magically transformed into the gender they feel more comfortable within.
THAT IS LITERALLY THEIR ENTIRE REASONING.................Do you get out much? 

A fact of life:  transmen with functional uteruses can get pregnant. 
You mean women, who think that they are men. That is the correct definition.
 
You were once again lying.  Transmen have a Consitituional right to identify as men and they don't have to admit otherwise to you in order to avoid your program of eradication.
Again, no one is talking about eradicating certain types of people. That is something you made up. 
Second of all I said that according to the constitution you can identify as whatever you want, but the constitution doesn't legally allow you to always be represented as such. 

The US Constitution protects such speech and any attempt by you to eradicate such speech is patently anti-American.  
Red herring. I never said anything about limiting speech. 

  • Both terms describe the same phenomenon.  As you've proved incapable of comprehending, anybody identifiying as anything is called liberty in America.  That is ideology called Liberalism and America is built on the foundation belief in that liberty.  There's nothing particularly transgender about that ideology only particularly American.
That does not answer my question. My question was:
If someone isn't born with gender dysphoria, can they still identify as transgender? 
Yes, or no?

You have pissed your pants and run away from the irrefutable evidence that Heritage manufactured a fake report claiming  that kids who get gender surgery without their parent's permission are the cause of a significant rise in teen suicide disguising the fact that there are no kids that get gender surgey without their parent's permission.  

Heritage.org uses the format and language of scientific papers to print anti-scientific, faith-based claims knowing that suckers like you will think its science and think there is some scientific basis to your claim.  Rest assured, on the day you emerge from your hermetically sealed right wing bubble, you will discover that  actual serious peer-reviewed and tested science rejected  your faith-based claims 30 years ago.
So, you're not going to address the author of this study's response to the allegations. Ok, well, a win for me then. 


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@TWS1405_2
Trans IS a mental illness. Period. And no amount of lying, misinformation, disinformation, or ad hominem attacks by you and the rest of your cronies will ever change that fact. 
We don't need to attack you, the conversation about what qualifies as a mental illness is inherently subjective, so you clearly don't even understand what the word fact means. Nothing further needs to be said here.

You're learning quickly who the actual trolls and intellectual cowards are on this site are. 
lol got it. So those who defend their positions vehemently are the trolls while those who throw insults and then run away are the serious people. Ok bro...
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No, it is to you who lacks an understanding of the implication, importance and incontestable nature the term FACT beings to bear. 

So those who defend their positions vehemently are the trolls while those who throw insults and then run away are the serious people. Ok bro...
You got that ass backwards, pal. 
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@oromagi
  • Because there are many Feminists who embrace and promote Feminism.  Nobody claims to be a proponent of Transgender Idelogy, only opponents.
  • Because we don't call it "Female-ism"  
    • We make a distinction between what we are born with and what we believe.
  • Because there is nothing in what Republicans claim is called "Transgender ideology" that didn't already exist for decades as part of Feminist ideology.
So, it is a concept under the umbrella of an ideology but decidedly not an ideology in itself? Thanks for attempting to provide an answer, but this all merely sounds like a minor point of semantics.

The irony is that I believe that one of the groups most harmed by the current trajectory with the trans movement is women. How does the notion that a male may claim full possession and knowledge of womanhood not perpetuate male dominance over women?
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@Double_R
“If that person does not live in accordance with those traits associated with women, then that person is not a woman?

What’s the difference between an effeminate man (one who lives in accordance with traits associated with women) and a male who identifies as a woman?”

*crickets*

As you’re still here, just telling you that you have not yet begun to demonstrate the coherence of transgender movement claims.

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@cristo71
*scratching my head* Yet ya’ll claim it is decidedly not this:

i·de·ol·o·gy

That's why I put transgenderism in quotes. If you've been reading you would know that I made clear I am accepting the premise that transgenderism is an ideology for the sake of argument. Whether it really is or isn't is a useless conversation, I'm far more interested in addressing the arguments anti-"transgenderism" advocates are making.
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@Double_R
That's why I put transgenderism in quotes.
Weak sauce… and you leave out relevant parts of the post. I’m not talking about what you choose to call it, I’m talking about how you yourself defined it and how it coincided with the definition of ideology.

I just had a sneaking suspicion that you would refuse to own up to what is a blatant contradiction in your own claims.
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@cristo71
I didn’t even know the ideology categorization was under any dispute until this thread, which then led me to this article:

“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANSGENDER IDEOLOGY” (sorry for the yelling)

Frankly, I’m not sure why being an ideology (such as democracy— the horror!) is considered so repellent. Too close to being a religion maybe? 
I'm pretty sure Oromagi wants to avoid calling transgenderism an ideology because then it's open to criticism. He wants to have it labelled as "science" so that he can do his whole appeal to authority and 'you're against real science' schtick. 

I'm not exactly sure what Double R's angle on it is, though.