The transgenderism debate

So why the push for this transgender ideology?

 If an ideology is preaching, that men can be women, men can menstruate, men can go into women's bathrooms, men can compete against women in sports, theirs are more than two genders, etc. then that is going to shut down society very fast. I hope I don't need to explain how that is bad

https://www.sandiegocriminallawyersblog.com/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-using-wrong-gender-pronoun/

"It has been reported that Governor Jerry Brown signed into a law that would make it a crime to “willfully and repeatedly” decline to use a senior transgender patient’s “preferred name or pronouns.”  SB 179 (“Gender Recognition Act”) was signed into law back in October. The law will allow individuals to update state-issued identification documents (including birth certificates, state identification cards, and driver’s licenses) to select “nonbinary” as their gender."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-for-using-wrong-gender-pronoun-sponsor-denies-that-would-happen

""It shall be unlawful for a long-term care facility or facility staff to take any of the following actions wholly or partially on the basis of a person’s actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) status," the bill reads."

Making pornographic books, and comic books and putting them in kids elementary, middle and high schools. That is not pedophillia?

Not sex education. They are talking to them about sexual attraction. Who they are attracted to at young ages, and why they are. They are talking to kids about how to give concent. If that is not pedophillia then I don't know what is. 

KIDS SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT ABOUT WHO THEY ARE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO!

Kids (especially elementary schoolers) shouldn't need to know about that. THEY ARE KIDS FOR CHRISTS SAKE

It goes against science and biology, because science and biology state with empirical evidence that there are men and their are women. Men have a penis and testes, different body structure, and more testosterone in the body than females. Females have a vagina, ovary's, and a different body structure, and more osterigin than males.

The transgenderism ideology denies this biological fact.

"Transgender ideology is a controversial topic with opposing viewpoints1234. Proponents of the ideology believe that gender identity is as important as biological sex and that trans people should be regarded as the gender with which they identify13.

Because it is an incoherent ideology

Simple. Stop promoting this to kids. Stop promoting this ideology. That is the solution. 

I don't see a "push" for "transgender ideology" anywhere.

Sorry, but you do. How does this "shut down" society? The rest of the Hitler stuff is a ridiculous comp. Too ridiculous to even address. 

I looked into both of these in earlier discussions and never denied they existed; I said I can't find any instances of anyone being fined or criminally charged under these laws. Sounds like it addressed a problem that didn't exist and doesn't exist today. 

No, it is not, actually. 

I agree, you don't seem to know what pedophilia is. 

Elementary school children have sexual urges, guy. Why should they not understand them? Why don't they need to know that it's fine to have these urges?

I was going to address more of your post but it seems we've been over that ground. Can you please tell me how do you solve your perceived 'promotion of the transgender ideology' satisfactorily. What would you like specific people to stop doing specifically. What should the transgender community stop doing that is currently 'advancing their agenda'?

To whom is this addressed?

Also, teaching kids about consent, about sexual attraction, and about their genitals has nothing to do with transgenderism.

same here, except I'm against what's actually pedophilia, not children getting fulsome and accurate sex education from an early age

and teaching kids about sex overall.

"Transgenderism" has nothing to do with science and biology.

You know who else agrees? Your own source:

"Transgender ideology is a controversial topic with opposing viewpoints1234. Proponents of the ideology believe that gender identity is as important as biological sex and that trans people should be regarded as the gender with which they identify13.

If one thing is "as important as"  something else, then by definition, they are two different things.

SHOWING PORNOGRAPHIC BOOKS TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS IS NOT PEDOPHILIA??

I already answered your question in my last post.

The media, schools, children's shows, entertainment etc. 

Second of all, teaching society that men can menstruate is a big problem. 

Elementary school children have sexual urges, guy. Why should they not understand them? Why don't they need to know that it's fine to have these urges?

You know, I thought you were a reasonable guy, but after a comment like that, I think you might actually be a pedophile. ...Talking in certain ways is actually considered sexual activity. That's why you can actually be arrested for talking to kids in sexual ways. Even if it wasn't thought that is still very horrible. 

Yes it does. If a boy thinks he is a girl and wants a vagina, then you have to talk to a child about genitals, or just don't be a creep. 

Please give me the titles of these books so we can decide if it's pornography. Hint: Are You THere God It's Me Margaret is not a porno. 

No, what you said was "stop promoting the agenda." I'm asking you what that means in practical terms. Who has to stop doing what. When pressed, you said:

The media, schools, children's shows, entertainment etc. 

What should 'media' specifically STOP doing that's currently seen by you as 'promoting the agenda.' What children's shows are going to make Russia decide it's time to attack us? Which entertainment specifically is China looking at and saying "You know what, two more Sam Smith singles and America will be ready to fall!"? 

You are on the verge of 'raving.'

Who is teaching this? Where?

Teachers who tell a class of fifth graders that it's okay to have sexual attractions, sexual urges, and if you don't have them, cool, but you will soon so don't freak out, they're not pedophiles and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSGENDERISM.

 I'm talking about sex education, and not just from teachers, from parents. THere aren't many states in the union today where you can be arrested for talking about a girl having her period, or lose your job for telling your 10th grade health class it's not a huge deal to be gay. It doesn't make you a pedophile. 

At what age should a girl learn about her period? This is also "talk about genitals." Does that make someone a creep? 

I'm with you on pedophilia.

Very appropriate response in lieu of a kick in the head.

What is incoherent about it?

Yes Gender and Sex are not entirely the same. This statement is true. But the idea of gender/gender roles is based off of sex.

Gender is a social construct. Social constructs must be based off of something, otherwise it is a social construct without construction...

Gender is based off of sex. And there are only two sex's theirfore only two gender roles, only two genders. If their are more genders, than where did they come from, what are they based off of, and what is the legitimacy of it?

It is a good start that you recognize that it is an ideology. 

When a man identifies as a woman (or vice versa): what does it mean to be a man, what does it mean to be a woman, and what does it mean to identify as a woman?

• TRUTH#1:  Transgenderism is not an ideology, it is not a poltical point of view.  Not all transgender people  even view transgenderism as healthy or normal.  You commit the basic fallacy of overgeneralization by assuming that all people who share one psychological trait must also share one political point of view. 
  

• Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.
  

• And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.
  

• When the biology gets too complicated, some point to differences between brains of males and females as proof of the sexual binary. But a half century of empirical research has repeatedly challenged the idea that brain biology is simply XY = male brain or XX = female brain. In other words, there is no such thing as “the male brain” or “the female brain.” This is not to say that there are no observable differences. Certain brain characteristics can be sexually dimorphic: observable average differences across males and females. But like biological sex, pointing to “brain sex” as the explanation for these differences is wrong and hinders scientific research.
  

• Let’s just take the most famous example of sexual dimorphism in the brain: the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (sdnPOA). This tiny brain area with a disproportionately sized name is slightly larger in males than in females. But it’s unclear if that size difference indicates distinctly wired sdnPOAs in males versus females, or if—as with the bipotential primordium—the same wiring is functionally weighted toward opposite ends of a spectrum. Throw in the observation that the sdnPOA in gay men is closer to that of straight females than straight males, and the idea of “the male brain” falls apart.
  

• Trying to link sex, sex chromosomes and sexual dimorphism is also useless for understanding other brain properties. The hormone vasopressin is dimorphic but is linked to both behavioral differences and similarities across sex. Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful, and nowhere is this more obvious than in the brain. It also happens that transgender people have the brains to prove it.
  

The fact that you are unable to wrap your head around basing gender off of anything but biological sex

Gender throughout relatively recent human history has been associated largely around certain observable traits we consider to be feminine. They include the way one dresses, carries themselves, appears, and the responsibilities they assume. None of this has anything to do with ones genitals or chromosomes because those are not things we see on the outside in any normal setting.

But it's worse because you are also just factually wrong about the idea that there are only two sexes in any objective sense. There are plenty of real world examples of people born who do not fit neatly into one of your two boxes. I'm not going to explain it to you because it has been explained to you multiple times already. If you suddenly become interested in reality Google "intersex".

It means the individual lives in accordance with the traits and characteristics we associate with those terms. We tend to think of women as feminine in the way they dress, act, look, and even think. Women tend to be more sensitive, emotional, and even submissive. And yes, we think of women as having breasts and a vagina. 

None of these traits alone makes the gender, it's a collection that we base our full picture on.

How does transgenderism benefit society? I don't think it does, at least not in any way you'd find beneficial, but I also don't see it as deleterious to society either. It's benign at worst. 

Ok, so it doesn't benefit society. 

So if transgenderism doesn't benefit society, and we don't need it, then why the big push for this ideology? They have all the rights that we have, and all the same freedoms, so there's no need to protest that. So why the push for this transgender ideology?

Okay, so it's an ideology that's proposing an idea. What rights of yours are being infringed upon, or do you FEAR will be infringed upon? 

How did Hitler gain power?

Through media influence. That was the main reason he gained control and persuaded the German people to follow along with his plan. He preached world peace and he even claimed what world leaders are claiming today, that we would save the environment. 

No Germans rights were being infringed upon, but society still fell, and because of society's collapse, that is what eventually infringed on their own rights. Same thing is happening now. Again, it's not the LGBTQ community. It is the transgender ideology. 

It's common sense of why it is bad for society. If an ideology is preaching, that men can be women, men can menstruate, men can go into women's bathrooms, men can compete against women in sports, theirs are more than two genders, etc. then that is going to shut down society very fast. I hope I don't need to explain how that is bad. 

I cannot find anyone in California who's ever been arrested for misgendering someone. Or even fined under the California law. If this ever happened, I feel like at least ONE conservative news outlet would have made a crusade out of it, but it doesn't seem to have ever happened. 

https://www.sandiegocriminallawyersblog.com/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-using-wrong-gender-pronoun/

"It has been reported that Governor Jerry Brown signed into a law that would make it a crime to “willfully and repeatedly” decline to use a senior transgender patient’s “preferred name or pronouns.”  SB 179 (“Gender Recognition Act”) was signed into law back in October. The law will allow individuals to update state-issued identification documents (including birth certificates, state identification cards, and driver’s licenses) to select “nonbinary” as their gender."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-for-using-wrong-gender-pronoun-sponsor-denies-that-would-happen

""It shall be unlawful for a long-term care facility or facility staff to take any of the following actions wholly or partially on the basis of a person’s actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) status," the bill reads."

That's not what pedophilia is, not remotely.

Talking to kids about consent. Talking to kids about genitals in a sexual way. Making pornographic books, and comic books and putting them in kids elementary, middle and high schools. That is not pedophillia?

Adults talking to kids about consent is sex education and not pedophilia.

Not sex education. They are talking to them about sexual attraction. Who they are attracted to at young ages, and why they are. They are talking to kids about how to give concent. If that is not pedophillia then I don't know what is. 

Adults talking to kids about whoever they're sexually attracted to, in the context of "you like what you like, it doesn't make you a freak or any less worthy of respect" is not pedophilia. 

KIDS SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT ABOUT WHO THEY ARE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO!

Kids (especially elementary schoolers) shouldn't need to know about that. THEY ARE KIDS FOR CHRISTS SAKE. 

If you think that kids will understand when they are taught about pronouns, consent, sexual identity, and sexual attraction, then you are mistaken. They are kids and don't need to know about that. Stop sexualizing the kids. Leave them alone. 

No reputable news organization I can find is reporting this, and it doesn't make any sense on the surface. How would a child pay for this procedure, for one. It sounds like the kind of thing that one of your self-selecting news outlets would turn into a clickbait headline.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/vulnerable-senate-democrats-refuse-say-if-support-youth-gender-surgery-without-parental-consent

"Vulnerable House and Senate Democrats refuse to say whether they support gender reassignment surgery for minors and if the controversial procedure should be allowed without parental consent, despite recent concerns over the issue."

https://freebeacon.com/democrats/washington-state-democrats-vote-to-hide-transgender-runaways-from-parents/

"Washington State could soon require youth shelters to hide minors who run away from home in order to obtain an abortion or sex change operations without parental consent."

Now, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION for the problem you see? I'm not saying you need to have written a bill that could pass a state legislature. I'm saying you see a problem, and it bothers you quite a bit, so you must have an ideal solution in mind. What is it? What does it look like in the broadest terms?

Simple. Stop promoting this to kids. Stop promoting this ideology. That is the solution. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnidgXA270Y

The fact that you are unable to wrap your head around basing gender off of anything but biological sex because that is all that makes sense to you is not an argument that someone else's ideology is also based off of your construct.

Again, you are the one criticizing the ideology you and others labeled "transgenderism", but you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that the ideology you are criticizing is entirely in your own head. The actual people you point to who you claim hold those idea are talking about something entirely different.

Gender throughout relatively recent human history has been associated largely around certain observable traits we consider to be feminine. 

They include the way one dresses, carries themselves, appears, and the responsibilities they assume. None of this has anything to do with ones genitals or chromosomes because those are not things we see on the outside in any normal setting.

That's what the LGTBQIA community is actually talking about. Your whole argument is one big strawman.

But it's worse because you are also just factually wrong about the idea that there are only two sexes in any objective sense. There are plenty of real world examples of people born who do not fit neatly into one of your two boxes. I'm not going to explain it to you because it has been explained to you multiple times already. If you suddenly become interested in reality Google "intersex".

Transgenderism came about during evolution.   Bonobos are an endangered ape species found only in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where they live in small, largely peaceful tribes. Along with chimps, they’re our closest living relatives, which is why the study of their mating habits opens a political minefield. Unlike chimps, bonobos are naturally bisexual—and happily engage in homosexual acts for enjoyment, to solve conflicts, and to get ahead in the tribe. It is interesting to note that

chimpanzee and bonobo males are extraordinarily well endowed in the testicle department.

Please give me the titles of these books so we can decide if it's pornography. Hint: Are You THere God It's Me Margaret is not a porno. 

Transgenderism is an ideology and is also a political point of view and, there are many sources to prove this if you would like to check them out:

A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities | The Economist

Why transgender ideology is harmful for children (and everyone) - ERLC

Trans Rights and Gender Identity - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Transgender Ideology Is Riddled With Contradictions. Here Are the Big Ones. | The Heritage Foundation

Yes, this is true that not all transgender people view their actions and beliefs and healthy or normal. That is also true for many other beliefs, hobby's, addictions, etc. 

I did not claim that all people who share one psychological trait must also share one political viewpoint. I didn't even claim that all transgender identifying people share the same political viewpoint. 

I only described and defined the transgender ideology (idea).  

• THIS: " Ideology:  "a set of opinions or beliefs of a group or an individual. The transgender movement is an ideology. So I did describe one. "  It is every bit as fucked up a prejudice to say that all transpeople share a set of beliefs as it is to say that all straight men share one set of beliefs
  

Again, fallacy of faulty reasoning. 

"the LGBT community and ideology is not healthy for society, and must be eradicated (the ideology, not the people)."

• Obviously, eradication is an existential threat. 
  

Well obviously, either you didn't fully read and understand what I wrote, or your logic is flawed.