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@ludofl3x
Cannot work on a solution until you acknowledge the problem. DUH!
The transgenderism debate
Posts
Total:
673
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@TWS1405_2
You know that .5% of the US population is 1.6 million, don't you?
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@FLRW
-->@<<<TWS1405_2>>>You know that .5% of the US population is 1.6 million, don't you?
Yup. And it is insignificant to the other 355 million normal people.
And yet that 1.6 is upending science, law, government, employment, sports, education, so on and so forth in the name of political correctness and absolute lunacy!!!!
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@ludofl3x
Is it any more or less pointless than posting here at all? I don't understand the problem, which is why I figured I'd ask for a solution, so I could work backwards and see if that helped. Otherwise we are just going to both state our positions over and over again.
Reverse engineering a solution usually means one is trying to replicate someone else’s solution to a recognized problem. Anyway, you won’t find my solution enlightening as it would involve you… and people like you recognizing the problems with the transgender movement and social contagion.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Transgenderismgoes against science and biology, and I will stick to the side of biology.
Maybe it “goesagainst” toddler science, (OK children, there's boys and girls, boys play sports, girls play house, any questions?) but to grown-ups over here in the real world, thatstatement just makes you look stupid.
It’snot that hard to become informed about the subject matter you want to debate,use Google, learn to read, stop babbling about science like a moron.
Science knows alot about transgenderism and they know a lot about transphobia too, the consensusis that Transphobia is the pathology.
Our societal normis for people to be informed about what they debate, your astounding ignoranceis bad for society, we appreciate our societal norms and don't appreciate you dumbing it down.
Get a clue, read, learn, stop embarrassing yourself, try to conform toour societal norms, learn something and stop blathering like an idiot.
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@TWS1405_2
Good grief yourself, you pompous little 💩!Norms: norm/nôrm/noun
Yep, and that's exactly how I used them. You figured out how to use a dictionary, goof for you, now you need to do sentences, and that's going to be harder.
You didn't have somebody read it to you real slow like I suggested, did you? I know it gets real complicated when somebody does a line of words into a sentence, but don't be embarrassed to ask someone for help.
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@Sidewalker
I hate you. You’re a dick. and I don’t say this because you “think” you bested me, I say it because you’re a pompous sanctimonious prick who thinks his 💩 don’t stink.
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@TWS1405_2
I hate you. You’re a dick. and I don’t say this because you “think” you bested me, I say it because you’re a pompous sanctimonious prick who thinks his 💩 don’t stink.
Awwww, I bet you say that to all the guys.
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@Sidewalker
Glad you’re back on DART.
I haven’t seen you post in the forums for a while.
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@Sidewalker
You know, if, and I mean [IF] you had the balls…you would have challenged me to a debate by now on point. But since you haven’t. Well. That’s speaks volumes.
It's good for society for all people to have the right to self ownership. It's a fundamental human right.
People already have the right to self-ownership. No one is taking that away from them.
How does transgenderism help people gain the right to self-ownership, when they already have the right to that?
Again, the question is how it benefits society, and why do we need it.
This isn't what you said earlier: you said the ideology is limited to the idea that men can become women and women can become men. So with such a limited scope, what rights do you think this ideology is trying to infringe upon of yours?
Not, limited. I said this is the basic principle in which the ideology is based upon.
This ideology is trying to propose an idea that will hurt society, therefore hurting me, and in doing so infringing on my rights.
If an ideology is to be accepted, it has to make a case for itself, instead of just affecting society without any justification as to why, then letting the people deal with the consequences it brings.
So our culture is taking the ideology that a man can become a woman and woman can become a man wants what to become a law? This isn't clear at all.
This ideology is influencing people to believe in the idea that any resistance to the ideology should be punished. You can already see this in California and Canada where you can be arrested for misgendering someone.
Catholics protect and empower molesters by shielding them from prosecution and relocating offending priests to other parishes, where they almost always do the same thing. As far as not forcing their views into societal norms, then why does anyone care about what a candidates religious values are? And literally EVERY religious organization forces their beliefs onto children. It's the only reason religion continues to exist. You mention there are "a lot" of examples, can you define "a lot"? Is it possible you don't see drag queen pedophiles being arrested because...it doesn't happen as much as you're worried about? Seems like that would be a more sensible explanation for the lack of arrests, no?
Let's get back on track. Honestly drag queens is a whole other argument. I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
What occurs more often do you think: transgender pedophilia (not children going to story hours which you lump in here, that's not pedophilia) or transgender violence?
I think that all people of all different groups have the same capacity of violence. It's the pedophilia that is very prominent in this community, with adults talking to kids about consent on YouTube Kids, adults talking to kids about who they should be and are attracted to sexually. That is pretty pedophilic to me.
Don't all minors require parental consent for prescriptions and operations?
Yes.
I don't know where you live but kids in my state can't just go get a prescription for something. Are there a lot of 11 year olds just going to doctors and getting prescriptions where you live? Because if so, maybe THAT's a problem to deal with before you start worrying about who is dressing how.
Obviously, you are behind the times. Democrats right now are pushing the idea that kids should have the right to transition without parent consent. Look it up, it something that they are legitimately pushing.
Maybe there's a more useful way we can have this discussion.I'll acknowledge that you have a problem with transgenderism.Can you tell me how you'd propose to solve it?
Well can you answer my questions first? I will be glad to answer yours once mine have been answered.
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@ludofl3x
Forgot to tag.
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@cristo71
Exactly.
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@oromagi
Ok, this one is going to be fun.
- TRUTH#1: Transgenderism is not an ideology, it is not a poltical point of view. Not all transgender people even view transgenderism as healthy or normal.
You can put TRUTH in front of whatever you'd like, but that doesn't make it true.
Transgenderism is an ideology and is also a political point of view and, there are many sources to prove this if you would like to check them out:
"Transgender ideology is a controversial topic with opposing viewpoints1234. Proponents of the ideology believe that gender identity is as important as biological sex and that trans people should be regarded as the gender with which they identify13. This has influenced policy-makers in some places to allow trans women into spaces that were once reserved for females1. The opposing viewpoint, often described as "gender-critical", argues that biological sex is unchangeable and that the conviction that one has been born in the wrong body should not be dispositive1. The transgender movement is criticized for denying basic facts about human beings and fostering dissonance2. The ideology is also criticized for ignoring contrary evidence and competing interests, disparaging alternative practices, and aiming to muffle skeptical voices and shut down any disagreement"
Yes, this is true that not all transgender people view their actions and beliefs and healthy or normal. That is also true for many other beliefs, hobby's, addictions, etc.
You commit the basic fallacy of overgeneralization by assuming that all people who share one psychological trait must also share one political point of view.
You commit the fallacy of faulty reasoning. I did not claim that all people who share one psychological trait must also share one political viewpoint. I didn't even claim that all transgender identifying people share the same political viewpoint.
I only described and defined the transgender ideology (idea).
- THIS: " Ideology: "a set of opinions or beliefs of a group or an individual. The transgender movement is an ideology. So I did describe one. " It is every bit as fucked up a prejudice to say that all transpeople share a set of beliefs as it is to say that all straight men share one set of beliefs
Again, fallacy of faulty reasoning. Maybe try to be slow on the accusations.
If you want to base your argument in truth you need to remove your biased and false prejudices from the original question.
I am basing it in truth. Biological truth, Scientific truth, and logic and reasoning.
We started this conversation two weeks ago and you scampered.
From what I remember, I mostly made that thread to let others talk about the issue, not for me specifically to go into deep conversation about it.
- TRUTH#2: You need to stop lying about your own motivations. Two week ago you claimed "the LGBT community and ideology is not healthy for society, and must be eradicated."
- Today it is: "I don't have a problem with the transgender people"
Yes...............this is not lying. I don't have a problem with transgender people. I do have a problem in the belief's that they hold, but not the person specifically. Also if you wouldn't have cut out that last part like the mainstream media does to a lot of people, you would have shown the whole story.
"the LGBT community and ideology is not healthy for society, and must be eradicated (the ideology, not the people)."
If you're going to be part of honest conversation, at least present my position correctly.
- Obviously, eradication is an existential threat. I believe that you are a threat to me and to LGBTQ people everywhere. When people threaten me like you did two weeks ago and then come back two weeks later "oh, no....I don't have a problem with the transgender people" not only can I not believe you, my defense posture is raised even higher because you a threat trying to disguise yourself as a non-threat.
Well obviously, either you didn't fully read and understand what I wrote, or your logic is flawed. Also, I do believe that you are saying your defense will be raised higher, is a threat, and I will be taking that personally, by crying and worrying all night long.
TRUTH#3: You need to stop lying about what biologists say about transgenderism. Medical schools teach that the transmission of sex to embryos is complicated and not entirely understood.
Give me a biologist (just one) by name (preferably a trustworthy one) who claims that the ideology of transgenderism lines up with biology.
Every time you say "LGBTQ is not scientific or biological" you are lying and failing to face the facts as 21st century science has presented them to you. Here is an excerpt from Scientific American (not a Christian website) article entitled, "Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia"
Well, even though you didn't provide a source link, I found it myself.
Here are some problems with it, I need you to adress:
"The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change."
Ok give me one example of a male biologically changing into a female, or vice versa (just one).
The article also says that there is no difference between the female brain and the male brain, so.................yea.
The rest is talking about how babies receive their biological sex, and intersex. people.
Two things. Babys receiving a sex, proves that a binary exists.
And intersex is literally not another sex, it is a disorder/development issue. It would be like someone being born with one leg, and then everyone saying that there is now a whole spectrum of types of legs.
And intersex is literally not another sex, it is a disorder/development issue. It would be like someone being born with one leg, and then everyone saying that there is now a whole spectrum of types of legs.
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@Sidewalker
It’snot that hard to become informed about the subject matter you want to debate,use Google, learn to read, stop babbling about science like a moron.Science knows alot about transgenderism and they know a lot about transphobia too, the consensusis that Transphobia is the pathology.
Any biologist that says transgenderism lines up with biology is full of sh**.
Get a clue, read, learn, stop embarrassing yourself, try to conform toour societal norms, learn something and stop blathering like an idiot.
I guess you can't refute any of my points I made to you, so you just turn to insults. Oh, no I'm crying. What I am I going to do??
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@YouFound_Lxam
People think all the time.
It's the nature of the beast.
LGBT is just people obsessing about recreational sexuality.
Which it seems, is also the nature of the beast.
As a thinking species we've never quite come to terms with the penis vagina thing.
And studies are fine, if you're prepared to listen to both studies.
But if you are only interested in one study, they studies become pointless.
Though World population is increasing, so a lot of people have still got the hang of the procreational thing.
No worries.
Just leave the gender benders to fiddle with their bits.
And stop obsessing about gender benders fiddling with their bits.
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@YouFound_Lxam
It’snot that hard to become informed about the subject matter you want to debate,use Google, learn to read, stop babbling about science like a moron.Science knows alot about transgenderism and they know a lot about transphobia too, the consensusis that Transphobia is the pathology.Any biologist that says transgenderism lines up with biology is full of sh**.
I see, so your informed opinion is that it "goes against" science, and if science disagrees with you, then science is full of shit. So it's on us to determine whether science is full of shit or you are full of shit? Done.
Get a clue, read, learn, stop embarrassing yourself, try to conform toour societal norms, learn something and stop blathering like an idiot.I guess you can't refute any of my points I made to you, so you just turn to insults. Oh, no I'm crying. What I am I going to do??
You mean, how dare you insult me while I'm busy insulting the LGBTQ community, science, and everybody that adheres to our societal norms by actually being informed and honest.
Oh no, the self-righteous child bigot is offended, just like he finds the LGBTQ community, science, and informed people offensive, what am I going to do??
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@TWS1405_2
You know, if, and I mean [IF] you had the balls…you would have challenged me to a debate by now on point. But since you haven’t. Well. That’s speaks volumes.
You think I can teach you how to read (and comprehend) in a debate?
Sorry, but I can't fix stupid.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Again, the question is how it benefits society, and why do we need it.
How does transgenderism benefit society? I don't think it does, at least not in any way you'd find beneficial, but I also don't see it as deleterious to society either. It's benign at worst.
This ideology is trying to propose an idea that will hurt society, therefore hurting me, and in doing so infringing on my rights.
Okay, so it's an ideology that's proposing an idea. What rights of yours are being infringed upon, or do you FEAR will be infringed upon? c
This ideology is influencing people to believe in the idea that any resistance to the ideology should be punished. You can already see this in California and Canada where you can be arrested for misgendering someone.
I cannot find anyone in California who's ever been arrested for misgendering someone. Or even fined under the California law. If this ever happened, I feel like at least ONE conservative news outlet would have made a crusade out of it, but it doesn't seem to have ever happened.
I think that all people of all different groups have the same capacity of violence. It's the pedophilia that is very prominent in this community, with adults talking to kids about consent on YouTube Kids, adults talking to kids about who they should be and are attracted to sexually. That is pretty pedophilic to me.
That's not what pedophilia is, not remotely. No wonder we're having all this trouble, you seem to have a different and very WIDE definition of pedophilia. Adults talking to kids about consent is sex education and not pedophilia. Adults talking to kids about whoever they're sexually attracted to, in the context of "you like what you like, it doesn't make you a freak or any less worthy of respect" is not pedophilia.
Democrats right now are pushing the idea that kids should have the right to transition without parent consent.
No reputable news organization I can find is reporting this, and it doesn't make any sense on the surface. How would a child pay for this procedure, for one. It sounds like the kind of thing that one of your self-selecting news outlets would turn into a clickbait headline.
Now, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION for the problem you see? I'm not saying you need to have written a bill that could pass a state legislature. I'm saying you see a problem, and it bothers you quite a bit, so you must have an ideal solution in mind. What is it? What does it look like in the broadest terms?
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@cristo71
you won’t find my solution enlightening as it would involve you… and people like you recognizing the problems with the transgender movement and social contagion.
This is exactly what I'm asking. Even if I don't find the solution feasible, it would at least help me understand what it is you think needs to be addressed, then I can inquire as to the why's. It seems super difficult for people who are apparently in some way anti-transgenderism to elucidate exactly what it is that's such a huge threat about them. Go 'perfect world' solution, doesn't have to be passable legislation, just if you could have your wish, what specifically would you change?
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@YouFound_Lxam
It's good for society for all people to have the right to self ownership. It's a fundamental human right.People already have the right to self-ownership
Girls and women don’t when it comes to their uterus.
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@Sidewalker
@<<<TWS1405_2>>>You know, if, and I mean [IF] you had the balls…you would have challenged me to a debate by now on point. But since you haven’t. Well. That’s speaks volumes.You think I can teach you how to read (and comprehend) in a debate?Sorry, but I can't fix stupid.
Predictable 🐓 💩 response. 😂
Very appropriate response in lieu of a kick in the head.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well there are many reasons I find it concerning.The idea of transgenderism is that a man can become a woman, and vice versa. This idea in of by itself breaks down social norms. Now I don't know about you l, but I like society the way it is. We have been thriving with our social norms for a while now and it has been good. If someone is to suddenly present something like transgenderism which would break social norms, then I want at least an explanation as to why it will benefit society better and why we need it. If no explanation is provided then I am going to assume using human nature as evidence that it is simply for self pleasure and desires, which is not always good and I am obviously going to question that.
Social norms are important but SJWs and shitlibs are going to argue that we need to adjust to the new 'scientific' understanding that 'transgenderism is real' due to science™. You're also going to get hit with the whole 'transphobia' line of argument, wherein people argue you have irrational fear of the conclusions science™ came to: transgenderism is real.
I find it's more effective to argue that transgenderism is a mental illness. That way, you'll still:
(1) Have grounds for compassions to suit your (and other's) Christian faith
(2) Avoid the 'transphobia' line of argument
(3) Agree that transgenderism has some biological merit, but only in the sense of schizophrenia/bipolar disorder/another mental illness, rather than a valid lifestyle choice or natural urge that should be enabled
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@ludofl3x
This is exactly what I'm asking. Even if I don't find the solution feasible, it would at least help me understand what it is you think needs to be addressed, then I can inquire as to the why's. It seems super difficult for people who are apparently in some way anti-transgenderism to elucidate exactly what it is that's such a huge threat about them. Go 'perfect world' solution, doesn't have to be passable legislation, just if you could have your wish, what specifically would you change?
Well, it’s not a short list of issues, and you have already admitted your lack of curiosity about one of those issues. Frankly, it seems like you want me to put maximum effort into this discussion while you glide along with minimal effort. Respectfully, be advised that I will not be putting in markedly more effort in this discussion than you are.
So, one of the many things I would change is the “Admit trans women are women or be a bad person!” mindset which offers insults and deplatforming instead of open discussion and disagreement.
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@cristo71
So, one of the many things I would change is the “Admit trans women are women or be a bad person!” mindset which offers insults and deplatforming instead of open discussion and disagreement.
This isn't a public policy or a law, though, you want to change or enact, and it's not really a 'solution' per se. It seems like this is your main objection: that disagreeing that trans women are biological women results in judgement by others. It's something you disagree with, which I support your right to do. How would you propose to change it? Seems like legislatively it'd be problematic, but maybe you have an idea I can't come up with.
I don't want you to put in any more effort than I am, I'm just asking so I can better understand what you think the threat is. So far it's that you disagree that trans women and biological females are the same, a position I agree with.
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@ludofl3x
We are just about done here, I’m afraid.
You said:
Go 'perfect world' solution, doesn't have to be passable legislation, just if you could have your wish, what specifically would you change?
Yet when I respectfully humored your request, you gave this contradictory feedback:
This isn't a public policy or a law, though, you want to change or enact, and it's not really a 'solution' per se.
I’m not sure if your “speaking with forked tongue” is intentional or not, but it is hardly your first offense, expected even, and it is untenable. I’m pretty sure your smug attitude is intentional though.
Have an excellent day.
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@cristo71
Okay, thanks. My clumsily phrased question was not intentional, it should have been more clear that while it doesn't have to be legislation based, I'd like to understand how you'd solve the problem you think transgenderism is causing. Thanks all the same, you too.
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@ludofl3x
How does transgenderism benefit society? I don't think it does, at least not in any way you'd find beneficial, but I also don't see it as deleterious to society either. It's benign at worst.
Ok, so it doesn't benefit society.
So if transgenderism doesn't benefit society, and we don't need it, then why the big push for this ideology? They have all the rights that we have, and all the same freedoms, so there's no need to protest that. So why the push for this transgender ideology?
Okay, so it's an ideology that's proposing an idea. What rights of yours are being infringed upon, or do you FEAR will be infringed upon?
How did Hitler gain power?
Through media influence. That was the main reason he gained control and persuaded the German people to follow along with his plan. He preached world peace and he even claimed what world leaders are claiming today, that we would save the environment.
No Germans rights were being infringed upon, but society still fell, and because of society's collapse, that is what eventually infringed on their own rights. Same thing is happening now. Again, it's not the LGBTQ community. It is the transgender ideology.
It's common sense of why it is bad for society. If an ideology is preaching, that men can be women, men can menstruate, men can go into women's bathrooms, men can compete against women in sports, theirs are more than two genders, etc. then that is going to shut down society very fast. I hope I don't need to explain how that is bad.
I cannot find anyone in California who's ever been arrested for misgendering someone. Or even fined under the California law. If this ever happened, I feel like at least ONE conservative news outlet would have made a crusade out of it, but it doesn't seem to have ever happened.
"It has been reported that Governor Jerry Brown signed into a law that would make it a crime to “willfully and repeatedly” decline to use a senior transgender patient’s “preferred name or pronouns.” SB 179 (“Gender Recognition Act”) was signed into law back in October. The law will allow individuals to update state-issued identification documents (including birth certificates, state identification cards, and driver’s licenses) to select “nonbinary” as their gender."
""It shall be unlawful for a long-term care facility or facility staff to take any of the following actions wholly or partially on the basis of a person’s actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) status," the bill reads."
That's not what pedophilia is, not remotely.
Talking to kids about consent. Talking to kids about genitals in a sexual way. Making pornographic books, and comic books and putting them in kids elementary, middle and high schools. That is not pedophillia?
Adults talking to kids about consent is sex education and not pedophilia.
Not sex education. They are talking to them about sexual attraction. Who they are attracted to at young ages, and why they are. They are talking to kids about how to give concent. If that is not pedophillia then I don't know what is.
Adults talking to kids about whoever they're sexually attracted to, in the context of "you like what you like, it doesn't make you a freak or any less worthy of respect" is not pedophilia.
KIDS SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT ABOUT WHO THEY ARE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO!
Kids (especially elementary schoolers) shouldn't need to know about that. THEY ARE KIDS FOR CHRISTS SAKE.
If you think that kids will understand when they are taught about pronouns, consent, sexual identity, and sexual attraction, then you are mistaken. They are kids and don't need to know about that. Stop sexualizing the kids. Leave them alone.
No reputable news organization I can find is reporting this, and it doesn't make any sense on the surface. How would a child pay for this procedure, for one. It sounds like the kind of thing that one of your self-selecting news outlets would turn into a clickbait headline.
"Vulnerable House and Senate Democrats refuse to say whether they support gender reassignment surgery for minors and if the controversial procedure should be allowed without parental consent, despite recent concerns over the issue."
"Washington State could soon require youth shelters to hide minors who run away from home in order to obtain an abortion or sex change operations without parental consent."
Now, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION for the problem you see? I'm not saying you need to have written a bill that could pass a state legislature. I'm saying you see a problem, and it bothers you quite a bit, so you must have an ideal solution in mind. What is it? What does it look like in the broadest terms?
Simple. Stop promoting this to kids. Stop promoting this ideology. That is the solution.
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@Kaitlyn
(1) Have grounds for compassions to suit your (and other's) Christian faith(2) Avoid the 'transphobia' line of argument(3) Agree that transgenderism has some biological merit, but only in the sense of schizophrenia/bipolar disorder/another mental illness, rather than a valid lifestyle choice or natural urge that should be enabled
Turns out any time I do this, they only deny it, which is a relatively clear sign of a win for me.
Right now I am trying to hit at all the common sense part of it to draw out the insanity.