Without divine authority, you cannot have objective morality.
I'm not convinced that is true. I'm also not convinced morality need be objective to function. Convince me.
Objjective morality?
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@SkepticalOne
It's actually. with divine authority, you cannot have objective morality.
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Morality although it has subjective elements, in that may it vary depending on cultures and beliefs, it also has an objective evolutionary basis and that basis is “empathy,” which is the ability to share someone else's feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person's situation.
We evolved as a tribal species and it was through feelings of empathy that united that tribal group, enabling cooperation so that by working together we were able to hunt large animals and defend ourselves against predators, this effectively placed us at the top of the food chain which in evolutionary terms is about as good as it gets.
God = good people get rewards after they die, evil people are punished after they die.
No God = good and evil people both die and perish. Good people dont get any rewards, evil people dont get punished at all. Good and evil becomes the same.
Also, the atheists have terrible morality. Its not enough that atheist Stalin, atheist Mao and atheist Hitler have killed hundreds millions of people. It goes further, as atheists perform rituals of child sacrifice called abortion. They sacrifice children for sexual pleasure. They already killed over 1 billion children.
Bible has the morality of life - objectively the best morality. Atheists dont have morality, since they reject God and with that they reject the morality of life.
The only way to have best morality is to teach the best morality. Atheists dont teach the best morality. Thats why they dont have best morality. Christians have the best morality and they teach it to others, and they remind themselves too.
Christianity is the belief in best morality. Atheism is the lack of such belief. Therefore, its obvious that Christianity is much better than atheism.
It is of no surprise then that best countries in the world are Christian countries. If you want atheism, go to USSR or Mao's China.
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@SkepticalOne
I'm not convinced that is true. I'm also not convinced morality need be objective to function. Convince me.
All humans agree on a basic moral belief. All humans share the same basic moral conscience. Therefore right and wrong exist, and certain things will never be good, and certain things will never be bad. If morality was not objective, then we wouldn't be able to function and see right from wrong.
100% true!
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@Sir.Lancelot
100% true!
Not an argument. Since you were the person I quoted, I was hoping for more from you. 🙂
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@YouFound_Lxam
All humans agree on a basic moral belief. All humans share the same basic moral conscience.
Except *all* humans don't. If the premises of your argument are built from absolute descriptions (which are demonstrably false), your conclusion can't possibly be true.
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@Elliott
Would you say morality is subjective, objective, or some type of hybrid?
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@FLRW
It's actually. with divine authority, you cannot have objective morality.
Did you mean to say objective morality and divine authority do not go together?
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@Best.Korea
Also, the atheists have terrible morality.
It depends on what standard you're using. By a particular subjective understanding of 'what God wants', I'm sure atheists have terrible morality. That being said, why should we use that particular standard besides you personally finding it meaningful?
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@SkepticalOne
Except *all* humans don't. If the premises of your argument are built from absolute descriptions (which are demonstrably false), your conclusion can't possibly be true.
Yes, all humans are born with the basic moral conscience.
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@YouFound_Lxam
All humans share the same basic moral conscience. Therefore right and wrong exist,
So... Argumentum ad populuum? That's your case?
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@SkepticalOne
Would you say morality is subjective, objective, or some type of hybrid?
Basically a hybrid as you put it. Morality has an evolutionary foundation but beyond that is largely a social construct.
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@SkepticalOne
why should we use that particular standard
Its the best standard that increases life, ensures survival and makes best societies in the world.
Unless of course you prefer murders, rape, depression, suicides and abortions. Do you prefer murders, rape, depression, suicides and abortions?
These things are objectively wrong, but you have a right to disagree and live in denial running around screaming "There is no God" and then after you die you go to hell where you can live in denial forever. However, that wont harm God at all. It also wont harm me. 😊
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yes, all humans are born with the basic moral conscience.
I guess you've never heard of sociopaths?
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@Elliott
I agree to the hybrid label.
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@SkepticalOne
Not an argument. Since you were the person I quoted, I was hoping for more from you.
Only if we do a Rated debate on the subject.
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@Best.Korea
Its the best standard that increases life, ensures survival and makes best societies in the world.
I don't think the standard you prefer does that. At best, it might do that for those who think like you. However, the fact that your standard assumes an 'us vs. them' means it is divisive and literally the opposite of what is required of morality. Eg. If it causes humans to NOT get along, it's not morality.
Unless of course you prefer murders, rape, depression, suicides and abortions. Do you prefer murders, rape, depression, suicides and abortions?
First, humanity existed and flourished long before the god of the Bible was 'revealed'. Secondly, its almost like you've never read the Bible. The Bible contains plenty of god-condoned murder, rape, and even abortion. So, humanity can and has functioned without your holy book, AND your holy book is not absent these things. That's a horrible point you made there.
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@SkepticalOne
I guess you've never heard of sociopaths?
I'm not talking about mental illnesses. I'm talking about all humans as a whole. Normal everyday humans.
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@Sir.Lancelot
I'm open to the possibility. Just be aware, I will need long argument times due to my work schedule. I would prefer a week per inning.
That being said, what proposition did you have in mind?
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@YouFound_Lxam
I'm not talking about mental illnesses. I'm talking about all humans as a whole. Normal everyday humans.
Sociopaths are normal everyday humans. You don't get to discount ~4.5% of the population because they break your argument.
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@SkepticalOne
Sociopaths are normal everyday humans. You don't get to discount ~4.5% of the population because they break your argument.
They are humans born with a mental disorder. They are not normal humans.
Mental disorder = not normal.
But even so, sociopaths do have a moral conscience, but it is weak. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
"A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it's weak. They may know that taking your money is wrong, and they might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop their behavior. Both lack empathy, the ability to stand in someone else’s shoes and understand how they feel."
They have a conscience, but it is weak. It still exists though.
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@SkepticalOne
I don't think the standard you prefer does that.
Already refuted. Best countries in the world are Christian countries.
The Bible contains plenty of god-condoned murder, rape, and even abortion.
And yet the safest and best countries in the world are Christian countries.
I really enjoy watching atheism refute itself. Another victory for the Bible.
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@SkepticalOne
Any requests for changes can be made prior to accepting the debate.
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@YouFound_Lxam
They are humans born with a mental disorder. They are not normal humans.
Mental issues are part of the human condition. 20% of humanity has mental issues every year.
A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it's weak
If by "basic moral conscience" you mean the conscience of a sociopath, then...uh...sure. This isn't doing a lot to support your conclusion though. Nor does it explain how a *normal* person's right and wrong are objective.
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@Best.Korea
You've neglected to address my refutation and argumentation. Feel free to try again. Link Otherwise, I have no time to waste on dishonest tactics and/or interlocutors.
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@SkepticalOne
You've neglected to address my refutation and argumentation.
No. Your arguments were refuted. Feel free to go back to your world of abortions. I have no intention to educate you, when you reject the truth. I can only pray that God shows you the path.
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@Best.Korea
What is a Christian Country?
Can you name one?
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@zedvictor4
What is a Christian Country?
Country with Christian majority.
Can you name one?
Sweden.